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Old 03-08-2012, 03:17 PM   #826
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I completely agree, there is not a reason in the world he would sign something like that. I was just pointing out the fact that whoever signs him is one big hit away from being set back as a franchise. It's sort of like what the Nets did over here in Jersey. Traded away the future to try and pick up Deron Williams and Dwight Howard this year. But the way its going to work out is that they are getting neither and have no draft picks left. Set back 4-5 years easily
Id be scared completely ****less having 20 mill in Peyton with Beadles and Franklin and a potentially gimpy Kuper pass blocking.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #827
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #828
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Id be scared completely ****less having 20 mill in Peyton with Beadles and Franklin and a potentially gimpy Kuper pass blocking.
we would have to institute a policy where Manning does nothing but 3 step drops and if the first two reads aren't open he throws it away

#protectourinvestment
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:39 PM   #829
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The exact opposite.. I HAVE watched him play and was very underwhelmed... and this was against weak defenses...

He is very polished and sophisticated in his skills but that really doesn't mean much. There are lots of guys who were very polished skill wise and stink in the NFL.
Then youre an idiot. He already goes through his progressions like a seasoned pro. Im a fan of Tebow, but he still locks on one guy and then gets nervous and looks around without really seeing anything.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #830
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And WTF does this have to do with me again?
You quote me that's what. I'm not quoting you till you quote me. I'm not calling you out. You are calling ME out. If Denver is in the top three like reported then there is a 33% chance Tebow isn't a Bronco. Calling me a fan police? Please! I see a team trying to do anything to get another QB to either replace Tebow or sit Tebow on the bench to learn (I see it as the first part). I am going by what I see the team doing because like with McD, I see the flags.
You seem to think I'm off my rocker by thinking this. I think you are blind by what the FO is doing or very least not wanting to see that the FO doesn't want Tebow around for whatever reason.

I called out TEBOW fans, you are a F'ing Broncos fan and I know the damn difference. I didn't lump you in there. You quoted me and acted like saying such.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:02 PM   #831
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Then youre an idiot. He already goes through his progressions like a seasoned pro. Im a fan of Tebow, but he still locks on one guy and then gets nervous and looks around without really seeing anything.
It's you that doesn't know what you are talking about... you think players that check down because they can't throw deep like Orton are better at reading defenses when they are just too chicken **** to try to throw deep.

You are making knee jerk reactions based on others telling you that Tebow sucks rather than realizing how good he really is and how DIFFERENT he is.. being different isn't a bad thing... but to small minded NFL people it is..

That is the ONLY thing Luck had over Tebow.. he is completely conventional.. but that really isn't a benefit.. it makes him ultra predictable just like Orton...

In college where his team had the advantage that might have been acceptable.. in the NFL he will have no advantage..

How will Luck be reading defenses when his line isn't protecting him like it was in college? Ask Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford about that...

Tebow played in the SEC where he dealt with that kind of pressure and still dominated.. ask John Brantley at UF....
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #832
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Peyton Manning will NOT sign an injury clause. There's no reason for him to.

He's going to jump back in to being one of, if not THE, highest paid QBs/players in the NFL on name alone with a large signing bonus and no injury clause.

Many many teams are willing to roll those dice and, looking at the body of work throughout his career, with good reason. Manning is, imo, far and away the GOAT (yeah yeah sucks for me to admit it too but he's much better than Elway ever was).

But hed be an idiot to sign here over teams with deeper rosters AND pockets and quite frankly, that is why it wont happen.
This was my initial feeling as well. I assumed a team like San Fran would get in the mix, and obviously that would be a very attrative destination. But, apparently, their GM as stated they aren't going to pursue him. From what's been written today, it sounds like Miami, Denver and Washington are the most serious pursuers. If that's true, then I think you can probably eliminate Washington because Peyton is not going to want to compete with baby brother for division titles. That would leave Miami and Denver. I said in another thread Miami probably has a better roster than ours, but consider the cap situations. We sit at around $50 million under, while Miami is about $16 million under. As you've correctly pointed out, Peyton is not going to give anyone a discount. If you figure his 2012 salary in the $12-$15 million range, that would put Miami right up against the cap and make it difficult to squeeze in other free agents to compliment him. On the other hand, we could pay him $15 million and still have ~$35 million to play around with. That would give us a distinct avantage in terms of what we can promise in the way of adding help. Of course, that's strictly from a cap perspective. That doesn't mean we would necessarily be willing to spend. However, I doubt we would make a serious push for Manning unless that was the plan. Whether or not we ultimately land Manning, it's encouraging to me that they are even pursuing him. They know what the financial cost is going to be, and so the fact that they are making that pursuit suggest they are willing to spend some real money this offseason.

Now, two other teams who could get involved are Seattle and Arizona. I could see Arizona being VERY attractive with their defense and of course the presence of Fitzgerald. But it remains to be seen how agressive they will be. They invested a good bit in Kolb, so they may be hesitant to chalk that up to a sunk cost at this point. Seattle has deep pockets with Paul Allen, so they could emerge as well, but I'm not sure that their roster is anymore attractive than ours. I guess if you count on Sidney Rice being healthy that would help, but he hasn't been healthy for a couple of seasons now.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:05 PM   #833
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I wonder why it is that you will literally not find a single professional scout or front office player evaluator that will agree with you that Tebow is a better prospect than Luck? Man, they all must know nothing. I guess only you are visionary enough to see the light.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #834
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It's you that doesn't know what you are talking about... you think players that check down because they can't throw deep like Orton are better at reading defenses when they are just too chicken **** to try to throw deep.

You are making knee jerk reactions based on others telling you that Tebow sucks rather than realizing how good he really is and how DIFFERENT he is.. being different isn't a bad thing... but to small minded NFL people it is..

That is the ONLY thing Luck had over Tebow.. he is completely conventional.. but that really isn't a benefit.. it makes him ultra predictable just like Orton...

In college where his team had the advantage that might have been acceptable.. in the NFL he will have no advantage..

How will Luck be reading defenses when his line isn't protecting him like it was in college? Ask Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford about that...

Tebow played in the SEC where he dealt with that kind of pressure and still dominated.. ask John Brantley at UF....
I'm a fan of tebow, but he's so far behind the game mentally. This is where he needs to improve most, because when he's confident of where he wants to go with the ball, he generally throws a nice ball. But much of the time he locks on his first read, and if thats covered, he looks around and panics.

Luck has a good arm, is extremely accurate, and has great football intelligence. You never know when you make the jump, but id be pretty surprised if Luck didnt have success on the next level.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #835
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I wonder why it is that you will literally not find a single professional scout or front office player evaluator that will agree with you that Tebow is a better prospect than Luck? Man, they all must know nothing. I guess only you are visionary enough to see the light.
Name me one talent evaluator that said Tebow could outplay Orton last season....

Yet he blew his ass out of the water...

Tebow is arguably the most unconventional QB in NFL history in comparison to the standard of the time.

People have it completely backward when they believe that Tebow is a "project".. he may be a "project" but not anywhere NEAR what it is conventionally considered to be.. Tebow is a project that is GUARANTEED to be a success.. because he DOMINATED at every level even being unpolished.

Guys like Luck were POLISHED..and couldn't accomplish what Tebow did unpolished...

NFL people are STUPID.. they can't understand something that is outside their frame of reference... and people are afraid to go against "conventional wisdom"

And for some reason when a player hasn't shown any weaknesses they are viewed as some flawless god. Just like Cam Newton coming off one great season in college. If he had stayed another year and had a weak team around him and looked like crap he likely would have dropped in the draft just like Locker did... If Luck played in the SEC the same would have happened to him.. but he didn't so it's as if he has no flaws and is perfect.. it's a fantasy world..

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:20 PM   #836
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This was my initial feeling as well. I assumed a team like San Fran would get in the mix, and obviously that would be a very attrative destination. But, apparently, their GM as stated they aren't going to pursue him. From what's been written today, it sounds like Miami, Denver and Washington are the most serious pursuers. If that's true, then I think you can probably eliminate Washington because Peyton is not going to want to compete with baby brother for division titles. That would leave Miami and Denver. I said in another thread Miami probably has a better roster than ours, but consider the cap situations. We sit at around $50 million under, while Miami is about $16 million under. As you've correctly pointed out, Peyton is not going to give anyone a discount. If you figure his 2012 salary in the $12-$15 million range, that would put Miami right up against the cap and make it difficult to squeeze in other free agents to compliment him. On the other hand, we could pay him $15 million and still have ~$35 million to play around with. That would give us a distinct avantage in terms of what we can promise in the way of adding help. Of course, that's strictly from a cap perspective. That doesn't mean we would necessarily be willing to spend. However, I doubt we would make a serious push for Manning unless that was the plan. Whether or not we ultimately land Manning, it's encouraging to me that they are even pursuing him. They know what the financial cost is going to be, and so the fact that they are making that pursuit suggest they are willing to spend some real money this offseason.

Now, two other teams who could get involved are Seattle and Arizona. I could see Arizona being VERY attractive with their defense and of course the presence of Fitzgerald. But it remains to be seen how agressive they will be. They invested a good bit in Kolb, so they may be hesitant to chalk that up to a sunk cost at this point. Seattle has deep pockets with Paul Allen, so they could emerge as well, but I'm not sure that their roster is anymore attractive than ours. I guess if you count on Sidney Rice being healthy that would help, but he hasn't been healthy for a couple of seasons now.
I think with our cap room we could make our WR way better then Miami. IMO there are quite a few talented WR's out there to mix with Decker and Thomas.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:21 PM   #837
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Come down off the ledge McGruder it will be alright as soon as you accept that Tebow just isn't that good
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:24 PM   #838
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I think with our cap room we could make our WR way better then Miami. IMO there are quite a few talented WR's out there to mix with Decker and Thomas.
True. Thomas and Decker were both inconsistent last season, with Decker having a strong start and underwhelming finish, and Thomas ending the season on a big note. A lot of folks mention pairing Reggie Wayne with Manning, but don't forget about Pierre Garcon. He's a FA, too, and he put up similar numbers to Wayne this season, is significantly younger, and may be cheaper as well. Throw him into the mix, and I think that has the potential be to be a good, young WR trio.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #839
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Name me one talent evaluator that said Tebow could outplay Orton last season....

Yet he blew his ass out of the water...

Tebow is arguably the most unconventional QB in NFL history in comparison to the standard of the time.

People have it completely backward when they believe that Tebow is a "project".. he may be a "project" nut not anywhere NEAR what it is conventional considered to be.. Tebow is a project that is GUARANTEED to be a success.. because he DOMINATED at every level even being unpolished.

Guys like Luck were POLISHED..and couldn't accomplish what Tebow did unpolished...

NFL people are STUPID.. they can't understand something that is outside their frame of reference... and people are afraid to go against "conventional wisdom"

And for some reason when a player hasn't shown any weaknesses they are viewed as some flawless god. Just like Cam Newton coming off one great season in college. If he had stayed another year and had a weak team around him and looked like crap he likely would have dropped in the draft just like Locker did... If Luck played in the SEC the same would have happened to him.. but he didn't so it's as if he has no flaws and is perfect.. it's a fantasy world..
You just changed my mind. I want Manning now. Please GTFO.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #840
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Now, two other teams who could get involved are Seattle and Arizona. I could see Arizona being VERY attractive with their defense and of course the presence of Fitzgerald. But it remains to be seen how agressive they will be. They invested a good bit in Kolb, so they may be hesitant to chalk that up to a sunk cost at this point. Seattle has deep pockets with Paul Allen, so they could emerge as well, but I'm not sure that their roster is anymore attractive than ours. I guess if you count on Sidney Rice being healthy that would help, but he hasn't been healthy for a couple of seasons now.
To add to this, I just checked out the cap numbers for Arizona and Seattle.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...9798.htmlstory

Arizona is just $10,262,234 under, so they might have to do some maneuvering to fit Manning under, then they probably wouldn't be left with much to pursue other free agents. Seattle sits at $31,535,388 under, so they could be a seriously player if they choose to be.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #841
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Come down off the ledge McGruder it will be alright as soon as you accept that Tebow just isn't that good
You got it wrong dude.. IF Elway pulls the trigger on manning I will laugh my ass off for years. He will become the Michael Jordan of NFL executives..

Manning won't last a week behind the Broncos line. The run game and defense will disappear without Tebow and you will see this team for what it really is.

Tebow will go to another team with a real coach and will show how great he really use and how horribly under utilized he was in Denver...
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #842
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True. Thomas and Decker were both inconsistent last season, with Decker having a strong start and underwhelming finish, and Thomas ending the season on a big note. A lot of folks mention pairing Reggie Wayne with Manning, but don't forget about Pierre Garcon. He's a FA, too, and he put up similar numbers to Wayne this season, is significantly younger, and may be cheaper as well. Throw him into the mix, and I think that has the potential be to be a good, young WR trio.
Colston is a FA, Llyod (hehe), Vincent Jackson, Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson (kind of a sleeper), Robert Meachem, and Braylon Edwards are all out there as well as Wayne and Garcon. I'm not sure the Phins can add as much talent as we could. If Elway told Manning tell me who you want and we will go get him I'm sure that would help us out a bunch.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #843
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You just changed my mind. I want Manning now. Please GTFO.
Perfect.. that is exactly what I want to happen. Elway and Fox will bench him for some other Ortonesque vet even if Manning isn't there anyway. Getting traded is the best thing that could happen to Tebow..
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #844
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Colston is a FA, Llyod (hehe), Vincent Jackson, Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson (kind of a sleeper), Robert Meachem, and Braylon Edwards are all out there as well as Wayne and Garcon. I'm not sure the Phins can add as much talent as we could. If Elway told Manning tell me who you want and we will go get him I'm sure that would help us out a bunch.
Yep, there is a lot of depth at WR in this years FA class. I was specifically thinking of Garcon because he already has a report established with Manning.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #845
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You got it wrong dude.. IF Elway pulls the trigger on manning I will laugh my ass off for years. He will become the Michael Jordan of NFL executives..

Manning won't last a week behind the Broncos line. The run game and defense will disappear without Tebow and you will see this team for what it really is.

Tebow will go to another team with a real coach and will show how great he really use and how horribly under utilized he was in Denver...
Not hardly
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #846
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Perfect.. that is exactly what I want to happen. Elway and Fox will bench him for some other Ortonesque vet even if Manning isn't there anyway. Getting traded is the best thing that could happen to Tebow..
I hope you die in a fire bro.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #847
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #848
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I hope you die in a fire bro.
That's exactly what is happening to this team under Elway.. Tebow just masks the stink.. You saw the reality before Tebow started.. far worse than under Mcd...
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #849
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That's exactly what is happening to this team under Elway.. Tebow just masks the stink.. You saw the reality before Tebow started.. far worse than under Mcd...
What planet are you from? I forgot.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:45 PM   #850
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Yep, there is a lot of depth at WR in this years FA class. I was specifically thinking of Garcon because he already has a report established with Manning.
Yeah, I also like the idea of a one year rental of Saturday to replace that turd we have at C. Move Franklin to LG and hope that Harris is back to form. Clady, Franklin, Saturday, Kuper, and Harris should be more then enough to keep Manning safe.
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