Statement on offensive comments(Jeremy Lin)

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Drunk Monkey

wtf are you talking about. The editor is the check and balance.

my bad, I thought Frederico wrote the article and title of the article. Either way, it was a bad analogy IMO.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Yeah, I'm sure this guy meant it as a racial slur.

this doesn't change the fact that it was a bad analogy, and I've stated that Frederico maybe a scapegoat.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

this doesn't change the fact that it was a bad analogy, and I've stated that Frederico maybe a scapegoat.

Correct, and the guy in the picture got suspended, not fired.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Correct, and the guy in the picture got suspended, not fired.

Well the point mostly was that it's very possible to use that phrase without considering the racial connotation of the word "Chink"

I mean if a guy with a wife and child of Asian descent can throw it out there without a second thought... what does that say about anyone else?

And on the flip side, what if the other guy had a really good Taiwanese friend in high school... off the hook? Doesn't this start to get stupid? When they talked to the guy before firing him, did they ask "Have you ever dated any Asians or anything? If not, we're going to have to let you go."

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

OK so lets assume that the guy wasn't trying to be "punny." Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, it's still an incredible stupid mistake to make. It's such an incredibly stupid mistake, that as an editor I would question whether or not I would want to continue to employee him. Every copy editor, managing editor, and layout person that I know would immediately recognize a "chink" headline juxtaposed with a Jeremy ****ing Lin story is a bad idea. There's a scene in the movie Casino where Ace Rothstein fires the county commissioner's nephew after three slots hit jackpots within 5 minutes of each other.

To me this is one of those situations. "Either you were in on it, or you were too ****ing stupid to know what was going on. Either way, I can't have you working here anymore."

I think the model of copy editors puffing stogies all night thinking over the layout of the mornin' paper isn't quite what we're dealing with here. Web news is instant. On the web, deliberation is sacrificed daily on the altar of immediate feedback. The idea that anyone had to think about this for more than 5 minutes before putting it online is antiquated.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

I think the model of copy editors puffing stogies all night thinking over the layout of the mornin' paper isn't quite what we're dealing with here. Web news is instant. On the web, deliberation is sacrificed daily on the altar of immediate feedback. The idea that anyone had to think about this for more than 5 minutes before putting it online is antiquated.

It's still the difference between live television and posting web content. That's a big difference.

The guy who got suspended used the phrase last week, so I think that's a bit of an overreaction on ESPN's part. But when you're in the business of making money, it's necessary.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by houghtam

It's still the difference between live television and posting web content. That's a big difference..

Not when it comes to whether the idea even occurs to you. If you're not familiar enough with the connotation of 'Chink' to say it off the cuff, it's not likely you're going to second-guess yourself a few minutes later.

I don't think 'Chink' in the racial sense is really all that commonly used anymore.

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

I think the model of copy editors puffing stogies all night thinking over the layout of the mornin' paper isn't quite what we're dealing with here. Web news is instant. On the web, deliberation is sacrificed daily on the altar of immediate feedback. The idea that anyone had to think about this for more than 5 minutes before putting it online is antiquated.

Have you worked in journalism? No offense, but I can tell from your post that you really have no idea what you're talking about. Many papers are dailies, which means that they have 3 or 4 editions (state, metro, final and extra) or something along those lines, which are produced late into the night.

You can tell which edition you have by the number of stars or dots underneath the mast or title. The final edition of a sports page has really tight deadlines as writers create multiple "write-thrus" or updated versions of their stories throughout the night. With the late night games, you often have very little time to put the paper together (minutes) in order to get all of the late night games, box scores and photos in the paper before it goes to the floor to be produced.

Long story short, I don't know of any journalist, editor, or layout person (print, electronic or otherwise), that wouldn't instantly recognize the inherent stupidity of having a "Chink" headline with an Asian centerpiece photo. This is especially true given the fact that Lin is probably the most googled athlete in the world right now.

I think the guy was trying to sneak one late night punny headline in to be funny, it got through and it bit him in the ass.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

Have you worked in journalism? No offense, but I can tell from your post that you really have no idea what you're talking about. Many papers are dailies, which means that they have 3 or 4 editions (state, metro, final and extra) or something along those lines, which are produced late into the night.

You can tell which edition you have by the number of stars or dots underneath the mast or title. The final edition of a sports page has really tight deadlines as writers create multiple "write-thrus" or updated versions of their stories throughout the night. With the late night games, you often have very little time to put the paper together (minutes) in order to get all of the late night games, box scores and photos in the paper before it goes to the floor to be produced.

Long story short, I don't know of any journalist, editor, or layout person (print, electronic or otherwise), that wouldn't instantly recognize the inherent stupidity of having a "Chink" headline with an Asian centerpiece photo. This is especially true given the fact that Lin is probably the most googled athlete in the world right now.

I think the guy was trying to sneak one late night punny headline in to be funny and it bit him in the ass.

lolz at the idea that you need to be a professional journalist to understand how posting news instantaneously to the web has handicapped the role of the editor.

I can find plenty of professional opinion on that if you'd like. Let me know. Until then, we'll just roll with the common sense of it all. If a guy with an Asian wife and baby at home can throw it out there and not think twice about it, and then sit there for a few minutes and still not have it even occur to him... really no different than a web editor throwing up a headline on a sports website.

Should he have caught it? Probably. Do people make mistakes? Pretty much every day. I said he should probably be suspended. But it makes no sense to can the guy. Lin said it was no big deal. Chalk it up to lesson learned and move on.

Next up, should the MSG Lin Fortune Cookie guy get the axe?!?!

[schaaf]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Not when it comes to whether the idea even occurs to you. If you're not familiar enough with the connotation of 'Chink' to say it off the cuff, it's not likely you're going to second-guess yourself a few minutes later.

I don't think 'Chink' in the racial sense is really all that commonly used anymore.

I thought everyone used (mod note: let's just not use that word, 'k?) now

[fdf]

Originally Posted by Shananahan

There's no way whoever wrote that headline was oblivious to the double meaning it carried, and they absolutely should have been dismissed for doing so. I mean, it's funny and I would high-five them for trying, but that's definitely a terminable offense.

Maybe it shouldn't be.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

lolz at the idea that you need to be a professional journalist to understand how posting news instantaneously to the web has handicapped the role of the editor.

I can find plenty of professional opinion on that if you'd like. Let me know. Until then, we'll just roll with the common sense of it all. If a guy with an Asian wife and baby at home can throw it out there and not think twice about it, and then sit there for a few minutes and still not have it even occur to him... really no different than a web editor throwing up a headline on a sports website.

Should he have caught it? Probably. Do people make mistakes? Pretty much every day. I said he should probably be suspended. But it makes no sense to can the guy. Lin said it was no big deal. Chalk it up to lesson learned and move on.

Next up, should the MSG Lin Fortune Cookie guy get the axe?!?!

at the idea of "your professional opinion doesn't count until I can get backup, and until then we'll use my opinion because I think it's common sense."

Sorry chum, you're out of your element, and you're arguing because you seem to think it's not a big deal to use that word in the context of a news story about an Asian guy.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

lolz at the idea that you need to be a professional journalist to understand how posting news instantaneously to the web has handicapped the role of the editor.

I can find plenty of professional opinion on that if you'd like. Let me know. Until then, we'll just roll with the common sense of it all. If a guy with an Asian wife and baby at home can throw it out there and not think twice about it, and then sit there for a few minutes and still not have it even occur to him... really no different than a web editor throwing up a headline on a sports website.

Should he have caught it? Probably. Do people make mistakes? Pretty much every day. I said he should probably be suspended. But it makes no sense to can the guy. Lin said it was no big deal. Chalk it up to lesson learned and move on.

Next up, should the MSG Lin Fortune Cookie guy get the axe?!?!

Your posts are starting to make you look like a ****ing idiot.

There's a huge difference between a group reviewed editorial headline and a talent sitting infront of a teleprompter reading almost line for line into the camera, or occasionally, verbatim from the direction of producers and directors in the broadcast studio/booth/truck.

I have in the past worked in both industries, and my professional opinion is that you're looking really bad arguing for the headline writer.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by schaaf

I thought everyone used (mod note: let's not use this word, 'k?) now

Nope. (mod note: How 'bout "let's not use this one either, 'k?) is the new phrase of the day.

BTW, where is Carmelo15 since this is an obvious racist thread?

[Shananahan]

Originally Posted by fdf

Maybe it shouldn't be.

Why not? It doesn't matter if it really was an accident or if that's merely what he's claiming afterward, you have to have a standard of journalistic professionalism and quality when you're in that business and the size of ESPN.

You can't just let one guy slide for a mistake, because in the process you'd be leaving the door open for all kinds of other reporters to do the same and make your company and your brand look worse for it.

[Cleo McDowell]

Originally Posted by bendog

That's all very nice, but did the Taiwanese come across the Yalu River at Chosin and kill about ten thousand marines? We ain't got nothing 'gainst no Taiwanese. The Chinese were lethal.

Taiwanians aren't chinese! End of story

why the * * * * is the use of this word being thrown around so lightly?

And why is racism towards Asians "funny" and the use of the n word a death sentence.

By the way--- The word chink is offensive to Asians outside of china-- Korean Americans, Japanese Americans etc.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Cleo McDowell

why the * * * * is the use of this word being thrown around so lightly?

And why is racism towards Asians "funny" and the use of the n word a death sentence.

By the way--- The word chink is offensive to Asians outside of china-- Korean Americans, Japanese Americans etc.

Thank you. The people who've just thrown that word around in this thread, as well as the R = L jokers should be banned.

[Cleo McDowell]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I wouldn't say there's no way. It's pretty unlikely, but I'm sure there are people in the world who are naive enough to make such a mistake. I mean I know that 'chink' is a racial slur, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it in person. So I can imagine there are people who have never heard it all. But it does seem rather unlikely.

I have been called chink a number of times growing up in Denver. To Asian Americans, yes, being called chink or gook is as offensive and as hurtful as it is calling a black man ****er

[Cleo McDowell]

Excellent work around here, mods.

[Cleo McDowell]

Originally Posted by LongDongJohnson

--post was unacceptable--

Disgusting.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by Cleo McDowell

Excellent work around here, mods.

lol!

Sorry that we weren't patrolling this thread at 1:05 AM.

Oh wait, apparently I ended up here.

Anyway, that last guy was definitely over the top.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by Cleo McDowell

why the * * * * is the use of this word being thrown around so lightly?

And why is racism towards Asians "funny" and the use of the n word a death sentence.

By the way--- The word chink is offensive to Asians outside of china-- Korean Americans, Japanese Americans etc.

Again, the only acceptable usage for the word "chink" on the OrangeMane is in the context of " a gap in masonry or armor". It shouldn't have to be spelled out that demeaning other posters on the basis of race is unacceptable.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by houghtam

at the idea of "your professional opinion doesn't count until I can get backup, and until then we'll use my opinion because I think it's common sense."

Sorry chum, you're out of your element, and you're arguing because you seem to think it's not a big deal to use that word in the context of a news story about an Asian guy.

I've read many professional opinions on how the rise of the web has destroyed the journalistic process as we once knew it, and how journalism needs to adjust to the new realities. And I wouldn't trust the judgement of anyone who says otherwise, because it's obvious on its face.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/..._the_armor.php

That was a bad headline. So was "Death Calls Nibs Price," the actual head for an obit featuring a photo of Price on the phone. But, years later, we can laugh about that. We won't be laughing at any "chink in the armor" headlines now or in the foreseeable future. Federico, who has become the Steve Bartman of headline writers, isn't going to be in a funny mood for a long time yet.

Speaking of which, despite condemnations from bloviating politicians, it stretches credulity to imagine this headline was a deliberate attempt at humor. It's a lot easier to imagine a late-shift editor inadvertently writing a racially charged headline at 2:30 a.m. than carefully plotting out surefire career suicide. In that manner, l'affaire d' Chink in the Armor harks to the 1999 ****ardly Incident.

You may recall that one. A bit over a decade ago, David Howard -- an overly erudite aide to Washington, D.C. mayor Anthony Williams -- used the term "****ardly" during a public meeting when discussing a fund's meager budget.

This was, technically, apropos: "****ardly" essentially means "stingy." But for Howard, who is white, to use this term in mixed company was unwise and unnecessary. He should have just said "stingy."

Howard resigned, and Williams -- under heavy political pressure -- accepted his resignation. However, in a rare instance of everything really working out in the end, the media and general public overreacted to this overreaction, and Williams was successfully pressured to hire Howard back.

Don't expect a similarly neat resolution for Federico. It remains far-fetched to allege that a professional editor for a straitlaced company like ESPN would actually attempt to slip a horribly offensive racial pun into a headline and expect to remain gainfully employed. But obliviously doing so is still a firing offense. It's kind of like saying "bomb" in an airport.

The dizzying rapidity of what we used to quaintly call "The Information Superhighway" has made it easier than ever to foul up one's life's work with the click of a button. Sadly, Federico was driving a Corvair on this highway -- unsafe at any speed.

[BroncoBeavis]

The thing y'all need to remember is we're not talking about just the word 'Chink" What did we all learn in High School English class?

Context is everything.

"Chink in the armor" is a popular idiom used to describe a concept that can be otherwise difficult to put into words (without writing a paragraph) It's used in sports constantly, and had a logical use in this case, as demonstrated by the guy with the Asian wife and baby using it to describe the exact same scenario.

Could it have been meant as a pun? Sure. But it could also have been an innocent mistake. The guy said it was. He apologized. Lin accepted. Only the grievancemongers still care.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

The thing y'all need to remember is we're not talking about just the word 'Chink" What did we all learn in High School English class?

Context is everything.

"Chink in the armor" is a popular idiom used to describe a concept that can be otherwise difficult to put into words (without writing a paragraph) It's used in sports constantly, and had a logical use in this case, as demonstrated by the guy with the Asian wife and baby using it to describe the exact same scenario.

Could it have been meant as a pun? Sure. But it could also have been an innocent mistake. The guy said it was. He apologized. Lin accepted. Only the grievancemongers still care.

If a man makes a crude joke to a woman in the presence of someone else, he can (and most likely will) be fired for sexual harrassment, even if the woman he said it to says it's no problem. The guy wasn't fired because he was insensitive to Lin, he was fired because he was insensitive to Asians.

The "it was an accident" excuse doesn't really hold water in a business setting, either. If I accidentally take $20 home from work, I can be fired, even if I bring it back the next day, and in that case, no one else was affected.

ESPN made the correct business decision in doing what it did. I don't think you can dispute that, given the potential backlash that could happen if they had done otherwise. I'm also of the opinion that they made the correct moral decision, and while you can debate that, I don't think you'll find a whole heck of a lot (outside some of the people in this thread) who agree with you.