Catholics under attack now

[Bronx33]

Obama thugs are stepping into secular waters here i am just in awe of this clowns actions the first amendment just got trampled on.

U.S. army/Obama prevented Catholic Chaplains from reading bishop's pastoral letter at mass

The U.S. Army prevented Catholic chaplains in the military services from reading a pastoral letter from their bishop at all masses on Sunday, January 29, in violation of the rights to freedom of speech and freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution.



The letter from the Catholic Archbishop for Military Services, Timothy Broglio, called for resistance to the Obama administration’s policy directive that requires most employer health-insurance plans in the United States to include provision for contraceptives – including sterilization and abortifacient drugs. The administration presents this provision as part of a worker’s

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Obama thugs are stepping into secular waters here i am just in awe of this clowns actions the first amendment just got trampled on.

U.S. army/Obama prevented Catholic Chaplains from reading bishop's pastoral letter at mass

The U.S. Army prevented Catholic chaplains in the military services from reading a pastoral letter from their bishop at all masses on Sunday, January 29, in violation of the rights to freedom of speech and freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution.



The letter from the Catholic Archbishop for Military Services, Timothy Broglio, called for resistance to the Obama administration’s policy directive that requires most employer health-insurance plans in the United States to include provision for contraceptives – including sterilization and abortifacient drugs. The administration presents this provision as part of a worker’s

Secular?? Those are the Catholic church's positions on birth control.

[Bronx33]

read the link

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

read the link

And?? It's still not secular!

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

And?? It's still not secular!

Come on dude you're going to target that one word its how i looked at this attack on the 1st amendment.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Come on dude you're going to target that one word its how i looked at this attack on the 1st amendment.

It's your statement and it distorts what is happening.

If the Catholic Church wants to object, I'm fine with that. But don't claim......

Obama thugs are stepping into secular waters

It's not remotely accurate.

[Bronco Yoda]

If Religion is going to continue to play politics, then they should ALL lose their tax exempt status.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

It's your statement and it distorts what is happening.

If the Catholic Church wants to object, I'm fine with that. But don't claim......



It's not remotely accurate.

Color me shocked!

Just call Bronx33 "MiniDrama."

[Fedaykin]

When the real violation of the Constitution (government supported religion in the military -- which is what Chaplains are) is addressed properly I'll give a ****.

Politically motivated speech is the issue here anyway, not religious speech. Chaplains can and will be slapped down when they attempt to engage in politically motivated speech.

If the religious folks don't want the military giving them orders, they should not be a part of the military -- it's that simple.

[lonestar]

Tough crowd.

To bad come nov you'll be singing a different tune.

Well maybe next Jan. It will take that long to get this hypocrite out of the oval office.

And please do not bring the separation of powers crap up. Because we all know that the Consitution says the government will not establish a state religion. That is all. Nothing about separating the two.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Tough crowd.

To bad come nov you'll be singing a different tune.

Well maybe next Jan. It will take that long to get this hypocrite out of the oval office.

And please do not bring the separation of powers crap up. Because we all know that the Consitution says the government will not establish a state religion. That is all. Nothing about separating the two.

Jefferson would disagree with your interpretation of the 1st -- and frankly he carries just a wee bit more weight than you do.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Jefferson would disagree with your interpretation of the 1st -- and frankly he carries just a wee bit more weight than you do.

Yep but he is about the only one. And if you read it you would also..

RIF

[Rigs11]

They removed Jefferson from text books in Texas,because he was an evil liburl.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Yep but he is about the only one. And if you read it you would also..

RIF

Literally centuries of case law, supreme court decisions and other precedent that agrees with Jefferson and the concept of separation show that, once again, you're just proving what an idiot you are.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

If Religion is going to continue to play politics, then they should ALL lose their tax exempt status.

I agree they should. But seperation of church and state works both ways. The government cannot force a church to ignore a core teaching to obey federal laws and guidelines.

Poor move by the feds.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Literally centuries of case law, supreme court decisions and other precedent that agrees with Jefferson and the concept of separation show that, once again, you're just proving what an idiot you are.

And all of it based on a single letter from Jefferson to a church and the ruling of an anti-Catholic federal judge.

I think both sides of that issue are a bit too much gung ho about it. There is a place for religion in the public sphere. Most people in this country are religious to some extent. Their religions shape their political views. There is no harm in aknowledging that fact. There is also no harm in realizing that religion and politics is not a healthy mix for republican government. Religion should have an advisory role, and nothing more in shaping laws for everyone to live under.

I'm thinking Jefferson would have fallen in the middle on the issue. He would agree with the no mixing of the federal government and the endorsement of religion, but would have supported states endorsing religion. And I say that because originally that is how it was intended. Things change though.

That's my opinion, anyway.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

And all of it based on a single letter from Jefferson to a church and the ruling of an anti-Catholic federal judge.

Not at all true. It's actually James Madison (the primary contributor of both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as similar documents for the various states) that championed the cause -- a cause he was supported in by Jefferson.

Jefferson just happened to be the guy that coined the actual phrase commonly used to describe the concept. Madison generally phrased it as the "separation between Religion and Government".

For example:

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."

- James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments

Note he's talking not about just the concept, but the fact that it is part of the Constitution (which he should know being the primary contributor).

By the way, the "Ecclesiastical Bodies" mentioned are various sects of the Christian Religion.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

I agree they should. But seperation of church and state works both ways. The government cannot force a church to ignore a core teaching to obey federal laws and guidelines.

Poor move by the feds.

Let be clear, the Federal Government is not "forcing" the Church to ignore a "core" belief. The ruling simple states that those organization (with or not they are affiliated with the Church) that offer health care, can not have their health care plan limit access to birth control or other medical operations found in majority of health insurance plans. In 28 states today which have similar laws on the book, the Church affiliated organization have complied without a fuss.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by elsid13

Let be clear, the Federal Government is not "forcing" the Church to ignore a "core" belief. The ruling simple states that those organization (with or not they are affiliated with the Church) that offer health care, can not have their health care plan limit access to birth control or other medical operations found in majority of health insurance plans. In 28 states today which have similar laws on the book, the Church affiliated organization have complied without a fuss.

You mean the entire premise of the thread turned out to be bullsh*t?

Color me shocked!

[Rohirrim]

One need only travel first hand through a few of the Catholic dominated countries, like Haiti, Mexico and the Philippines and see the massive overpopulation and misery of the poor and then realize they are held down by the church's medieval birth control policies. Then they come to the same conclusion that I do: **** the Catholic Church.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Best discussion on this by far to date:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/304319-1


When you have shameful Catholic Obama honks, US Bishops, devout rank and file Catholics, Cafeteria Catholics, Greek Orthodox, non-Catholic Democrats and liberals, and even *gulp* Rick Warren uniting in opposition, you've got a problem.

The President is obstinate and deluded by his own arrogance to admit fault here but he will never consider rescinding this lawless rule before the election because he's solely about politics. He'll talk about extension of deadlines, waiver possibilities, and even posture with more 'my way or the highway' rhetoric to his demented base.

When you can't get Doug Kmiec to vote for you again, you can imagine the backlash from the common Catholics that may think your pants crease is nice but your deliberate poking of them--and their faith--with a stick means holding their nose and voting against you. Like most things, this administration badly misread the tea leaves on this. The fact that it effects mainly Catholics is hardly the point. Nor is the fact that Catholics report using contraception equally as much as non-religious. Dig deeper.

[Rohirrim]

Obama is simply upholding fundamental constitutional principles.

[W*GS]

Easy solution for the Catholic church. Get out of the healthcare business.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Easy solution for the Catholic church. Get out of the healthcare business.

Exactly.

[Spider]

not sure where I stand on this ............