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Old 02-02-2012, 04:24 PM   #451
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Harder schedule + more wins = worse team. You argue this as you call others stupid...
You are stupid because that's not what Sagarin says. There are more factors than SOS and W/L. I've clearly stated this multiple times.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:27 PM   #452
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I'm still waiting though, Tony.
I'll answer your question when you respond to one of my first questions in this thread: how many NFL FO's do you think would take Tebow over Newton? You're trying to get around this salient question, just like you're trying to get around the point that just because Tebow won more games than Newton doesn't make him the better QB.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:51 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
I'll answer your question when you respond to one of my first questions in this thread: how many NFL FO's do you think would take Tebow over Newton? You're trying to get around this salient question, just like you're trying to get around the point that just because Tebow won more games than Newton doesn't make him the better QB.
I haven't dodged ANY questions. Answer: The majority of them, if not all. Also, its Tebow's superior work ethic, leadership and, most importantly, his mental faculties that make him a MUCH better QB than Cam.

Your turn. I'm still very excited for your "answer".
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:53 PM   #454
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I haven't dodged ANY questions. Answer: The majority of them, if not all. Also, its Tebow's superior work ethic, leadership and, most importantly, his mental faculties that make him a MUCH better QB than Cam.

Your turn. I'm still very excited for your "answer".
Yeah, I'd say a third or so would take Tebow, just because of character issues. It's one thing to have a selfish WR with an attitude problem. They're a dime a dozen.

But to have your team led by a diva. There's some real long-term headaches there.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:58 PM   #455
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Answer: The majority of them, if not all.
You can't really believe this. Come on, Rev. You know this isn't true.

And you don't need me to answer that question. If an NFL FO was evaluating Tebow and Newton the number one thing they would look at would be throwing ability. Can the guy make the throws? If the answer is yes, you put him in a system, you surround him with talent, and if it works wins come with it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:59 PM   #456
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Yeah, I'd say a third or so would take Tebow, just because of character issues.
Now that's a much more realistic estimate, although I suspect still too high. Completely agree with the rest of your post.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:59 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
I'll answer your question when you respond to one of my first questions in this thread: how many NFL FO's do you think would take Tebow over Newton? You're trying to get around this salient question, just like you're trying to get around the point that just because Tebow won more games than Newton doesn't make him the better QB.
This question you value so much has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. I suspect that the FOs that value pretty spirals would want Newton, while the FOs that value leadership, hard work, and the ability to take care of the ball would want Tebow. I imagine the numbers would be pretty lopsided.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:03 PM   #458
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I suspect that the FOs that value pretty spirals would want Newton, while the FOs that value leadership, hard work, and the ability to take care of the ball would want Tebow.
Everybody values those things, yes. But most FO's are arrogant enough to believe they can get past character concerns. It's talent first, though. And Newton's character concerns aren't remotely large enough to get past that talent.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:09 PM   #459
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You can't really believe this. Come on, Rev. You know this isn't true.

And you don't need me to answer that question. If an NFL FO was evaluating Tebow and Newton the number one thing they would look at would be throwing ability. Can the guy make the throws? If the answer is yes, you put him in a system, you surround him with talent, and if it works wins come with it.
Shhh... Listen close..

Hear that? That was the sound of the last shred of respect I had for you flying away...

You've become an absolute joke and just a parody of your east coast media exposure. "You didn't answer the way I wanted to so wah! And I'm not capable of answering this question because I only pretend to know avout football and parrot what howard eskin and espn say!"

You've gone out of your way to avoid any actual football discussion. The only logical conclusion: Gtfo douchebag. You belong there in philly.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:35 PM   #460
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Imagine how the reaction will be Tebow played like Orton or cutler..
Idiots..Always complaining..
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:54 PM   #461
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You are stupid because that's not what Sagarin says. There are more factors than SOS and W/L. I've clearly stated this multiple times.
No, you are stupid for using rating that use more than what I just said. Their rating says exactly what I posted. Anything else they use to validate that stupidity, is exactly what makes them dumb.

Harder schedule + more wins = worse team

Go ahead and keep claiming it doesn't say that. We know you are an idiot.

You still aren't explaining what QBs have to do with this equation. I like how you try to argue w/l records aren't all on the QB as you turn my team argument into a QB argument...
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:08 PM   #462
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Newton having 1.5x the int % seems like a pretty big difference to me.
Yeah, I suppose one could look at it that way. Dare I say there are other factors involved? Like sack %?
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:23 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
This question you value so much has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. I suspect that the FOs that value pretty spirals would want Newton, while the FOs that value leadership, hard work, and the ability to take care of the ball would want Tebow. I imagine the numbers would be pretty lopsided.
I'm sorry, but every FO guy in the NFL would take Newton over Tebow right now. Doesn't mean they'd be correct to do so in the long run, but that's the case.

Newton accounted for 35 TD's as a rookie. 35 TD's. 21 TD passes, 14 rushing TD's. Two fumbles lost, 17 INT's. That's a great ratio for a rookie. 19 turnovers, 35 TD's scored.

We'll see how the two pan out over the next decade, but the percentages tend toward Newton right now.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:39 PM   #464
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Newton accounted for 35 TD's as a rookie. 35 TD's. 21 TD passes, 14 rushing TD's.
For some reason you really have to work to convince these guys that it's about scoring TD's.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #465
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You've gone out of your way to avoid any actual football discussion.
Okay, talk some football and tell us why/how Tebow is better than Newton. And how a majority of NFL FO's would take Tebow over Newton.

This isn't about east coast bias or Philly sports talk radio. This is about objectivity and reality. Which is why there isn't any controversy in Charlotte about the QB position like there is in Denver.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:48 PM   #466
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You still aren't explaining what QBs have to do with this equation. I like how you try to argue w/l records aren't all on the QB as you turn my team argument into a QB argument...
Huh? Why don't you stop chasing your tail and go back to my very first post where I brought Sagarin into the discussion.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:55 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
I'm sorry, but every FO guy in the NFL would take Newton over Tebow right now. Doesn't mean they'd be correct to do so in the long run, but that's the case.

Newton accounted for 35 TD's as a rookie. 35 TD's. 21 TD passes, 14 rushing TD's. Two fumbles lost, 17 INT's. That's a great ratio for a rookie. 19 turnovers, 35 TD's scored.

We'll see how the two pan out over the next decade, but the percentages tend toward Newton right now.
Tebow has also started 16 games, and his TD/TOs are 32/16. To save you the math, that's better than Newton's ratio.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:56 PM   #468
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Check out these comparisons: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

----------------------------------------------------

We asked one starting player from 30 teams (we didnít pursue a vote from Carolina or Denver for obvious reasons) this question: Who will finish with more NFL victories in his career, Newton or Tebow?

RESULTS

Newton: 25 votes
Tebow: 5 votes

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...#ixzz1lHPURrqw

Last edited by TonyR; 02-02-2012 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:07 PM   #469
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Check out these comparisons: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

----------------------------------------------------

We asked one starting player from 30 teams (we didnít pursue a vote from Carolina or Denver for obvious reasons) this question: Who will finish with more NFL victories in his career, Newton or Tebow?

RESULTS

Newton: 25 votes
Tebow: 5 votes

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...#ixzz1lHPURrqw
wonder how many of the guys polled where beat by Tebow.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:07 PM   #470
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Tebow has also started 16 games, and his TD/TOs are 32/16. To save you the math, that's better than Newton's ratio.
****Rtard's brain just exploded.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:08 PM   #471
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Shhh... Listen close..

Hear that? That was the sound of the last shred of respect I had for you flying away...

You've become an absolute joke and just a parody of your east coast media exposure. "You didn't answer the way I wanted to so wah! And I'm not capable of answering this question because I only pretend to know avout football and parrot what howard eskin and espn say!"

You've gone out of your way to avoid any actual football discussion. The only logical conclusion: Gtfo douchebag. You belong there in philly.
I jerked to this post. just sayin.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:28 PM   #472
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I jerked to this post. just sayin.
You jerk to lame posts like that?

Come on, that post was beneath Rev. He's one of the best posters here but he's off on this one and Rev doesn't like being wrong. People attack like that when they can't come to the table with an actual argument. He's angry because I forced him to make a definitive statement (re FO's choosing between Tebow and Newton) that he knows is ridiculous. But he had to do it to defend his position and because he's passionate about Tebow and loves the guy, and he has a lot invested in being right about him. I give him credit, at least he's not a coward like most of you. Guys like jhns are actually smart in that they won't make definitive statements like that. He won't commit to much of anything, is mostly vague, and twists every statement people make and confuses the issue. Cowardly, but smart.

What's funny is that Rev is attacking me for not "talking football" when neither he nor anyone else is either. I haven't seen any of you make a good football argument for Tebow over Newton other than maybe interceptions.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:33 PM   #473
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Newton, as a passer, is by far, BY FAR, superior to Tebow.

That part of this isn't, or shouldn't, be debatable.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #474
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For some reason you really have to work to convince these guys that it's about scoring TD's.
These are one issue guys. You make any kind of disparaging remark about their one issue guy, and they'll attack you til doomsday. Like Rev with Quinton Carter. I admire you for sticking around, defending your points. And they're valid points. These guys attacking you all the time are like a swarm of mosquitoes. Carry on.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:45 PM   #475
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Newton, as a passer, is by far, BY FAR, superior to Tebow.

That part of this isn't, or shouldn't, be debatable.
Currently, Orton is much better passer than Tebow.
But..do you want Tebow or Orton?
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