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Old 01-28-2012, 09:41 AM   #1
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Default My draft argument for Peter Konz or Dont'a Hightower.

If theres one thing I've noticed about 'Maners through the years it's that in my opinion they've become smarter about the draft. As a whole we've finally come to the realization that we prefer Bigs over Sexy picks, go to some other sites and see how pissed the average football IQ fan gets when a team drafts a guard or a DT. So I'm hoping to get some draft chatter going by looking one step past that....

Leadership. Leadership out of your QB is an expectation, other than that it is a perk. You either luck out with it or you go get it. Our current leaders, probably in order, are Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Tim Tebow. Dawkins is likely gone... which hurts big time. Champ is aging and is often times injured and/or pretty quiet. Denver has improved drastically at getting younger and more athletic. These picks need to BEGIN to bring it all together so that eventually we start looking more like the Patriots than the Cowboys.

Peter Konz, Wisconsin, C - Denver has a young, good line. I know the argument will be that Beadles is a bigger issue that Walton, and also Beadles can be addressed with a G, or a RT and moving Franklin. But Konz is our guy. At 25 were not gonna get an all-pro player anywhere on the field except for C. Konz was the unquestioned leader of the best Oline in football, an Oline that had the 2nd most successful running back in College football history. IF you think Center isn't a "first round position" Then just look at Kiper's recent 2006 re-draft, Nick Mangold goes number two overall. This pick takes our O-line from young and good to elite. If we're going to run the Tebow-cat offense next year you're fooling yourself if you don't think the O-line is as important as Timothy Richard.

Dont'a Hightower - We're going to have to replace Dawkins leadership somehow. This guy was the MLB for the greatest Defense college football has ever seen. I've seen tons and tons of 'Bama games over the last couple years. OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKE BIG PLAYS BECAUSE OF HIGHTOWER. He cleans up everything in the middle. Let me say that again, cause I don't think Denver fans even know what that means anymore. HE CLEANS UP EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE. He did have some talent in the middle in front of him, namely Marcell Darius last year, but he also played in a straight up non blitzing 3-4. It's much harder for a 3-4 MLB to rack up tackles than a 4-3 roaming MLB. On top of this, if you look at Fox's best defenses over the years, MLB played a huge role in them. Lastly, this may be our weakest position on the field.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #2
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Konz would be incredible.

As for Hightower, I think you could wait and draft a guy like Spence as late as the third and still get an impact player.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:16 AM   #3
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I would like to see Hightower in a bronco uni!
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:30 AM   #4
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Konz, Crick, or Hightower...in that order.

1. Peter Konz - best Center prospect in years, elite size and talent, if he's there at #25, you can't pass him up. Would be replacing the worst rated center in the league (J.D. Walton). Get Kendall Reyes (UT), Coryell Judie (CB), Jerry Franklin (MLB), or a WR in the 2nd.

2. Jared Crick - Quinton Coples is better, but will be a top 10 selection. Jared Crick is not a physical freak, but is a hard worker, with elite college sack totals...he WILL put up good production from the UT position in the NFL. Better pass rusher than Cox, Still, Thompson, Poe...which is what we need. Get Coryell Judie (CB), Levy Adcock (OT), Jerry Franklin (MLB), or a WR in the 2nd.

3. Dont'a Hightower - Elite size but not speed (4.7 forty) from the MLB position. BIG upgrade over Joe Mays, with a possibility of being an elite player in the NFL. Get Kendall Reyes (DT), Coryell Judie (CB), Levy Adcock (OT), or WR in the 2nd.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:31 AM   #5
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I think Konz would be great. Hightower I think is too big for what Fox likes in a MLber

Teams can just beat us up phsycially up the middle of our Oline. Walton is the weak link

Last edited by CEH; 01-28-2012 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:27 PM   #6
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I think Konz would be great. Hightower I think is too big for what Fox likes in a MLber

Teams can just beat us up phsycially up the middle of our Oline. Walton is the weak link
Good point on Fox. I personally prefer big where-you-down type Defenses, but with your point on Fox liking smaller middlebackers.... any U fans out there have any info on Spence. Sounds like a freak, listed as an outbacker but I remember people talking about him as a middle.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #7
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Konz, Crick, or Hightower...in that order.

1. Peter Konz - best Center prospect in years, elite size and talent, if he's there at #25, you can't pass him up. Would be replacing the worst rated center in the league (J.D. Walton). Get Kendall Reyes (UT), Coryell Judie (CB), Jerry Franklin (MLB), or a WR in the 2nd.

2. Jared Crick - Quinton Coples is better, but will be a top 10 selection. Jared Crick is not a physical freak, but is a hard worker, with elite college sack totals...he WILL put up good production from the UT position in the NFL. Better pass rusher than Cox, Still, Thompson, Poe...which is what we need. Get Coryell Judie (CB), Levy Adcock (OT), Jerry Franklin (MLB), or a WR in the 2nd.

3. Dont'a Hightower - Elite size but not speed (4.7 forty) from the MLB position. BIG upgrade over Joe Mays, with a possibility of being an elite player in the NFL. Get Kendall Reyes (DT), Coryell Judie (CB), Levy Adcock (OT), or WR in the 2nd.
With you being so high on Crick... do you think staying at 25 is the right move or a trade down. People will obviously rise and fall but let's say the draft was tomorrow and Konz is gone at 25.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #8
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I think we're drafting at a great spot with tons of options to build this team how we want.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #9
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I want to see what Hightower runs before I get too high on him. I like what he can do as far as being a nickle DE and rush the passer like he does at the college level but, with the talk about him being a 4.8 guy I worry about what he can do at the NFL level.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:05 PM   #10
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One of the things the Broncos made a high priority in last year's draft was seeking players who were "team captains" because the Broncos are in need of some new leadership. That will be a factor again in this year's Broncos' draft as well.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:13 PM   #11
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this hightower talk is just beggin for some police academy posts.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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Crick is one of those guys who probably won't completely implode and bust but will more than likely do nothing special in the NFL.

Dude just doesn't make plays.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:48 PM   #13
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I just want the best player, I don't really care where he plays. At this point, it seems like the most likely candidates would be Konz or Kirkpatrick If he falls due to the weed.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iforgotmypassword View Post
With you being so high on Crick... do you think staying at 25 is the right move or a trade down. People will obviously rise and fall but let's say the draft was tomorrow and Konz is gone at 25.
If Konz is gone, which he should be (there is no way 24 other GM's pass up the best OC prospect in a long time for other marginal players
) ...I wouldn't trade down. Belicheat will pick Crick at #27 or #32. That's all he needs...him or Konz.

If Crick weighs in at the combine at 290 (at least), running a 4.8 forty, snap him up at #25. Disappointed to not see him at the Senior Bowl, but that's good for us, as he is dropping out of the limelight.

If Konz, and Crick are gone at #25:

1st: Kendall Wright (WR) or Lamar Miller (RB)
2nd: Coryell Judie (CB) or Levi Adcock (OT)
3rd: Derek Wolfe (UT) or Jerry Franklin (MLB)

Your looking at solid starters/impact players right there. Any of those guys could step in and immediately start. That would be an awesome draft.


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Crick is one of those guys who probably won't completely implode and bust but will more than likely do nothing special in the NFL. Dude just doesn't make plays.
Crick had 70 tackles and 9.5 sacks as a soph, 70 tackles and 9.5 sacks as a junior. How can you say he doesn't make plays? He is the same size and hustle as J.J. Watt who had 55 tackles and 5.5 sacks this year at DE in a 3-4 with the Texans. I can see Crick getting 7 sacks as a UT in a 4-3 in the NFL as a rookie...easy.

He's got the moves, and the motor. Guys like Devon Still, and Fletcher Cox will get 3 to 4 sacks and like 35 tackles in the NFL...just average guys. Brandon Thompson is another average guy. It's hard to find penetrating, sacking UT's, most guys are like Still, Cox, and Thompson, more suited to play DE in a 3-4, or NT in a 4-3.


One thing about Hightower: He had an ACL a couple years ago. He probably used to be faster, but isn't so fast now, and might get ate up trying to cover in the NFL.

Last edited by pricejj; 01-28-2012 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:54 PM   #15
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I would HATE a RB in the 1st. No to Miller in the 1st.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:53 PM   #16
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with the way the defense is and with Del Rio being the new DC i'd think we'd go DT or MLB in the first round this year.
unless you're going tackle or guard i don't really see a reason to take a OL in the first round.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #17
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Konz would be the only player I'd want out of anybody listed in this thread @ 25.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:10 PM   #18
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Konz would be the only player I'd want out of anybody listed in this thread @ 25.
Hey Req, I know you like Devon Still, but I just don't see it man...49 tackles and 4.5 sacks as a 22 year old just doesn't scream special to me. Who else do you like at 25?
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:04 PM   #19
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Konz would be the only player I'd want out of anybody listed in this thread @ 25.
Agreed. Konz would be the best pick out of him, Hightower, the random RBs, etc. mentioned
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #20
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Hey Req, I know you like Devon Still, but I just don't see it man...49 tackles and 4.5 sacks as a 22 year old just doesn't scream special to me. Who else do you like at 25?
Rev is the one super high on Still. He's good, but we won't have a shot at him.

My wishlist @ 25 comes down to:

Luke Kuechly
Melvin Ingram
Fletcher Cox
Cordy Glenn
Peter Konz
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iforgotmypassword View Post
If theres one thing I've noticed about 'Maners through the years it's that in my opinion they've become smarter about the draft. As a whole we've finally come to the realization that we prefer Bigs over Sexy picks, go to some other sites and see how pissed the average football IQ fan gets when a team drafts a guard or a DT. So I'm hoping to get some draft chatter going by looking one step past that....

Leadership. Leadership out of your QB is an expectation, other than that it is a perk. You either luck out with it or you go get it. Our current leaders, probably in order, are Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Tim Tebow. Dawkins is likely gone... which hurts big time. Champ is aging and is often times injured and/or pretty quiet. Denver has improved drastically at getting younger and more athletic. These picks need to BEGIN to bring it all together so that eventually we start looking more like the Patriots than the Cowboys.

Peter Konz, Wisconsin, C - Denver has a young, good line. I know the argument will be that Beadles is a bigger issue that Walton, and also Beadles can be addressed with a G, or a RT and moving Franklin. But Konz is our guy. At 25 were not gonna get an all-pro player anywhere on the field except for C. Konz was the unquestioned leader of the best Oline in football, an Oline that had the 2nd most successful running back in College football history. IF you think Center isn't a "first round position" Then just look at Kiper's recent 2006 re-draft, Nick Mangold goes number two overall. This pick takes our O-line from young and good to elite. If we're going to run the Tebow-cat offense next year you're fooling yourself if you don't think the O-line is as important as Timothy Richard.

Dont'a Hightower - We're going to have to replace Dawkins leadership somehow. This guy was the MLB for the greatest Defense college football has ever seen. I've seen tons and tons of 'Bama games over the last couple years. OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKE BIG PLAYS BECAUSE OF HIGHTOWER. He cleans up everything in the middle. Let me say that again, cause I don't think Denver fans even know what that means anymore. HE CLEANS UP EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE. He did have some talent in the middle in front of him, namely Marcell Darius last year, but he also played in a straight up non blitzing 3-4. It's much harder for a 3-4 MLB to rack up tackles than a 4-3 roaming MLB. On top of this, if you look at Fox's best defenses over the years, MLB played a huge role in them. Lastly, this may be our weakest position on the field.
Solid post, man!
I agree for most part. I still think our defense still has many holes to fill...
We need help inside the DL. We need somebody that can push the pile and create chaos.
That will be my priority.
The OL yeah, we need help there too. It takes time for an OL to come together and play solid. I feel we have the right pieces in place, we're too young and inexperienced. Kuper was pretty much the anchor of our OL.
I'm not discounting the chance of adding another solid guard or even a center...
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by iforgotmypassword View Post
If theres one thing I've noticed about 'Maners through the years it's that in my opinion they've become smarter about the draft. As a whole we've finally come to the realization that we prefer Bigs over Sexy picks, go to some other sites and see how pissed the average football IQ fan gets when a team drafts a guard or a DT. So I'm hoping to get some draft chatter going by looking one step past that....

Leadership. Leadership out of your QB is an expectation, other than that it is a perk. You either luck out with it or you go get it. Our current leaders, probably in order, are Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Tim Tebow. Dawkins is likely gone... which hurts big time. Champ is aging and is often times injured and/or pretty quiet. Denver has improved drastically at getting younger and more athletic. These picks need to BEGIN to bring it all together so that eventually we start looking more like the Patriots than the Cowboys.

Peter Konz, Wisconsin, C - Denver has a young, good line. I know the argument will be that Beadles is a bigger issue that Walton, and also Beadles can be addressed with a G, or a RT and moving Franklin. But Konz is our guy. At 25 were not gonna get an all-pro player anywhere on the field except for C. Konz was the unquestioned leader of the best Oline in football, an Oline that had the 2nd most successful running back in College football history. IF you think Center isn't a "first round position" Then just look at Kiper's recent 2006 re-draft, Nick Mangold goes number two overall. This pick takes our O-line from young and good to elite. If we're going to run the Tebow-cat offense next year you're fooling yourself if you don't think the O-line is as important as Timothy Richard.

Dont'a Hightower - We're going to have to replace Dawkins leadership somehow. This guy was the MLB for the greatest Defense college football has ever seen. I've seen tons and tons of 'Bama games over the last couple years. OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKE BIG PLAYS BECAUSE OF HIGHTOWER. He cleans up everything in the middle. Let me say that again, cause I don't think Denver fans even know what that means anymore. HE CLEANS UP EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE. He did have some talent in the middle in front of him, namely Marcell Darius last year, but he also played in a straight up non blitzing 3-4. It's much harder for a 3-4 MLB to rack up tackles than a 4-3 roaming MLB. On top of this, if you look at Fox's best defenses over the years, MLB played a huge role in them. Lastly, this may be our weakest position on the field.
I have no problem with Konz. Beadles is worse than Walton, but neither are really looking like the caliber of players you want starting on your o-line so I don't have an issue with it. In fact, taking two o-line in the first two rounds is something I really have no problem with. I really don't like our current o-line, especially in pass protection, and it always seems to come back to Beadles and Walton sucking on the interior and a guard playing out of position at tackle. So a C in the 1st and a RT in the 2nd, while moving Franklin inside sounds great to me.

Hightower though? Too big and slow to play a 4-3 MLB. No thanks.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:18 PM   #23
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I have no problem with Konz. Beadles is worse than Walton, but neither are really looking like the caliber of players you want starting on your o-line so I don't have an issue with it. In fact, taking two o-line in the first two rounds is something I really have no problem with. I really don't like our current o-line, especially in pass protection, and it always seems to come back to Beadles and Walton sucking on the interior and a guard playing out of position at tackle. So a C in the 1st and a RT in the 2nd, while moving Franklin inside sounds great to me.

Hightower though? Too big and slow to play a 4-3 MLB. No thanks.

I like the idea here but, doubt Denver would burn top 2 picks on OL.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:07 AM   #24
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I don't expect a big move at MLB this offseason. They invested a 3rd round pick in Nate Irving in the last draft, and I think they will give him a chance to win the job. I could maybe see them signing a vet like Dan Conner if they want to upgrade Mays/Haggan, but it wouldn't make much sense to draft another unproven guy at the top of the draft unless they've already decided that Irving is a sunk cost, which I doubt.

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Old 01-29-2012, 09:36 AM   #25
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Man, I don't see it guys....I like our YOUNG O-line. I Tivo every game and go back and actually watch these guys play. There are times when both Walton and Beadles are dominent. In fact, Beadles can be darn right NASTY.

Do you really think that a guy like Phil Simms, who repeadedly said that we have the best yound line in football, doesn't know what he is talking about??

These guys have played 2yrs. This year they had to figure out how to block for Orton, and then Tebow. No run game, to zone option.

Oh, and maybe you didn't know this. We were the #1 rushing offense in football!

Also, our QB (who is learning) held the ball....way....way....way, too long!

I absolutely love Konz and I would not be pissed if we drafted him, but I don't agree that it is a position of need. I'd rather take a guard/tackle in the 3rd/4th round to solidify depth.

I'm still not sure what to make of the situation with Nate Irving...did we really waste a 3rd round pick I don't know, because he didn't get on the field as a rookie, outside of special teams. That being said, I absolutely agree about Hightower. He is a leader and a monster in the middle...something we need badly! His problem is whether he can be a 3 down player in the NFL...I don't think the scouts feel like he can cover the TE.

Here's who are on my radar for #25:

Michael Brockers - Dline
Janoris Jenkins - CB
Devon Still - DT
Stephon Gilmore - CB
Donta Hightower - ILB
Dre Kirkpatrick - CB (will fall b/c of arrest)
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