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Old 07-30-2012, 01:21 PM   #1226
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Probably true. But most QBs don't have 8 passing attempts in a game.
And yet in his first 16 starts with limited opportunity, he still managed more yards per attempt than Kyle Orton's career average.

Or Jake Plummer's. Or Sam Bradford's.

Pretty good for the worst QB ever to grace an NFL Stadium.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:26 PM   #1227
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Forgot about Timmons... my bad. I kept thinking about Hampton and Clark. And sorry but Clark is an overrated S. Leading the team in tackles is not an indication of how good you are. We have learned that with DJ.
When you're leading the #1 defense in the entire league in tackles, I think that means a tad bit more than leading a bottom feeder unit in tackles. By definition, the unit can't be ranked #1 if their leading tackler is making all his tackles 5-10 yards downfield.

Regardless of how good you think he is, he is light years better than his backup.....you know, the guy who essentially cost them the game in OT.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:33 PM   #1228
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And yet in his first 16 starts with limited opportunity, he still managed more yards per attempt than Kyle Orton's career average.

Or Jake Plummer's. Or Sam Bradford's.

Pretty good for the worst QB ever to grace an NFL Stadium.
Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:34 PM   #1229
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When you're leading the #1 defense in the entire league in tackles, I think that means a tad bit more than leading a bottom feeder unit in tackles. By definition, the unit can't be ranked #1 if their leading tackler is making all his tackles 5-10 yards downfield.

Regardless of how good you think he is, he is light years better than his backup.....you know, the guy who essentially cost them the game in OT.
Good post... but it also has to do with the scheme they run and the way if flushes plays to a certain spot of the defense. And still... Lebeu cost them the game with the game plan he called. He had the blueprint that was given to him by the league on that final month of the season. Starting with the Pats. He just decided to challenge him to pass and got burned. Tebow abused that defense with only DT to throw to. They could be missing 3 players... but either way... what we had that day according to all, had no chance in hell of beating them. But yeah... once he beat them all this injured players crap starts popping up. Just give credit where credit is do.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:04 PM   #1230
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Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.
Yards per completion is different than yards per attempt.

When you look at any of Tebow's stats per ATTEMPT, he actually looks pretty good for a young QB.

For instance, he has more yards per attempt, fewer INT's per attempt and more TD's per attempt than Andy Dalton.

Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.

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Old 07-30-2012, 02:16 PM   #1231
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Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.
and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:26 PM   #1232
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and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.
That's a part of it, sure. But that's also offset by gameplans that rarely passed on 1st down, when a QB's job is easiest.

8 straight first-down runs to open a game? Unheard of. 21 of 22 first down runs in the playoffs? Will probably never happen again in the history of the game.

Plus the fact that anything remotely close to 8 passing plays a game makes it difficult for anyone to be in a rhythm.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:14 PM   #1233
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1. Hanie was not added to replace Tebow for long term future. But Brock was.
So if Manning gets hurt Osweiler is going in? Sounds like a great way to ruin another project QB. Or to play Hanie and lose every game he starts.

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2. Nothing showed me that his inconsistencies were going away. In fact they got worse as the season went on, putting up 3 horrible performances in the last 3 games of the year.
It was mid-season with a passing offense designed for his predecessor. How much improvement did you expect to see? The off-season is when he could have made strides forward as a passer.

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3. Tebow running any plays in a manning offense? A college offense will never win a Future Super Bowl. Ever.
Who's asking him to on either count? Hanie can't run any plays in Manning's offense. Neither can Osweiler. No one available to back up Manning has the ability to make changes on the fly that Manning's offense is predicated on. But the Tebow Cat can be rolled out in a week and win games. We did it last year. This year we would have had even more of a foundation to build on, and a likely somewhat improved passing angle from Tebow.

So if Manning gets hurt and misses the middle 4 games on the schedule, who do you think is a better bet to win us games? Hanie or Osweiler trying to fill Manning's shoes or Tebow running the Tebow Cat? That is what I'm talking about. Tebow is an ideal bridge should Manning need to miss time prior to the playoffs.

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4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers
So? He's a young player, they risk the ball. At least he wasn't prone to both fumbles and picks, like both of the previous Bronco starting QBs were.

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5. He is a motivator. And now leader of special teams.
And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

He's their #2 QB. They shipped the FA #2 QB they'd just signed out of town when they brought Tebow in. His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Why wasn't he the punt protector for us when he was supposedly 3rd string? Why weren't some wild cat plays built into the offense last pre-season? Why was Tebow treated like an afterthought despite his obvious talents when the football is in his hands?
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:15 PM   #1234
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Yards per completion is different than yards per attempt.

When you look at any of Tebow's stats per ATTEMPT, he actually looks pretty good for a young QB.

For instance, he has more yards per attempt, fewer INT's per attempt and more TD's per attempt than Andy Dalton.

Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.
However it makes you feel by telling yourself he is a good passer when he is awful. No matter how you slice it he is a below average passer and one of the worst in the league.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:27 PM   #1235
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However it makes you feel by telling yourself he is a good passer when he is awful. No matter how you slice it he is a below average passer and one of the worst in the league.
Yeah yeah. YPA ain't no thang.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...s-per-attempt/

The numbers lie. He can't fro spyros.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:45 PM   #1236
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And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

He's their #2 QB. They shipped the FA #2 QB they'd just signed out of town when they brought Tebow in. His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Why wasn't he the punt protector for us when he was supposedly 3rd string? Why weren't some wild cat plays built into the offense last pre-season? Why was Tebow treated like an afterthought despite his obvious talents when the football is in his hands?
So saying he's on special teams is hate words? No. It's reality and it's what the jets are doing. They aren't looking at him as a starting QB. Rex and Sparano are inventing some sort of hybrid position, bulking him up. No team is going to put a starting caliber QB on special teams. When he was here I wanted him in at other positions, just like Rex does. To say I personally hate him is ridiculous. I've never met the guy. Not gonna take wispy walks with him either. I don't like him as a starting QB. It ends there. I'm about as conservative as you can get so I value his beliefs and applaud him for it. GTFO sayin I personally hate him.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 07-30-2012 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:25 PM   #1237
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So if Manning gets hurt Osweiler is going in? Sounds like a great way to ruin another project QB. Or to play Hanie and lose every game he starts.

well Oz is running with the 2nd teamers in camp today....and he throws the ball alot better than Hanie...and Tebow



And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

how is it a personal attack to say the guy is now playing special teams? He is playing special teams....


His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Yeah, right...they're thinking outside the box...guess that means we'll see Dustin Keller playing DE, since he is afterall a playmaker and you gotta get him on the field more than when the offense has the ball. Darrelle Revis will start playing WR now because he too is a playmaker, and they need to get their playmakers on the field more.....Face it, he's the punt protector because it's something he can do better than throwing the ball.
in bold
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #1238
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Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.
He already is in Buttheads mind
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #1239
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when Mark Sanchez hits on 55% of his passes, everyone says he needs to improve...when Tebow hits on 50%, everyone says "See, look at the improvement he's made..."
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:16 PM   #1240
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Yeah yeah. YPA ain't no thang.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...s-per-attempt/

The numbers lie. He can't fro spyros.
Lol you cherry pick an article from several years ago that is backhanding 2 HOF QB's because they play for NY for the likes of Delhomme and Pennington? your a joke. Well since you use YPA as your basis why don't you study this list.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta..._AVERAGE_YARDS
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:22 PM   #1241
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He also needs to check out this list too....but hey they're just stats. They don't explain why we sucked so much at converting 3rd downs....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...OWN_PERCENTAGE
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:34 PM   #1242
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when Mark Sanchez hits on 55% of his passes, everyone says he needs to improve...when Tebow hits on 50%, everyone says "See, look at the improvement he's made..."
Mark Sanchez just finished his 3rd year starting and still has a career QB rating less than Tim's (75)

Your boy Orton's QB rating through his first 16 games was 59.

So at least we can tell one thing... The Jets have 2 QB's on their roster better than Kyle Orton.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:35 PM   #1243
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Mark Sanchez just finished his 3rd year starting and still has a career QB rating less than Tim's (75)

Your boy Orton's QB rating through his first 16 games was 59.

So at least we can tell one thing... The Jets have 2 QB's on their roster better than Kyle Orton.
your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:43 PM   #1244
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Lol you cherry pick an article from several years ago that is backhanding 2 HOF QB's because they play for NY for the likes of Delhomme and Pennington? your a joke. Well since you use YPA as your basis why don't you study this list.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta..._AVERAGE_YARDS
Let me simple it up for ya.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...3200/tim-tebow Career Average YPA 6.75
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...12/andy-dalton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...520/kyle-orton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...2/mark-sanchez Career Average YPA 6.51

And the reason YPA is important is self-explanatory. People who worship at the altar of completion percentage think going 3 for 3 for 9 yards is better than going 1 for 3 for 12. But that makes no sense in relation to the game.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:43 PM   #1245
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your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?
Just wait till Tebow starts returning kicks so Beavis can toss that stat out vs every other QB in modern history.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:45 PM   #1246
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and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.
Timmy is hoping that only passing on 4th down via the jump pass when teams aren't looking for it will up his vague Passing yards per completion stat

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/n...mp-pass-073012

I am so glad this side show is gone. It is like a circus going from a 1 trick pony to Circ de Solie (sp?)
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:46 PM   #1247
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Let me simple it up for ya.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...3200/tim-tebow Career Average YPA 6.75
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...12/andy-dalton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...520/kyle-orton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...2/mark-sanchez Career Average YPA 6.51

And the reason YPA is important is self-explanatory. People who worship at the altar of completion percentage think going 3 for 3 for 9 yards is better than going 1 for 3 for 12. But that makes no sense in relation to the game.
What's Tebow's 3rd down conversion percentage?
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:48 PM   #1248
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your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?
Sorry, we were told Elway can't be compared to modern QB's. Unless it reflects well on him, then it's ok.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:49 PM   #1249
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in bold

Tebow will continue to be a force in the NFL If you don't see that you haven't been paying attention. Elway and the Broncos decided to go in a more traditional direction but that doesn't mean that Tebow has become chopped liver. Tebow is a rare individual who will succeed.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:51 PM   #1250
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Tebow will continue to be a force in the NFL If you don't see that you haven't been paying attention. Elway and the Broncos decided to go in a more traditional direction but that doesn't mean that Tebow has become chopped liver. Tebow is a rare individual who will succeed.
So he is the next Hester?
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