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Old 07-30-2012, 07:28 AM   #1176
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Except Warner was 33 when the perpetually-losing Cards signed him as a McCown stopgap to Leinart.
Yeah, so? He was a full year older than Manning that entire season leading up to the SB.

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Warner was never THE plan. It just worked out the way it did because he was far better than Leinart.
Funny, because Manning isn't THE plan either.

"One guy doesn't win a world championship for you, even though he gives you a hell of a chance to be able to compete," Elway said. "As I told (Manning), my job is to get the best quality people around him, the best coaches to give us the opportunity to win a world championship. It's fun to be able to put that puzzle together, but there are so many different pieces to put in a team that has the ability to win a world championship."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:56 AM   #1177
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Tebow was on sportscenter this morning doing 7 on 7 drills and was scrambling with no pass rush. It was comical as Jaws was like uhh you shouldn't have to scramble Tim there is no pass rush.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:01 AM   #1178
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ts: Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.
Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%
Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%



.........

Can you link to that thread? Cause I sure as hell don't remember ever voting in a poll like that without good reason.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:02 AM   #1179
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Yeah, so? He was a full year older than Manning that entire season leading up to the SB.



Funny, because Manning isn't THE plan either.

"One guy doesn't win a world championship for you, even though he gives you a hell of a chance to be able to compete," Elway said. "As I told (Manning), my job is to get the best quality people around him, the best coaches to give us the opportunity to win a world championship. It's fun to be able to put that puzzle together, but there are so many different pieces to put in a team that has the ability to win a world championship."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream
That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:20 AM   #1180
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That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.
So the highest paid QBs in the league handcuff their team from other positions? That's one position where you throw money at. Being cheap at the QB position equals mediocre to bad results. Paying for a QB leads to superbowls. Granted a punt protector would cost way less. But we would only see about 2-6 completions a game.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:24 AM   #1181
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That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.
I'd rather handcuff my behind the scenes cap guy a little as opposed to handcuffing the other 10 guys on my offense.....you know, the ones who take the field and win games for me.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:25 AM   #1182
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That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.
If we were talking about two QBs of comparable skill/effectiveness you would have a point. But we are not. An elite QB (like Manning) can mask/overcome deficiencies in other areas, while a QB who struggles to pass, convert 1st downs, and score points (Tebow) can amplify them.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:26 AM   #1183
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So the highest paid QBs in the league handcuff their team from other positions? That's one position where you throw money at. Being cheap at the QB position equals mediocre to bad results. Paying for a QB leads to superbowls. Granted a punt protector would cost way less. But we would only see about 2-6 completions a game.
To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:32 AM   #1184
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That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.
Paying a fullback that much to play QB is what handcuffs the team. Get over it Tebow is the worst passer in the league and nobody is winning it all with him at the helm.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:39 AM   #1185
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To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?

Peyton didn't take the richest contract, or he'd be a Titan. And contracts today compared to contracts more than a decade ago is hard to compare.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:40 AM   #1186
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To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?
whatever, Manning's contract is big, yes, but it also is basically a year-to-year contract that protects the team in case of injury. The Broncos have the money to pay Manning and whether you admit it or not, he probably could of asked for a lot more, and gotten it. Other teams like the Titans were willing to pay Manning more but he arguably took less to play for the Broncos. Looking at the Brees contract should give you an idea of what Manning could have got if he wanted more money.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:43 AM   #1187
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Looking at several sources and the changes to the CBA salary cap accounting, that contract sure didn't hurt this year. Projected cap space for '12 was slightly above $147 mil. Based contracts as of 7/15, the team still had $11.7 to spend, cap number at $135.5. Add the Hillman and Osweiler numbers and there is still $5 mil floating around before any cuts from camp.

The team deferred the carryover from the Cowboys and Redskins punishment to '13 and at least 5 more from this year added to this years cap number for '13 leaves plenty of space for Manning in '13 with no adjustment for new TV deals.

I'll trust the new cap guy already has '13 and '14 budgeted, that's what he's paid to do. I'll buy my boys the new 18 jerseys including the alt ones to help the cause.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:59 AM   #1188
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Paying a fullback that much to play QB is what handcuffs the team. Get over it Tebow is the worst passer in the league and nobody is winning it all with him at the helm.
The numbers I threw out were for Warner's contract going into his SB run. Had nothing to do with Tebow.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:21 AM   #1189
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Peyton didn't take the richest contract, or he'd be a Titan. And contracts today compared to contracts more than a decade ago is hard to compare.
The fact that he could've squeezed some more blood out of a different turnip doesn't really disprove the point.

If you'd like a more modern example, look at the restructure Brady just did this offseason. He restructured down to a cap hit of only $8 million this year. That's less than half of Manning's cap footprint.

And he's two years younger and just got done leading his team to the dance, as opposed to missing a full season with multiple neck surgeries.

Could Tom Brady demand more money? Absolutely. And he'd get it. But he knows getting paid more takes directly away from other investments the team can make to get better.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:25 AM   #1190
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Man, I remember when Drek wrote stuff that wasn't completely in the bag for Tebow. When he gave honest and logical assessments of the play on the field, and wouldn't make ridiculous statements. Those were good days.

This is not the Drek we used to know.
Not being an idiot doesn't mean I'm in the bag for Tebow.

Lets go over the facts, AGAIN.

1. Tim Tebow is statistically a better passer than Caleb Hanie (our current #2) IN NEARLY EVERY WAY. He's also far younger and still developing as a passer. So replacing Tebow for Hanie, with very little return, is a net downgrade.

2. In half of Tebow's starts last season (Oakland, both SD games, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Miami) Tim Tebow threw the ball with success. His completion percentage was poor but his overall numbers were strong, resulting in good QB ratings. He wasn't bad at throwing the football last year, he was inconsistent. You can fix inconsistencies.

3. He can run a very streamlined offense that this organization proved last year could win games without much prep time. That is vital for a team that is going to start Peyton Manning, as no other QB has been able to run his offense.

4. Tim Tebow, when put in the right situations, does not turn the ball over, hindering the defense. He lets you play a defense, special teams, and run game oriented style very effectively. This is supposed to be John Fox's wheelhouse and the core of what we're building this franchise towards. Having him as the long term safety net instead of giving him away would have been to the benefit of this franchise.

5. He's inarguably a leader and motivator. Those are traits that you should seek out for all your players, including backups.

Signing Manning was a perfect pathway to put the genie back in the bottle as it where and develop Tebow appropriately. But this org. isn't interested in that because he's not their guy and doesn't fit their mold. That's their prerogative, but it doesn't mean we're better off now that Caleb Hanie is one hard hit away from starting meaningful games for this team.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:29 AM   #1191
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The fact that he could've squeezed some more blood out of a different turnip doesn't really disprove the point.

If you'd like a more modern example, look at the restructure Brady just did this offseason. He restructured down to a cap hit of only $8 million this year. That's less than half of Manning's cap footprint.

And he's two years younger and just got done leading his team to the dance, as opposed to missing a full season with multiple neck surgeries.

Could Tom Brady demand more money? Absolutely. And he'd get it. But he knows getting paid more takes directly away from other investments the team can make to get better.
Patriots cap space and broncos cap space were 2 different things. Spread out money over years of a contract that is basically year to year depending on Mannings health? Wouldn't make much sense
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:30 AM   #1192
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/eve...T/broncos.html

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By agreeing to restructure his contract, Elway saved the team $3.1 million against the salary cap for this season and provided the room to sign Smith. As a result Elway's base salary this year will be less than $600,000, making him one of the league's lowest-paid starting quarterbacks. "That guy always bails out this team," says defensive end Dan Williams. "He'd do anything to help this team win." Smith will do his part too. His six-sack total last season was his lowest since 1988, his rookie year, but would have ranked second on the '96 Broncos. "Not only will he be helping us," Elway points out, "but now we don't have to face him twice a year either.
What a dumbass Elway was. He thought you needed cap space to bring in the best talent. I guess that was before the Mane though, so there was no way we could've enlightened him.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:37 AM   #1193
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Not being an idiot doesn't mean I'm in the bag for Tebow.

Lets go over the facts, AGAIN.

1. Tim Tebow is statistically a better passer than Caleb Hanie (our current #2) IN NEARLY EVERY WAY. He's also far younger and still developing as a passer. So replacing Tebow for Hanie, with very little return, is a net downgrade.

2. In half of Tebow's starts last season (Oakland, both SD games, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Miami) Tim Tebow threw the ball with success. His completion percentage was poor but his overall numbers were strong, resulting in good QB ratings. He wasn't bad at throwing the football last year, he was inconsistent. You can fix inconsistencies.

3. He can run a very streamlined offense that this organization proved last year could win games without much prep time. That is vital for a team that is going to start Peyton Manning, as no other QB has been able to run his offense.

4. Tim Tebow, when put in the right situations, does not turn the ball over, hindering the defense. He lets you play a defense, special teams, and run game oriented style very effectively. This is supposed to be John Fox's wheelhouse and the core of what we're building this franchise towards. Having him as the long term safety net instead of giving him away would have been to the benefit of this franchise.

5. He's inarguably a leader and motivator. Those are traits that you should seek out for all your players, including backups.

Signing Manning was a perfect pathway to put the genie back in the bottle as it where and develop Tebow appropriately. But this org. isn't interested in that because he's not their guy and doesn't fit their mold. That's their prerogative, but it doesn't mean we're better off now that Caleb Hanie is one hard hit away from starting meaningful games for this team.

1. Hanie was not added to replace Tebow for long term future. But Brock was.
2. Nothing showed me that his inconsistencies were going away. In fact they got worse as the season went on, putting up 3 horrible performances in the last 3 games of the year.
3. Tebow running any plays in a manning offense? A college offense will never win a Future Super Bowl. Ever.
4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers
5. He is a motivator. And now leader of special teams.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:44 AM   #1194
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/eve...T/broncos.html



What a dumbass Elway was. He thought you needed cap space to bring in the best talent. I guess that was before the Mane though, so there was no way we could've enlightened him.
Did that bronco team have cap space like this years team did? 2 different situations. Cap space was the exact reason we upgraded the most important position on the field.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:46 AM   #1195
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4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers.
Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #1196
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Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.
So he was fortunate enough to get back the other fumbles he had. I see what you did here
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:03 AM   #1197
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Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.
There you go again. Comparing Tebow to a QB nearly everyone hated and felt was among the worst in the league. Awesome.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:05 AM   #1198
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Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.
Can't throw a int, if you can't throw a pass.

Last edited by Stuck in Cali; 07-30-2012 at 01:25 PM.. Reason: changed baby to can't. Stupid autocorrrect and fat thumb.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:05 AM   #1199
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So he was fortunate enough to get back the other fumbles he had. I see what you did here
Has to do with the nature of a running fumble vs a ****ting your pants fumble.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:07 AM   #1200
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Can't throw a int, if you baby throw a pass.
Tebow's INT percentage is better than most in the NFL.
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