The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-25-2011, 11:36 PM   #1
Bronco Rob
Ring of Famer
 
Bronco Rob's Avatar
 
The Alpha & The Omega

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,754

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Kush & Irsay
Default Tim Tebow, Tom Brady and the Buffalo Bills: Fan's Perspective

Tim Tebow, Tom Brady and the Buffalo Bills: Fan’s Perspective



By Deborah Braconnier, Yahoo! Contributor Network
3 hours, 3 minutes ago



Despite what everyone thought would be an easy win for the Denver Broncos, the team lost against the Buffalo Bills on Christmas Eve. Broncos QB Tim Tebow threw four interceptions which the Bills took full advantage of and there was no coming back for Denver.


As would be expected, Tebow's critics are quick to come back and say they told us so. Tebow is not a passer and will never make it in the NFL. Give him the ability to pass and he sends it into the hands of the other team.


As a fan of Tebow, I have never argued that he has some passing issues. He is definitely a rushing QB and this season, the Broncos have made that work. However, Tebow was beginning to show improvement in his passing game and even critics were beginning to change their tune. Then they lost to the New England Patriots and Tebow's winning streak ended.


The first loss to the Patriots and QB Tom Brady, I have to say didn't surprise me. The Bills, on the other hand, I thought the Broncos had in the bag. However, after the game ended, I did a little bit of looking and found a stat that surprised me.


While everyone is picking on Tebow and the fact that he threw four interceptions and essentially helped the Broncos lose the game, there was another QB this season that had the same problem. Back on September 25, the Bills took on another team and won after the opposing QB threw four interceptions. Can you guess who that QB was? Well, it was the one and only Tom Brady.


All the critics sit back and say that Tim Tebow will never be a "Tom Brady." Well guess what? He already is. Just like Tom Brady had a bad game and a few interceptions, Tebow had a bad day as well. And maybe, just maybe, the Bills have a good defense that can grab those interceptions.


This is Tebow's first year as a starter and yes, I think he still needs a lot of work. This year his development and practice time with the team was affected by the lockout and I think that hurt him. But, I think, given a full season, Tebow will be able to deliver and take the Broncos much further in 2012.


I am just hoping that New Year's Day will be a good one and we can beat the Kansas City Chiefs. That, for this Broncos fan, will be the best way to start 2012.


Deborah Braconnier is a former athlete and avid football fan. She is a freelance writer and Featured Contributor for the NFL and Olympics. She has followed the Denver Broncos since she was a child and can usually be found yelling at the television during football season.




http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10750931
Bronco Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-25-2011, 11:40 PM   #2
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,639
Default

Other QB's other than Tebow have thrown 4 int's? Preposterous!


Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2011, 11:50 PM   #3
Ratboy
It's all over...
 
Ratboy's Avatar
 
ಠ_ಠ

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 15,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
Other QB's other than Tebow have thrown 4 int's? Preposterous!


Manning has also thrown 4 Interceptions in a game.

Want to know the difference? Those were very bad games for proven passers. We relied on Tebow to throw the ball and he showed what he was capable of.

He isn't as good as we thought or had hoped.
Ratboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2011, 11:59 PM   #4
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
Manning has also thrown 4 Interceptions in a game.

Want to know the difference? Those were very bad games for proven passers. We relied on Tebow to throw the ball and he showed what he was capable of.

He isn't as good as we thought or had hoped.

This entire post is a joke, right? You have determined Tebow will get no better simply because of one bad afternoon?


Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 12:01 AM   #5
NFLBRONCO
Ring of Famer
 
NFLBRONCO's Avatar
 
Go Nuggets Go Lakers

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lafayette Colorado
Posts: 8,089
Default

I'm not sold on Tebow past 2012 but, let's be fair a bit.

1. He needs more games
2. He needs more speed gamebreaking talent on O to help him out esp in this offense.
3. He needs OTA's to work with his coaches more in offseason open up gameplans
4. Wasn't thrilled with picks but, at least we were throwing ball
5. I'm not sure how you can develop Tebow to be a better passer only throwing 4 times a half. Even if you think he can cut it in NFL or not
6. Fling the ball around more see what he needs to work on this offseason.
He needs to get better feel of the rush and making quicker decisions that comes with game reps throwing the ball more then 4 times.


I'll be really curious how much the FO will actually bolster O this offseason.

Last edited by NFLBRONCO; 12-26-2011 at 12:13 AM..
NFLBRONCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 12:25 AM   #6
Bronco_Beerslug
Angling in the Deep
 
Bronco_Beerslug's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
Posts: 24,234
Default

Her comparing Tebow INTs to Brady INTs might not be that good of an idea until maybe Tebow is around awhile.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------
NFL RECORDS

Most consecutive passes, None intercepted, season: 358, Tom Brady, October 24, 2010-September 12, 2011

Most consecutive passes, None intercepted to start a career: 162, Tom Brady, 2000-2001

Most consecutive games, 2+ touchdown passes, no interceptions: 9, Tom Brady, 2010

Most games with 300 yards passing and no interceptions, season 8, Tom Brady 2007
  • Most games with 1+ touchdown pass and no interceptions, season 14, Tom Brady 2010
  • Most games with 2 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season 11, Tom Brady 2010
  • Most games with 3 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season 8, Tom Brady 2007
  • Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season 5, Tom Brady 2007
  • Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career 12, Tom Brady 2000–2010, Brett Favre 1991–2010
  • Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season 3, Tom Brady 2007
Most games with 6 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career 2, Tom Brady 2000–2010, Peyton Manning 1998–2010

Most games with 20 completions and no interceptions, season 10, Tom Brady 2007

Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, season 5, Tom Brady 2007, Drew Brees 2011

Most games with 30 pass attempts and no interceptions, season 8, Peyton Manning 2006 2010, Marc Bulger 2006, Tom Brady 2003, Drew Bledsoe 2002, Drew Brees 2011

Most games with 50 pass attempts and no interceptions, career 3, Tom Brady 2000–2010

Largest touchdown pass–interception differential, season: 42 (50–8) Tom Brady, 2007
  • Largest touchdown pass–interception ratio, season: 9.0-1 (36-4) Tom Brady, 2010 (mininimum 12 TD passes)
  • Largest passing yards–interception ratio, career: 337.3-1 (34,744-103) Tom Brady, 2000-present (mininimum 20,000 passing yards)
  • Largest passing yards–interception ratio, season: 975.0-1 (3,900-4) Tom Brady, 2010 (mininimum 2,000 passing yards)
Largest completion–interception ratio, season: 81.0-1 (324-4) Tom Brady 2010, (mininimum 150 completions)
Bronco_Beerslug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 12:29 AM   #7
Doggcow
Please Help Rebel
 
Doggcow's Avatar
 
http://www.gofundme.com/cvqzik

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,968

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
This entire post is a joke, right? You have determined Tebow will get no better simply because of one bad afternoon?


TEBOW IS NOT HELD TO NORMAL STANDARDS. IF TEBOW WINS 6 GAMES IN A ROW IT'S 6 FLUKES AND IF HE LOSES A GAME IT'S BECAUSE HE'S THE WORST QB EVER AND SHOULDN'T MAKE MISTAKES, ESPECIALLY SINCE HE HAS FEWER THAN 16 STARTS IN THE NFL, HE NEEDS PERFECT MECHANICS AND NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO READ DEFENSES, LIKE MANNING DID IN HIS FIRST 16--- errp...
Doggcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 12:34 AM   #8
Bronco_Beerslug
Angling in the Deep
 
Bronco_Beerslug's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
Posts: 24,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggcow View Post
TEBOW IS NOT HELD TO NORMAL STANDARDS. IF TEBOW WINS 6 GAMES IN A ROW IT'S 6 FLUKES AND IF HE LOSES A GAME IT'S BECAUSE HE'S THE WORST QB EVER .
That's what will become clear in the near future. I know I'd rather watch Tebow QBing the Broncos than Orton anyday (so far).
Bronco_Beerslug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 12:43 AM   #9
Doggcow
Please Help Rebel
 
Doggcow's Avatar
 
http://www.gofundme.com/cvqzik

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,968

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug View Post
That's what will become clear in the near future. I know I'd rather watch Tebow QBing the Broncos than Orton anyday (so far).
When he does it 100% of the time, I think it's pretty damn telling.
Doggcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 05:42 AM   #10
Spider
Mr Diplomacy
 
Spider's Avatar
 
I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane

Join Date: May 2001
Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder
Posts: 84,163

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

WOW you people are ****ing hard up for some good Tebow news .......... well if it woks for ya , more power to ya
Spider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 06:53 AM   #11
orinjkrush
...
 
orinjkrush's Avatar
 
Hey, no hurling on the shell, dude,

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: FrontRangeAbove8500ft
Posts: 5,181

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ben Garland
Default

if the Oline did a better job in the rushing dept, they wouldn't have had to throw as much.

time for the oline to show up
orinjkrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 07:07 AM   #12
Spider
Mr Diplomacy
 
Spider's Avatar
 
I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane

Join Date: May 2001
Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder
Posts: 84,163

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orinjkrush View Post
if the Oline did a better job in the rushing dept, they wouldn't have had to throw as much.

time for the oline to show up
Rolling Pocket .......Need some Shanny O
Spider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 08:38 AM   #13
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,725

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

It makes sense for a team to develop a passing game, they kind of have to do it or at least try. You don't get better at something by avoiding it and only doing it when you have no other choice.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 08:40 AM   #14
Broncos4tw
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggcow View Post
TEBOW IS NOT HELD TO NORMAL STANDARDS. IF TEBOW WINS 6 GAMES IN A ROW IT'S 6 FLUKES
But Tim didn't really win those games. He may have come back in the end to produce some miraculous finishes, but the strength of our running attack (of which he was part of), and especially our defense, is why we won those games. We hardly lit up the scoreboard in those games, and it was said repeatedly, what would happen if we had to pass to catch up to a high scoring team? Answer: look at what the Patriots did to us.

Not that I don't think Tim can't produce given a solid offseason. It's possible. Not saying completely likely though. His sheer desire to win, and his work ethic may be the difference. But to blindly say all the wins were solely due to Tebow is really closing your eyes to the facts.
Broncos4tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 08:52 AM   #15
Gort
Ring of Famer
 
Go Broncos!

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
This entire post is a joke, right? You have determined Tebow will get no better simply because of one bad afternoon?


it's not worth arguing with people who have a shallow understanding of the game.

the headline is that Tebow had 4 INTs, as if that's why we lost the game.

those 4 INTs were incidental to the outcome. Tebow didn't throw his first INT until very late in the 3rd quarter, when we were already down by 2 scores. we'd have been down even more if their FG kicker hadn't missed two early FGs. those INTs by Tebow were in desperation time when we were already getting our collective asses handed to us. bad defense. atrocious special teams. awful offensive playcalling. terrible gameplan and preparation. zero adjustments during the 2nd quarter. lousy, partisan refs. and the Broncos OL was terrible as well. Tebow didn't have a great game, but how do you put the blame on a guy who is asked to handoff the ball pretty much every play in the first half? Tebow is still a young QB. he's got to get better. not because he's a liability, but because he is still lacking some skills that would help us get out of these early holes.

but the dumb people, who don't know what they are talking about, will focus on the 4 INTs and claim that's why the Broncos lost. if Tebow had thrown an INT in every quarter, i'd probably agree. but all 4 of them came in the final 17 minutes (or thereabout) when we were already down and getting manhandled.

Last edited by Gort; 12-26-2011 at 08:54 AM..
Gort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 08:59 AM   #16
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,725

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
it's not worth arguing with people who have a shallow understanding of the game.

the headline is that Tebow had 4 INTs, as if that's why we lost the game.

those 4 INTs were incidental to the outcome. Tebow didn't throw his first INT until very late in the 3rd quarter, when we were already down by 2 scores. we'd have been down even more if their FG kicker hadn't missed two early FGs. those INTs by Tebow were in desperation time when we were already getting our collective asses handed to us. bad defense. atrocious special teams. awful offensive playcalling. terrible gameplan and preparation. zero adjustments during the 2nd quarter. lousy, partisan refs. and the Broncos OL was terrible as well. Tebow didn't have a great game, but how do you put the blame on a guy who is asked to handoff the ball pretty much every play in the first half? Tebow is still a young QB. he's got to get better. not because he's a liability, but because he is still lacking some skills that would help us get out of these early holes.

but the dumb people, who don't know what they are talking about, will focus on the 4 INTs and claim that's why the Broncos lost. if Tebow had thrown an INT in every quarter, i'd probably agree. but all 4 of them came in the final 17 minutes (or thereabout) when we were already down and getting manhandled.
Very true. Interceptions are not great, but some want to pretend those picks led to the loss when the team was not doing well long before the picks started. The Broncos were down 17-7 at the half not stopping the run at all.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 08:59 AM   #17
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,053
Default

Comparing Brady's and Tebow's respective performances against Buffalo is a bit ridiculous considering Brady threw for 387 yards and 4 td's and led his offense to 31 points in that game. By comparison Tebow threw for 185 yards, 1 td and 14 points.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 09:03 AM   #18
cmhargrove
Is this thing on???
 
cmhargrove's Avatar
 
Travis Henry's love child...

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,723

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Hillis
Default

Special Teams killed us (and the refs). There's no need to over-analyze this game, we played horrible team football. Not a single part of our team was functioning well, but the Special Teams mistakes were more than any team could handle (including the Patriots or Packers).

Let's move on to the KC game, and build some momentum for the playoffs. Hopefully, we can get at least one of our young Safeties to step up and play like a pro in the weeks to come...
cmhargrove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 01:16 PM   #19
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

It wasn't Tebow that was exposed.. it was the entire offense... the coach should take the most blame though.

Fox's entire gameplan is built around relying on the defense... and that tanked horribly. Then Tebow is put in the horrible position of trying to dig out of that hole in a very short period of time with a weak offense.

Fox banked on Orton early in the season and it blew up in his face.. now he is banking on the defense and it's blowing up in his face once again. The games Tebow won were in spite of this flawed strategy not because of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 01:17 PM   #20
MacGruder
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Comparing Brady's and Tebow's respective performances against Buffalo is a bit ridiculous considering Brady threw for 387 yards and 4 td's and led his offense to 31 points in that game. By comparison Tebow threw for 185 yards, 1 td and 14 points.
Yes but Tebow has a much worse coach... far less experience, far fewer offensive weapons and his coach handcuffed him the whole game and then asked him to bail them out in the worst situation imaginable...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 01:20 PM   #21
Doggcow
Please Help Rebel
 
Doggcow's Avatar
 
http://www.gofundme.com/cvqzik

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,968

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncos4tw View Post
But Tim didn't really win those games. He may have come back in the end to produce some miraculous finishes, but the strength of our running attack (of which he was part of), and especially our defense, is why we won those games. We hardly lit up the scoreboard in those games, and it was said repeatedly, what would happen if we had to pass to catch up to a high scoring team? Answer: look at what the Patriots did to us.

Not that I don't think Tim can't produce given a solid offseason. It's possible. Not saying completely likely though. His sheer desire to win, and his work ethic may be the difference. But to blindly say all the wins were solely due to Tebow is really closing your eyes to the facts.
Ok, so, when the ST, and Defense drop the ball, it's TEBOW'S FAULT IF WE DON'T CATCH UP. But when Tebow WINS A GAME THAT'S WITHIN REACH, it's because the rest of the team is so damn good.

Plus he prayed for Barber to step out of bounds.
Doggcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #22
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
those 4 INTs were incidental to the outcome.
I think this is dubious to say the least. The Broncos were only down 23-14 when that first int was thrown. The Bills took over on Denver's 27 and the D stopped them to force a FG making the score 26-14. So that int took it from a TD+FG needed to win to needing 2 TD's, and thanks to the D stepping up it wasn't worse. Denver's O took over again needing to score and got 1 1st down on a penalty and then went 3 and out. The D stepped up and stopped the Bills again. So the O got yet another chance. Tebow proceeded to throw 2 int's for TD's.

So Tebow's 1st int started the slide from it being a manageable deficit to a more difficult one. The D stepped up twice, the O failed, and then turned the ball over twice. No way you can blame the D down the stretch. It was all about the O and turnovers.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 01:58 PM   #23
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,385
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
This entire post is a joke, right? You have determined Tebow will get no better simply because of one bad afternoon?


other than a few passes per game, what exactly have you seen that makes you think the bills game was just one bad game by tim?
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #24
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,725

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
other than a few passes per game, what exactly have you seen that makes you think the bills game was just one bad game by tim?
A few passes is all he gets sometimes, so a QB to develop in an offense needs a training camp getting most of the snaps, which Tebow hasn't gotten yet, and throwing more than a handful of passes per half, especially the first half of games.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2011, 02:07 PM   #25
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,385
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
A few passes is all he gets sometimes, so a QB to develop in an offense needs a training camp getting most of the snaps, which Tebow hasn't gotten yet, and throwing more than a handful of passes per half, especially the first half of games.
so who is throwing all of the 1st team passes in practice since the bye week?
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Denver Broncos