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Old 12-19-2011, 11:42 PM   #1
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Default 4th and 1

In retrospect, I am thinking what a stupid decision to kick the FG. Denver had a penalty, which the Patriots declined, instead, giving Denver a 4th and short situation around the Patriots 10. Absolutely should have went for the 1st down, need touchdowns to beat NE, not FG's.

Here is the thing though...Remember earlier in the season, Broncos had a similar situation, Jets game. 4th and 1 deep in opponent territory. Broncos went for it, it was a McGahee run up the middle and he was stuffed. Fox said "stupid decision of me, I'll never do that again".

Fox is too damn stupid to realize that a handoff up the middle rarely works in short yardage situations when the defense is stacking the middle in the box. Instead, put the ball in Tebow's hands. Maybe even let him pass (gasp!), ala Brady on New England's 4th and 1 situation. An opposing team would NEVER expect Denver to allow Tebow to pass in a short yardage situation, especially on 4th down. A play action, and there is bound to be an uncovered receiver for an easy pitch and catch.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:16 AM   #2
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That decision was a microcosm of the entire game. Belichick doing everything to get the ball out of Tebow's hands and Fox/McCoy being unwitting accomplices.

When else would you see a team with a porous defense like the Pats, already gashed multiple times in the run game, give a team a 4th and 1 inside the red zone instead of making it a 3rd and 16? Belichick knew that on 3rd and 16 he was surrendering another shot at the end zone to Tebow and that was the last thing he wanted. So he used Fox's own over conservative mindset against him to help take momentum.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:29 AM   #3
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It was a fine decision. Not like it came anywhere close to costing us the game.

Every fan wants to go for it on 4th and short. It's rarely the right decision.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:15 AM   #4
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Fox is too damn stupid
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:43 AM   #5
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In retrospect, I am thinking what a stupid decision to kick the FG. Denver had a penalty, which the Patriots declined, instead, giving Denver a 4th and short situation around the Patriots 10. Absolutely should have went for the 1st down, need touchdowns to beat NE, not FG's.

Here is the thing though...Remember earlier in the season, Broncos had a similar situation, Jets game. 4th and 1 deep in opponent territory. Broncos went for it, it was a McGahee run up the middle and he was stuffed. Fox said "stupid decision of me, I'll never do that again".

Fox is too damn stupid to realize that a handoff up the middle rarely works in short yardage situations when the defense is stacking the middle in the box. Instead, put the ball in Tebow's hands. Maybe even let him pass (gasp!), ala Brady on New England's 4th and 1 situation. An opposing team would NEVER expect Denver to allow Tebow to pass in a short yardage situation, especially on 4th down. A play action, and there is bound to be an uncovered receiver for an easy pitch and catch.
I like this in theory but it's not just Fox calling plays, McCoy is still our OC and I think that's a little to "out of the box" for his thinking.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:29 AM   #6
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classic case of Belichek knowing exactly what the guy on the other sideline is going to do...he was absolutely positive that Fox would kick that field goal, thats why he declined the penalty. He basically put his nuts on the table and made Fox sit down to pee
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:53 AM   #7
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I spoke on this several times yesterday. Fox has to be willing to take chances especially against teams like the Pats. We go up by 13 there and some pressure is added to start chucking the ball all over the yard for NE.

To defend Fox, I will say we had just made a stop so maybe he felt we would be able to hold the Pats more frequently. That stop had less to do with our defense than Brady just needing to settle down and get into the rhythm of the game though.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:03 AM   #8
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never leave points on the field , thats a no brainer , we can second guess every play call , fact is turning the ball over 3 consecutive times was the final nail on the crosss.... err coffin
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:04 AM   #9
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That decision was a microcosm of the entire game. Belichick doing everything to get the ball out of Tebow's hands and Fox/McCoy being unwitting accomplices.

When else would you see a team with a porous defense like the Pats, already gashed multiple times in the run game, give a team a 4th and 1 inside the red zone instead of making it a 3rd and 16? Belichick knew that on 3rd and 16 he was surrendering another shot at the end zone to Tebow and that was the last thing he wanted. So he used Fox's own over conservative mindset against him to help take momentum.

Excellent reply. Sums up my feelings perfectly. Fox just got outcoached plain and simple. But then again, Bill Belichick is Bill Belichick and John Fox is John Fox.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:06 AM   #10
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never leave points on the field , thats a no brainer , we can second guess every play call , fact is turning the ball over 3 consecutive times was the final nail on the crosss.... err coffin
See, this is what I don't get about this type of reply. A FG Attempt is not automatic points on the board.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:07 AM   #11
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Excellent reply. Sums up my feelings perfectly. Fox just got outcoached plain and simple. But then again, Bill Belichick is Bill Belichick and John Fox is John Fox.
really ? are you really going there?
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:08 AM   #12
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See, this is what I don't get about this type of reply. A FG Attempt is not automatic points on the board.
Nothing in football is automatic , Not a dayum thing , even going for it on 4 th and 1
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:09 AM   #13
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really ? are you really going there?
Yes. I don't think John Fox is done an overall good job with the Broncos. The good things he has done with the defense and special teams is grossly outweighed by the mishandling of Tim Tebow, from claiming that Orton "gave them a better chance to win" to the handling of Tim Tebow on and off the field since going with him in week 5.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:10 AM   #14
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Nothing in football is automatic , Not a dayum thing , even going for it on 4 th and 1
Exactly right. So you would go with a not-automatic that could lead to 3 points or the not-automatic that could lead to 7 points?
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:12 AM   #15
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I think most knew the Broncos were going to have to score a lot to win this game considering how the defense has played against good offense this year. So going for it probably would be the right move, but Fox is a conservative, defensive-minded type of coach, so someone on staff would have to do a great sell job to get him to take chances.

Phil Simms had it right where he stated Fox likes what he has right now. An offense that runs the majority of the time and a QB who does not turn it over much. Which is making me wonder now just how creative will they be with Tebow next year.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:16 AM   #16
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Exactly right. So you would go with a not-automatic that could lead to 3 points or the not-automatic that could lead to 7 points?
I want you to prove to me , that even if we get the 1 st down , we get 7 points .....cant wait to hear this
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:49 AM   #17
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classic case of Belichek knowing exactly what the guy on the other sideline is going to do...he was absolutely positive that Fox would kick that field goal, thats why he declined the penalty. He basically put his nuts on the table and made Fox sit down to pee
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:01 AM   #18
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Yes. I don't think John Fox is done an overall good job with the Broncos. The good things he has done with the defense and special teams is grossly outweighed by the mishandling of Tim Tebow, from claiming that Orton "gave them a better chance to win" to the handling of Tim Tebow on and off the field since going with him in week 5.
Tebow was the leading rusher, passer, and scorer against the Patriots. Allowing him less than 25 yards of output in the 2nd and 3rd quarter is retarded. Elway and Fox are retarded.

Allowing them to get away with sabotaging Tebow is retarded.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:04 AM   #19
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Phil Simms had it right where he stated Fox likes what he has right now. An offense that runs the majority of the time and a QB who does not turn it over much. Which is making me wonder now just how creative will they be with Tebow next year.
Elway could not have hired a better coach to keep Tebow underwraps. Why in the hell are these two guys not fired yet? These Anti-Tebow clowns need to be run out of town.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:21 AM   #20
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Too early in the game, take the points
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:30 AM   #21
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It was a fine decision. Not like it came anywhere close to costing us the game.

Every fan wants to go for it on 4th and short. It's rarely the right decision.
This.

This is why coaching in the NFL is such a ridiculously hard job. If he'd have gone for it and not made it, there would be legions of fans screaming "WHY NOT TAKE THE AUTOMATIC POINTS THAT COULD HAVE TURNED THE MOMENTUM ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE!!!11!1!11!one!"

Get over yourself. It was the right decision at the right time. Turnovers cost us the game, and this decision had zero effect on the game.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:30 AM   #22
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I would have liked for the Broncos to go for it.

But really, as others have said, the turnovers really make it a moot point. Not going for it isn't what lost the game, 3 turnovers in the 2nd quarter did.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:36 AM   #23
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I want you to prove to me , that even if we get the 1 st down , we get 7 points .....cant wait to hear this
Nothing is automatic, but a first down keeps the hope 7 points becomes reality, a FG automatically kills any hope of getting 7 points on that possession.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:38 AM   #24
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We should never kick field goals or punt. We shouldn't even pass. RUSHING TD OR BUST.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:41 AM   #25
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I want you to prove to me , that even if we get the 1 st down , we get 7 points .....cant wait to hear this
Spider must have taken his vitamins today because he has the point. The 7 or 4th and one is not guaranteed and at that early point of the game, the 3 points puts a ton of pressure on the Pats. At that time, kick the field goal.
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