The History of the US in Iraq

[Popcorn Sutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phu7gqr6jVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=paHgvmSNmBs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PDBx42DIw58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M24t4...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7H2_vnYkAas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=VAe2JkKQeFo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Oz2O0EkithY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XpCckZHw8aw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=Dw1shNmnbiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=Dw1shNmnbiU

[ant1999e]

Good riddance to that shythole.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Originally Posted by ant1999e

Good riddance to that shythole.

The shythole we helped create.... Nice.

[Rohirrim]

I hope the era of continuous American interference is coming to an end.

[W*GS]

The biggest fackup since Vietnam.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I hope the era of continuous American interference is coming to an end.

Something we can most definitely agree on.

[ghwk]

All depends if more republican neo-cons get elected or not. As I read about getting out this morning I marveled at what a waste we put our servicemen through and the families that lost sons, wives, husbands, and daughters not to mention all those coming home with PTSD and other issues.

And for what? Lies to justify starting it and the desire to nation build in the most *****ed up region of the planet.

Nice job George, Dick, Donald, and Karl. You should all be in prison.

[Popcorn Sutton]

We shouldn't kid ourselves either. It's all a shell game. The troops are leaving Iraq and being replaced by 17,000+ contractors that cost 3 times as much. We are building a massive embassy in Iraq and many of the troops from Iraq have been shifted to other parts of the Persian Gulf. Our government and the U.N. don't seem to give a damn about sovereignty and blowback.

For those praising Obama: He wanted to keep troops in Iraq past the Dec 2011 deadline:

U.S. troops are leaving Iraq by the end of the year because the Iraqi government rejected American demands for forces to be shielded from prosecution and lawsuits, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said, according to the Associated Press.
While President Obama made the announcement on Friday that all troops would be withdrawn by Dec. 31—under the terms of a 2008 security agreement—his administration had pushed for troops to stay for longer, due to continued violence. The administration asked for immunity for its troops.
"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible,” the AP quoted al-Maliki as saying. “The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started.”

My fear is that we'll never leave Iraq. My other fear is that this was the plan all along.

[ant1999e]

Originally Posted by BrewCrew

The shythole we helped create.... Nice.

It was always a shythole. We just made it a different kind of shythole.

[pricejj]

There are 102,000 troops in Afghanistan (70,000 more than when Bush left office). And now, an additional 40,000 troops in Kuwait.

[Tombstone RJ]

We are still spending billions of dollars on Iraq and Ron Paul pointed this out in his debate where he highlighted the cost of the US Embassy in Iraq--estimated at $1.2 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! This is a US government estimate so of course you are guaranteed that it will cost more like $3 billion a year.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

We are still spending billions of dollars on Iraq and Ron Paul pointed this out in his debate where he highlighted the cost of the US Embassy in Iraq--estimated at $1.2 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR! This is a US government estimate so of course you are guaranteed that it will cost more like $3 billion a year.

Where were all of you arm chair QBs in 2003 out (8 years under Bush)? We never heard a peep out of you unless it was to cheer on that clusterf&%k.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Where were all of you arm chair QBs in 2003 out (8 years under Bush)? We never heard a peep out of you unless it was to cheer on that clusterf&%k.

I went back and searched my posts on Iraq and found this: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...highlight=Iraq

Please not post #18 where I said: I haven't ever, once, been "proud" of the leadership skills of our leaders on Capital Hill (in my lifetime).

I really can't remember a time when I have not thought to myself "I could make better decisions then that clown, or those boobs."

Politics suck. Our leadership, across the board is questionable, and there is too much apathy in our population to do much about it.

and post #46 where I said: I have to disagree. Why change the rules or standards for judgement? Pearl Harbor happened too, yet I don't think Roosevelt should be judged differently than any other president because he just happened to be sitting in the Whitehouse.

This is why we elect our leaders. To lead us. To make the difficult decisions. To step up and do the right thing. To inspire us to be better. This is why we need the best and brightest at the top. It doesn't get any more difficult than 9/11 and I refuse to say "well, damn, look at what he had to deal with, we need to go easy on this guy." Nope, sorry, doesn't work like that.

and post #82 where I said: Exactly. The system is not working the way the Forefathers envisioned. For a Democracy to work, first and foremost, you have to have an educated population. If you don't, you run the risk of electing questionable leaders. When I read the posts on this board, I feel good about the people here, and I can have an educated conversation about politics. But, if I look around alot of America, I see too much apathy, and either uneducated voices screaming at me, or radical left wingers or right wingers telling me how to vote.

For a democracy to thrive, it takes everyone to understand the issues, and make a real effort to address those issues through electing officials who can get the job done. However, in the politics of today, I see less and less leadership, and more and more money being thrown around. GWB was not the best leader the Republicans could have put on their platform. They propped him up because he tows the party line, and has a boat load of money.

And as for the Democrats, well, I don't know how they come up with their party leaders. Kerry has alot of money, and he tows the party line, so I guess that got him on the ballot.

This country needs a viable third party.

and post #99 where I said: I never said I hate anyone on Capital Hill. I don't hate GWB. I don't hate the Democrats, I don't hate the Senate and the House.

But that is totally different that being "proud" of our elected officials.

It's my right as an American citizen. No, its my responsibility as an American citizen to question our "leaders." I've never advocated blind patriotism, nor have I advocated anarchy. I only advocate being educated on the issues. That means listening to all points of view, no matter how radical. It also means being responsible in how one votes on the issues. I'm preaching empowerement through knowledge, not blind homerism.

and post #107 where I said: War is the last option, not the first. One has to analyze closely the ramifications of going to war. Invetibly, wars boil down to one thing: money. Why are we in Iraq? Is it because Hussien was a bad person, hiding weapons?

OR WAS IT BECAUSE HUSSIEN WAS CONVERTING IRAQ TO THE EURO DOLLAR (THROUGH THE ****ING FRENCH AND GERMANS).

Its all about keeping the US dollar competitive. Now, do I agree with the way GWB went about keeping the Iraq Economy under the US dollar, no. BUT DO I UNDERSTAND WHY GWB AND COMPANY WENT TO WAR... yes. I'm pretty pragmatic like that. However, its a big **** sandwich now, with no guarantees that the new government will last (see my post on what it takes to maintain a Democracy).

Bush did it the wrong way. I could have done a better job than him, but that is JMHO.

The Cold War was not a clash of two great military powers. It wasn't even a clash of two powerful and opposing ideologies (although the politicians want you to believe that). It was a clash of two ECONOMIC PHILOSOPHIES. In the end, the US simply outspent the communists. That's all Reagan did. He outspent the dumbass Russians. He destroyed their economy. Point blank.

I could go on but it's not necessary. I've proven my point...

[Popcorn Sutton]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Where were all of you arm chair QBs in 2003 out (8 years under Bush)? We never heard a peep out of you unless it was to cheer on that clusterf&%k.

I've always been against the Iraq war tough guy and I DO NOT support Bush. Feel free to research.

[ant1999e]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I went back and searched my posts on Iraq and found this: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...highlight=Iraq

Please not post #18 where I said: I haven't ever, once, been "proud" of the leadership skills of our leaders on Capital Hill (in my lifetime).

I really can't remember a time when I have not thought to myself "I could make better decisions then that clown, or those boobs."

Politics suck. Our leadership, across the board is questionable, and there is too much apathy in our population to do much about it.

and post #46 where I said: I have to disagree. Why change the rules or standards for judgement? Pearl Harbor happened too, yet I don't think Roosevelt should be judged differently than any other president because he just happened to be sitting in the Whitehouse.

This is why we elect our leaders. To lead us. To make the difficult decisions. To step up and do the right thing. To inspire us to be better. This is why we need the best and brightest at the top. It doesn't get any more difficult than 9/11 and I refuse to say "well, damn, look at what he had to deal with, we need to go easy on this guy." Nope, sorry, doesn't work like that.

and post #82 where I said: Exactly. The system is not working the way the Forefathers envisioned. For a Democracy to work, first and foremost, you have to have an educated population. If you don't, you run the risk of electing questionable leaders. When I read the posts on this board, I feel good about the people here, and I can have an educated conversation about politics. But, if I look around alot of America, I see too much apathy, and either uneducated voices screaming at me, or radical left wingers or right wingers telling me how to vote.

For a democracy to thrive, it takes everyone to understand the issues, and make a real effort to address those issues through electing officials who can get the job done. However, in the politics of today, I see less and less leadership, and more and more money being thrown around. GWB was not the best leader the Republicans could have put on their platform. They propped him up because he tows the party line, and has a boat load of money.

And as for the Democrats, well, I don't know how they come up with their party leaders. Kerry has alot of money, and he tows the party line, so I guess that got him on the ballot.

This country needs a viable third party.

and post #99 where I said: I never said I hate anyone on Capital Hill. I don't hate GWB. I don't hate the Democrats, I don't hate the Senate and the House.

But that is totally different that being "proud" of our elected officials.

It's my right as an American citizen. No, its my responsibility as an American citizen to question our "leaders." I've never advocated blind patriotism, nor have I advocated anarchy. I only advocate being educated on the issues. That means listening to all points of view, no matter how radical. It also means being responsible in how one votes on the issues. I'm preaching empowerement through knowledge, not blind homerism.

and post #107 where I said: War is the last option, not the first. One has to analyze closely the ramifications of going to war. Invetibly, wars boil down to one thing: money. Why are we in Iraq? Is it because Hussien was a bad person, hiding weapons?

OR WAS IT BECAUSE HUSSIEN WAS CONVERTING IRAQ TO THE EURO DOLLAR (THROUGH THE ****ING FRENCH AND GERMANS).

Its all about keeping the US dollar competitive. Now, do I agree with the way GWB went about keeping the Iraq Economy under the US dollar, no. BUT DO I UNDERSTAND WHY GWB AND COMPANY WENT TO WAR... yes. I'm pretty pragmatic like that. However, its a big **** sandwich now, with no guarantees that the new government will last (see my post on what it takes to maintain a Democracy).

Bush did it the wrong way. I could have done a better job than him, but that is JMHO.

The Cold War was not a clash of two great military powers. It wasn't even a clash of two powerful and opposing ideologies (although the politicians want you to believe that). It was a clash of two ECONOMIC PHILOSOPHIES. In the end, the US simply outspent the communists. That's all Reagan did. He outspent the dumbass Russians. He destroyed their economy. Point blank.

I could go on but it's not necessary. I've proven my point...

Tombstone Slug. I love it.

[ant1999e]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Where were all of you arm chair QBs in 2003 out (8 years under Bush)? We never heard a peep out of you unless it was to cheer on that clusterf&%k.

Funny thing is, you sure are quiet about it all now aren't you? With all your talk about Obama getting us out of Iraq when all he's doing is following the Bush deadline. Funny thing is, he wanted to keep us there longer but Iraq said no.