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Old 11-18-2011, 06:47 AM   #1
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Default Amazing all that Tebow has overcome

The more I think about it, the more I am stunned at what Tebow has been able to overcome.

1)The notion from the coaching staff that Kyle Orton gave them the best chance to win.

2)An overall perception from his coaching staff and management that they don't believe in him.

3)A national media, and some of the local media who try to claim that he cannot be successful as an NFL quarterback.

4)Horrid playcalling that cripples an offense.

5)Injuries to running backs.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver.

Last edited by Vine; 11-18-2011 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:50 AM   #2
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when time comes to take the team on his back, he DOES it.
something Orton, Griese, Plummer couldn't do.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:52 AM   #3
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C'mon man. Plummer won us a lot of games. He lost us a huge won against Pittsburgh granted, but he won us a lot of games himself.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:54 AM   #4
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I still say this front office is really stupid for not playing Tebow right away. We saw this last season. Orton continually fails. Tebow won a game and did far better against two common opponents. It would be nice to have a front office that believes what they see on tape. This and giving away the receivers are the only things I can complain about though. They have brought in talent and are now winning games. Keep it up!

Oh, and McCoy still needs to go.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:58 AM   #5
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The Broncos have a very functional D. That has kept the Broncos in games, and has allowed the O to putter it's way to scores. TEBOW plays well enough when the chips are down. He does seem to have a strong competitive drive that is complemented by other players stepping up as well. TEBOW gets too much credit for the wins, and too much grief for the poor passing game.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:58 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Vine View Post
The more I think about it, the more I am stunned at what Tebow has been able to overcome.

1)The notion from the coaching staff that Kyle Orton gave them the best chance to win.

2)An overall perception from his coaching staff and management that they don't believe in him.

3)A national media, and some of the local media who try to claim that he cannot be successful as an NFL quarterback.

4)Horrid playcalling that cripples an offense.

5)Injuries to running backs.

Oh damn. I knew I was forgetting something.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver. Original message edited to include this.

Last edited by Vine; 11-18-2011 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:05 AM   #7
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The Broncos have a very functional D. That has kept the Broncos in games, and has allowed the O to putter it's way to scores. TEBOW plays well enough when the chips are down. He does seem to have a strong competitive drive that is complemented by other players stepping up as well. TEBOW gets too much credit for the wins, and too much grief for the poor passing game.
Too much credit? He took over a 1-4 team. He has gone 4-1...

The entire team is playing well. You can't take away from the difference Tebow has made though. He is 5-3 with a 4-14 team.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:47 AM   #8
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I still say this front office is really stupid for not playing Tebow right away. We saw this last season. Orton continually fails. Tebow won a game and did far better against two common opponents. It would be nice to have a front office that believes what they see on tape. This and giving away the receivers are the only things I can complain about though. They have brought in talent and are now winning games. Keep it up!

Oh, and McCoy still needs to go.
I give McCoy a lot of credit for basically change their offensive focus with Tebow and being open to running different option looks. I think bringing a new OC would not be good for Tebow's development. I think he needs a coach to help him with just the throwing aspects, not the mental reading D aspect of QBing.

Yes McCoy has terrible playcalling moments, like calling two consecutive QB draws against KC, and the 3 straight runs in the second to last offensive possession against the Jets but it still looks to me they are trying to develop Tebow's mental capabilities by adding a little more and more to the game plans each week.

Once Tebow absolutely got crushed playing in basically Orton's offense against Detroit, they really went back to the drawing board and clearly made huge adjustments.

Obviously Tebow's has a long way to go throwing wise, but he is slowly starting to seem like he's get some of the mental things better. He's not getting sacked as much, and seems to be picking up blitzes presnap better. Whether that is McCoy calling for max protections, or the QB calling for max protection or good recognition, or DE's afraid to rush because of the threat for Tebow to run, (who knows - that is for someone who knows more about football than I do) there is improvement. There were only really one or two times I remember when they almost had delay of game penalties, Tebow doesn't commit turnovers, and he hasn't had any problems taking the ball from under center. A lot of this I think is coaching, and McCoy is a big part of that.

Last edited by Binkythefrog; 11-18-2011 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:50 AM   #9
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The talent surrounding him or lack thereof is laughable. Name another qb in the league that could take the team that we have and win this many games. I think some of the elite qbs probably could, but I am confident none of the mid-range qbs could do it.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:52 AM   #10
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I give McCoy a lot of credit for basically change their offensive focus with Tebow and being open to running different option looks. I think bringing a new OC would not be good for Tebow's development. I think he needs a coach to help him with just the throwing aspect, not the mental reading D aspect of QBing.

Yes McCoy has terrible playcalling moments, like calling two consecutive QB draws against KC, and the 3 straight runs in the second to last offensive possession against the Jets but it still looks to me they are trying to develop Tebow's mental capabilities by adding a little more and more to the game plans each week.

Once Tebow absolutely got crushed playing in basically Orton's offense against Detroit, they really went back to the drawing board and made clearly huge adjustments.

Obviously Tebow's has a long way to go throwing wise, but he is slowly starting to seem like he's get some of the mental things better. He's not getting sacked as much, and seems to be picking up blitzes presnap better. Whether that is McCoy calling for max protections, or the QB calling for max protection or good recognition, or DE's afraid to run rush because of the threat for Tebow to run who knows (that is for someone who knows more about football) but there is improvement. There was only really one or two times I remember when they almost had delay of game penalties, Tebow doesn't commit turnovers, he hasn't had any problems taking the ball from under center. A lot of this I think is coaching, and McCoy is a big part of that.
I can kind of agree. I wouldn't mind seeing what he does with a full offseason of creating an offense for Tebow. That said, I haven't liked the play calling for the past couple years. He had a lot of bad calls when Orton was in as well. Granted, he is probably only responsible for this year as McD called the plays before.

I really liked the calls on that first series even though we got stuffed on fourth down. It was very creative. I would love to see more of that.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Binkythefrog View Post
I give McCoy a lot of credit for basically change their offensive focus with Tebow and being open to running different option looks. I think bringing a new OC would not be good for Tebow's development. I think he needs a coach to help him with just the throwing aspect, not the mental reading D aspect of QBing.

Yes McCoy has terrible playcalling moments, like calling two consecutive QB draws against KC, and the 3 straight runs in the second to last offensive possession against the Jets but it still looks to me they are trying to develop Tebow's mental capabilities by adding a little more and more to the game plans each week.

Once Tebow absolutely got crushed playing in basically Orton's offense against Detroit, they really went back to the drawing board and made clearly huge adjustments.

Obviously Tebow's has a long way to go throwing wise, but he is slowly starting to seem like he's get some of the mental things better. He's not getting sacked as much, and seems to be picking up blitzes presnap better. Whether that is McCoy calling for max protections, or the QB calling for max protection or good recognition, or DE's afraid to run rush because of the threat for Tebow to run who knows (that is for someone who knows more about football) but there is improvement. There was only really one or two times I remember when they almost had delay of game penalties, Tebow doesn't commit turnovers, he hasn't had any problems taking the ball from under center. A lot of this I think is coaching, and McCoy is a big part of that.
Really good post.

I like what they're doing, protecting Tebow and letting him get comfortable in the offense before they ask him to do a lot of different things. Give the opposition a lot of long fields to work against and run the ball enough to make sure the coverages and blitzes aren't going to be very complex on the occasions when we do try some throws.

If the playcalling is still exactly the same this time next year then yes, that will be cause for concern. But I'm pretty sure it won't be.

I do think that with Tebow at QB we'll always be a team that runs the ball more often than some fans would like. For most teams a 3rd and 5 is a passing down every single time. I don't know if that will ever be the case for us with Tebow. We'll be a team that plays the field position game, runs the ball at teams a lot and makes them work hard to score points against us.

And if that's the case then sign me up, frankly.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:36 AM   #12
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Really good post.

I like what they're doing, protecting Tebow and letting him get comfortable in the offense before they ask him to do a lot of different things. Give the opposition a lot of long fields to work against and run the ball enough to make sure the coverages and blitzes aren't going to be very complex on the occasions when we do try some throws.

If the playcalling is still exactly the same this time next year then yes, that will be cause for concern. But I'm pretty sure it won't be.

I do think that with Tebow at QB we'll always be a team that runs the ball more often than some fans would like. For most teams a 3rd and 5 is a passing down every single time. I don't know if that will ever be the case for us with Tebow. We'll be a team that plays the field position game, runs the ball at teams a lot and makes them work hard to score points against us.

And if that's the case then sign me up, frankly.
I agree that 3rd and 5 does not have to be a passing down, but it absolutely cannot be handoff up-the-middle down.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:50 AM   #13
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:34 PM   #14
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Tebow has been overcoming doubters and naysayers on every level.

It's old hat for him
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:49 PM   #15
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Oh damn. I knew I was forgetting something.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver. Original message edited to include this.
In a conventional offense Lloyd was the best WR. In this style offense no way. He's not a stellar blocker and would no doubt be blowing up inside because he's not catching 10 balls per game. I think of of the reasons why he was traded because they knew they were going to this option style offense with a super heavy dose of run and this would have made Lloyd an average WR at best. Trade him asap and get the max value for him before he could blow up and become a cancer.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Vine View Post
The more I think about it, the more I am stunned at what Tebow has been able to overcome.

1)The notion from the coaching staff that Kyle Orton gave them the best chance to win.

2)An overall perception from his coaching staff and management that they don't believe in him.

3)A national media, and some of the local media who try to claim that he cannot be successful as an NFL quarterback.

4)Horrid playcalling that cripples an offense.

5)Injuries to running backs.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver.
Those are the tip of the iceberg. Tebow more than any other player in the league, was hurt by the lockout because he came here literally having never played under center and had significant mechanical issues to correct. With literally almost no reps in the McD regime, he was the #3 guy who carried the clipboard, and then when they threw him in as a starter last year he responded immediately even without the benefit of any real preparation in games, and with the lockout he had no OTA's or coaching contact over the summer, not to mention he had to sit once again behind Orton and got little or no practice reps under Fox either untill he had to start. Add in a rookie OT protecting his blind spot, injuires to both RB's, and Fox's decision to not play him in a conventional offense, thus further delaying his development as Steve Young pointed out. In point of fact, what he's done is really unprecedented. I can't recall any NFL QB who received so little in advance of playing this well this early. He's gonne be insanely good when he begins to "get it"...I would say about this time next season we will see dramatic improvement in the passing game with him.

Meanwhile, you can coach what he doesnt' have, but you can't coach what he's already got.

End of story.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:10 PM   #17
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In a conventional offense Lloyd was the best WR. In this style offense no way. He's not a stellar blocker and would no doubt be blowing up inside because he's not catching 10 balls per game. I think of of the reasons why he was traded because they knew they were going to this option style offense with a super heavy dose of run and this would have made Lloyd an average WR at best. Trade him asap and get the max value for him before he could blow up and become a cancer.

Oh right, so Lloyd doesn't make those catches that Decker has been dropping.....

And you claim that Lloyd would be unhappy if he didn't have 160 catches over a whole season?
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:27 PM   #18
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5)Injuries to running backs.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver.
I was arguing this with some Eagles fans today. The topic was Vick vs. Tebow. I explained how Vick has the benefit of LeSean McCoy, DeSean Jackson (one of the Eagles fans of course quipped how having DeSean wouldn't help Tebow throw any more accurately), and Jeremy Maclin, among others. And then I threw up in my mouth thinking about how the Broncos could have the first two instead of Moreno and Royal...
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:22 PM   #19
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The more I think about it, the more I am stunned at what Tebow has been able to overcome.

1)The notion from the coaching staff that Kyle Orton gave them the best chance to win.

2)An overall perception from his coaching staff and management that they don't believe in him.

3)A national media, and some of the local media who try to claim that he cannot be successful as an NFL quarterback.

4)Horrid playcalling that cripples an offense.

5)Injuries to running backs.

6)Trading away their best wide receiver.
You appear to be assuming Tebow was ready to do this week one without any factual support.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:23 PM   #20
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Oh right, so Lloyd doesn't make those catches that Decker has been dropping.....

And you claim that Lloyd would be unhappy if he didn't have 160 catches over a whole season?
Lloyd wanted out. Get over it.
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