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Old 11-08-2011, 09:47 PM   #151
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Among many things that need to be changed at Penn St, and certainly way down the list of priorities, but somebody should start thinking of new names for "Happy Valley" because that has less cache' than Neverland Ranch and Jesus Juice. Crappy Valley; where touching kids and changing lives is a way of life.

F those guys with a flaming AIDS tree.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:29 AM   #152
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Wow, shocked, disgusted and dissapointed. I dont know how the coach who saw this can sleep at night.

I do think Paterno is getting a bit too much blame based on what I read though, but thats just my view from what I have read.

Everytime a big case breaks about these pedo's though, its amazing how many times authority dropped the ball that let them continue to do it.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:42 AM   #153
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The second worst slimeball in this whole affair is the assistant, McQuealy, or whatever his name is. He saw what he saw. Such a sight should have been burned into his brain. Then, he tells his dad and Paterno, and when nothing happens, he just goes on with his life? Is he some kind of sociopath?
He's an assitant coach now right? Sandusky's been around campus as recently as last week right? You know he's seen Sandusky around. And yeah, he just goes on with his life and let's Sandusky go on with his? I don't get it.

This has to have been known in these tight circles for a long time and no one did anything about it.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:46 AM   #154
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Some of my thoughts on this.

The evidence as presented is damning. However, people have faced accusations like this before, and when investigated have been found innocent. (The daycare where there were reportedly orgies and satanic worship).

The people at PSU who knew of wildly inappropriate behavior and merely kicked it down the road and not tell the police disgust me. If you saw a 50 year old man doing something odd with a 10 year old why do you run off and NOT try to get to the kid?

If (benefit of the doubt) Sandusky is a pedophile, these 7 kids are not the only ones. These type of people dont just start raping kids out of the blue. Does anyone else think its weird to have an adult shower with young athletes? Is that normal? I played soccer, wrestled, did football and never had that happen.

My high school soccer coach would always make us shower after practice but we all would wear our shorts in the shower. He would be naked. He was also the coach of my cousins club team for years when we were younger. Lo and behold, he was convicted a molesting a kid at my high school a couple of years after I graduated. He was English and ended being deported. But, no, its not normal.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:52 AM   #155
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That same coach would also have kids stay in his hotel room when the club team traveled. This was my cousins club team. My cousin in kinda up tight and emotionless. We've grown apart over the years. I wonder if anything ever happened to him with this coach. But how do you ask that?
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:18 AM   #156
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The thing about it (and I'm sure I will have some people completely disagree with me on this) is that I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt. I bet he had some pretty complicated, elaborate equations that he used to justify his behavior.

He still deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'm glad I don't have to be the one to pass a final judgement on him. I think it will be complicated.

I think there must be something different in the genetic makeup of pedophiles. Sexual attraction to children is such a foreign concept to most of us. I just don't see how a person with normal sexual appetites ever gets there - even if it happens over time. Throw in the fact that it does such incredible harm to the victim - irreparable harm - and I can't imagine how even a narcissist could justify doing it.

During college, I worked as a psych tech at the state mental hospital. Part of that time was spent at the youth facility, where the vast majority of the patients have had sexual abuse in their history. These were basically throw-away kids - it was so heartbreaking. Most of them will be sexual offenders when they grow up - most will simply replicate relationships and activities that experienced as children. So, you have people like Sandusky decide that to fulfill a moment's sexual pleasure, it is worth ruining potentially generations of people.

Like I said, it's just not a process that evolves in a normal person's brain - even a selfish, deprived person. I don't think there's a way to rehabilitate it. You just have to lock them up, and never allow them to be in a position to do it again.
This is a great thought Dom. It's really risky in this environment of either/or mentality though

1. People are complicated, but we absolutely try to stereotype and simplify them for our own protection. People are perceived to be as good as their first impression minus their worst known behaviors. Now, Sandusky will be labeled as a child molester for the rest of his life. Period. Once labeled....

2. Judgement on this is not that complicated to me. He was going to be held to much higher standards being a coach and a volunteer for at risk boys. He voluntarily stepped into the role of PROTECTING these young men whose own families, ie fathers, abandoned them. He asked to be a mentor to them, and ended up abusing not only them but his role as a man and surrogate father. He will get what he deserves in this life or the next.

3. Children of abuse statistically either become champions for the cause if they deal with it, or abusers themselves if they do not. The vast majority of child abusers were abused themselves. It's not really genetics, its mostly environment. They may be more genetically predisposed because one of their parents was an abuser, but it's a lot more environment triggering that predisposition.

Almost always this is a learned response. They were usually the victim first and learned the behavior that way. It can be changed, but the person has to deal with the wounds that were inflicted on them first. I have worked with some guys who were horribly abused as children and they have come out the other side. However, most had not started to abuse children yet, they commited other serious felonies like dealing drugs and murder. Not many people want to work with convicted child molesters except people who were also abused and have come back from that.

4. Loyalty. People who have never had it, no nothing about it. College football is a loyalty to fans, players, and coaches. If you miss that in this, you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle. People make huge errors in judgement when they cover over the crimes to those they are loyal. Coaching staffs, programs, and teams develop intense loyalty to one another.

Sandusky was Paterno's great friend and comrade. When he heard about this incident, he made a choice to believe in his friend and do the bare minimum to cover his ass. He intentionally looked the other way on the incident based on his own statements to date. What he should have done is confront his friend and find out the truth. Immediately. Great friends do not cover for one another, they hold each other accountable. They confront evil and pursue justice even with their best friends. Great Leaders seek out the problems and deal with them, not sweep them under the rug and pray they are untrue. This is Joe Paterno's greatest failing to me. When faced with a hard problem, he let loyalty get in the way of confronting evil, pursuing justice, and helping the helpless.

I grade character as stepping up in extreme adversity. It is very easy to be high in character in good times, but the real test of a man occurs in times of extreme adversity. When faced with this, Paterno's character failed. He should have been the leader he wanted to be and faced this head on at the time. It was irresponsible to the title he held as Head Coach of PSU. It was shameful as a man and friend. And, it was downright pathetic as a human being.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:21 AM   #157
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Which is why PSU should have him immediately step down. Actually, once the grand jury testimony came out, they should have immediately fired him. It seems there is still some "loyalty" and "covering" going on.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:31 AM   #158
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What's even worse is the some part of the Students at PSU are supporting this behavior. Wow.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:32 AM   #159
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Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:35 AM   #160
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Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.
If they as a school want to put up with that kind of scrutiny...go ahead. I think it's as low class as it gets.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:40 AM   #161
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Which is why PSU should have him immediately step down. Actually, once the grand jury testimony came out, they should have immediately fired him. It seems there is still some "loyalty" and "covering" going on.
They can not do it that fast anymore You have to consult the laws, PR people, and Alumni first!
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:40 AM   #162
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while there are adult female sexual predators who typically were victims of abuse themselves, I think that generally the female adult survivors tend more to either learn to deal with the trauma of what happened to them, and the fact that they did not deserve it and make life choices to achieve some goal, while others remain victims entering into abusive relationships and suffering from substance abuse

Just that in thinking of the victims and perpetrators, imo the gender makes a bit of a difference in outcome. Males are less likely to be lifelong victims.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:42 AM   #163
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Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.
JoePa said thats when he would retire. It's still unclear if the University shares that idea.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:02 AM   #164
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JoePa said thats when he would retire. It's still unclear if the University shares that idea.
The folks in the cocoon at Perv. State U. are kidding themselves if they let Joe control his exit like this. The home crowd may be tolerant this weekend but Ohio State and Wisconsin fans will be ruthless to Sanctimonious Joe if given a chance.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:15 AM   #165
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This story has resurfaced:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...r-mystery.html

Yet as the Sandusky investigation moves forward, questions will be asked anew about why Gricar did not pursue charges against him 13 years ago. A small but strident minority believes Gricar did not want to tackle a case that involved a hometown icon. Others who knew and worked with Gricar say he was a meticulous, independent and tough-minded prosecutor who was unbowed by Penn State, its football program and political pressure in general.

“No one got a bye with Ray,” said Anthony De Boef, who worked as an assistant district attorney under Gricar for five years. “He didn’t care who you were; he had a job to do.”

De Boef said Gricar did not share any information with him about the case in 1998, which involved Sandusky allegedly showering with an 11-year-old boy. Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy’s mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

Still, the circumstances surrounding Gricar’s disappearance prompt many questions.

On April 15, 2005, Gricar, then 59, took the day off. At about 11:30 a.m., he called his girlfriend, Patricia Fornicola, to say he was taking a drive on Route 192. About 12 hours later, she reported him missing.

The next day, Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg, about 50 miles from his home in Bellefonte. Gricar’s cellphone was in the car, but not his laptop, wallet or keys, which were never recovered. Months later, the laptop was found in the Susquehanna River without its hard drive, which was discovered later. It was too damaged to yield any information. On the fourth anniversary of his disappearance, investigators revealed that a search of his home computer yielded a history of Internet searches for phrases like “how to wreck a hard drive,” according to a report at the time in The Centre Daily Times.

When Gricar disappeared helicopters, dive teams and patrol cars were deployed, and the F.B.I. was brought in. Reports of Gricar turning up in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Maryland and other states proved to be dead ends.

So what happened? Friends and colleagues say Gricar was not the type to walk away. His bank accounts were not touched after he disappeared, he had no other sources of income and he had no major debts, said Robert Buehner Jr., a friend and the district attorney in Montour County. Though divorced twice, he seemed happy with his girlfriend and close with his daughter. Gricar had already announced that he was retiring at the end of his term.

“He was absolutely looking forward to his future,” Buehner said.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:30 AM   #166
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You don't **** with JoePa.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:32 AM   #167
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You don't **** with JoePa.
To be fair: Nobody up this way is 'pointing fingers in that direction'. But, it has been "rerun" in the local radio/media circuit.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:36 AM   #168
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I was joking, but imo he's fair game. Penn State actively covered up this guy repeatedly raping kids because they didn't want to taint the sainted image of JoePa's program, and JoePa himself looked the other way. He's no better than one of those catholic bishops who rotated pedophiles to one parish after another.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #169
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I was joking, but imo he's fair game. Penn State actively covered up this guy repeatedly raping kids because they didn't want to taint the sainted image of JoePa's program, and JoePa himself looked the other way. He's no better than one of those catholic bishops who rotated pedophiles to one parish after another.
In agreement there.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:44 AM   #170
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Sandusky was Paterno's great friend and comrade. When he heard about this incident, he made a choice to believe in his friend and do the bare minimum to cover his ass. He intentionally looked the other way on the incident based on his own statements to date. What he should have done is confront his friend and find out the truth. Immediately. Great friends do not cover for one another, they hold each other accountable. They confront evil and pursue justice even with their best friends. Great Leaders seek out the problems and deal with them, not sweep them under the rug and pray they are untrue. This is Joe Paterno's greatest failing to me. When faced with a hard problem, he let loyalty get in the way of confronting evil, pursuing justice, and helping the helpless.

I grade character as stepping up in extreme adversity. It is very easy to be high in character in good times, but the real test of a man occurs in times of extreme adversity. When faced with this, Paterno's character failed. He should have been the leader he wanted to be and faced this head on at the time. It was irresponsible to the title he held as Head Coach of PSU. It was shameful as a man and friend. And, it was downright pathetic as a human being.
This is a very good way to analyze the situation and I complete agree with you.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:48 AM   #171
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The folks in the cocoon at Perv. State U. are kidding themselves if they let Joe control his exit like this. The home crowd may be tolerant this weekend but Ohio State and Wisconsin fans will be ruthless to Sanctimonious Joe if given a chance.
And rightfully so IMO. Keep it classy, but let him know that he is a disgrace (tough to reconcile those objectives but it can be done).
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:50 AM   #172
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A PSU football coach took his troubles to a psychiatrist. "Doctor, you must help me," he pleaded. "It's gotten so that every time I go scouting high school players, I meet a nice kid and end up in bed with him. And then afterward, I feel guilty and depressed for a week."

"I see," nodded the psychiatrist. "And you, no doubt, want me to strengthen your will power and resolve in this matter."

"For God's sake, NO!" exclaimed the PSU coach. "I want you to fix it so I won't feel guilty and depressed afterward."
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:57 AM   #173
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This story has resurfaced:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...r-mystery.html

Yet as the Sandusky investigation moves forward, questions will be asked anew about why Gricar did not pursue charges against him 13 years ago. A small but strident minority believes Gricar did not want to tackle a case that involved a hometown icon. Others who knew and worked with Gricar say he was a meticulous, independent and tough-minded prosecutor who was unbowed by Penn State, its football program and political pressure in general.

“No one got a bye with Ray,” said Anthony De Boef, who worked as an assistant district attorney under Gricar for five years. “He didn’t care who you were; he had a job to do.”

De Boef said Gricar did not share any information with him about the case in 1998, which involved Sandusky allegedly showering with an 11-year-old boy. Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy’s mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

Still, the circumstances surrounding Gricar’s disappearance prompt many questions.

On April 15, 2005, Gricar, then 59, took the day off. At about 11:30 a.m., he called his girlfriend, Patricia Fornicola, to say he was taking a drive on Route 192. About 12 hours later, she reported him missing.

The next day, Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg, about 50 miles from his home in Bellefonte. Gricar’s cellphone was in the car, but not his laptop, wallet or keys, which were never recovered. Months later, the laptop was found in the Susquehanna River without its hard drive, which was discovered later. It was too damaged to yield any information. On the fourth anniversary of his disappearance, investigators revealed that a search of his home computer yielded a history of Internet searches for phrases like “how to wreck a hard drive,” according to a report at the time in The Centre Daily Times.

When Gricar disappeared helicopters, dive teams and patrol cars were deployed, and the F.B.I. was brought in. Reports of Gricar turning up in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Maryland and other states proved to be dead ends.

So what happened? Friends and colleagues say Gricar was not the type to walk away. His bank accounts were not touched after he disappeared, he had no other sources of income and he had no major debts, said Robert Buehner Jr., a friend and the district attorney in Montour County. Though divorced twice, he seemed happy with his girlfriend and close with his daughter. Gricar had already announced that he was retiring at the end of his term.

“He was absolutely looking forward to his future,” Buehner said.
That's some bizarre ****.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:04 AM   #174
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If I'm the NCAA, PSU gets worse than what SMU got, they only paid adults to play football. Penn State was allowing a coach to systematically rape young boys. Shut down their entire football program (allow everyone to transfer without sitting out a year) and vacate all wins when Sandusky was coaching. Ask again in 5 years if they can restart their football program.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:14 AM   #175
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What's killing me in addition to all this is the former Penn State players saying they are going to support Paterno on the sideline on Saturday...GTFO.
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