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Old 11-01-2011, 10:09 AM   #76
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I don't really get it either. If a team brings up one of their safeties, and you're already in 3 wr and 1 te, that means no matter what they do with some kind of deception with the up safety and Sam, you got one wr deep with no safety help. And Tebow still missed open guys short in man and threw deep to where there was safety help.
it's called not having time in the pocket to find the receiver. why do you think Tebow after 5 games is going to make reads and decisions as fast as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady? you insist on holding Tebow to a standard that you know he can't attain because of his youth and inexperience, and then you pronounce him a failure for not meeting that standard now.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:00 AM   #77
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it's called not having time in the pocket to find the receiver. why do you think Tebow after 5 games is going to make reads and decisions as fast as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady? you insist on holding Tebow to a standard that you know he can't attain because of his youth and inexperience, and then you pronounce him a failure for not meeting that standard now.
Actually, the standard I expect is that of a 1st round QB just like everyone has for Moreno, Ayers and Thomas at their positions.

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Old 11-01-2011, 11:20 AM   #78
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Actually, the standard I expect is that of a 1st round QB just like everyone has for Moreno, Ayers and Thomas at their positions.

Thanks again Josh!
who cares where he was drafted? that's ancient history. why should a 4th round pick be given a longer development time than a 1st round pick? just because he was picked later? either they are going to be quality NFL players or not. what does "how soon" have to do with it? this new regime didn't do squat to help Tebow when he was the #2/#3 QB on the depth chart. now, because of Orton's suckitude, Tebow is the starter. he's had less than 3 weeks of work on the 1st team. does anyone think this coaching staff gave him any coaching on his mechanics prior to him taking over for Orton? i don't. they wouldn't even put a RZ package into the gameplan for him until they were forced to. remember, this regime gave Tebow 1 running play from near midfield against GB, announced that the play was a failure, and then never gave Tebow another chance that game. after the game, they defended that by saying "we gave him a chance, it didn't work, we moved on to something else". love Tebow or hate Tebow, doesn't matter to me. what does matter is that there is potential there that we need to truly evaluate before the end of the season. this regime is making that hard to do. i'm convinced they wouldn't lose one bit of sleep if Tebow floundered because they refuse to coach him to be successful, or do anything with the gameplan to utilize his skills. in their mind, they want a conventional pocket passer and it's up to Tebow to become that on his own. if he fails, they'll just say "told you so" and go get the #3 or #4 QB in next year's draft and we'll be back to the Brian Griese years again.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:27 AM   #79
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it's called not having time in the pocket to find the receiver. why do you think Tebow after 5 games is going to make reads and decisions as fast as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady? you insist on holding Tebow to a standard that you know he can't attain because of his youth and inexperience, and then you pronounce him a failure for not meeting that standard now.
No it was him missing open guys because his fundamentals SUCK BALLS. I think it's possible that he'll learn to read where a blitz is coming from and where he has 1-1, but I've come to doubt that he'll ever have a consistent enough footwork and arm delivery to make it in the NFL

I'm hoping, but I'm figuring its gonna be 3-13, and I am beginning to hope that Elway can get work to Tyler Green that if he comes out, the job's his.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:30 AM   #80
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No it was him missing open guys because his fundamentals SUCK BALLS. I think it's possible that he'll learn to read where a blitz is coming from and where he has 1-1, but I've come to doubt that he'll ever have a consistent enough footwork and arm delivery to make it in the NFL

I'm hoping, but I'm figuring its gonna be 3-13, and I am beginning to hope that Elway can get work to Tyler Green that if he comes out, the job's his.
he was under tremendous pressure from the Lions pass rush all day. it was lack of time to do anything except worry about self-preservation on almost every passing play.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:31 AM   #81
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who cares where he was drafted? that's ancient history. why should a 4th round pick be given a longer development time than a 1st round pick? just because he was picked later? either they are going to be quality NFL players or not. what does "how soon" have to do with it? this new regime didn't do squat to help Tebow when he was the #2/#3 QB on the depth chart. now, because of Orton's suckitude, Tebow is the starter. he's had less than 3 weeks of work on the 1st team. does anyone think this coaching staff gave him any coaching on his mechanics prior to him taking over for Orton? i don't. they wouldn't even put a RZ package into the gameplan for him until they were forced to. remember, this regime gave Tebow 1 running play from near midfield against GB, announced that the play was a failure, and then never gave Tebow another chance that game. after the game, they defended that by saying "we gave him a chance, it didn't work, we moved on to something else". love Tebow or hate Tebow, doesn't matter to me. what does matter is that there is potential there that we need to truly evaluate before the end of the season. this regime is making that hard to do. i'm convinced they wouldn't lose one bit of sleep if Tebow floundered because they refuse to coach him to be successful, or do anything with the gameplan to utilize his skills. in their mind, they want a conventional pocket passer and it's up to Tebow to become that on his own. if he fails, they'll just say "told you so" and go get the #3 or #4 QB in next year's draft and we'll be back to the Brian Griese years again.
Gotta say man. You are nailing it on the head in this thread.

I honestly find it hard to believe they are actively sabotaging Tebow. But I really do think they are basically taking a sink or swim approach with the guy. There doesn't seem to be any real effort to make his life easier. Instead the gameplan seems to basically be about putting him in situations where he has to play like a veteran or fail miserably. That isn't how you treat a QB you care about and have intentions of developing. That's how you treat a guy that you don't really want, but are being forced to play due to fan outcry.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:33 AM   #82
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No it was him missing open guys because his fundamentals SUCK BALLS. I think it's possible that he'll learn to read where a blitz is coming from and where he has 1-1, but I've come to doubt that he'll ever have a consistent enough footwork and arm delivery to make it in the NFL

I'm hoping, but I'm figuring its gonna be 3-13, and I am beginning to hope that Elway can get work to Tyler Green that if he comes out, the job's his.
the bolded part is silly. do you really believe that Tebow has already learned everything he'll ever learn and is incapable of improving, now that he's reached the ripe old age of 24?

people who make pronouncements like the one you've made above betray their lack of objectivity. i'm sure Meril Hoge would welcome you to his clubhouse.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:34 AM   #83
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I thought he improved slightly from Mia, but he still looked awful. Gunther brought up a safety, stuffed the run. Dared him to throw on first or second w/o a blitz, and with 1-1 coverage, and he misfired consistly. Is he a bust .... not yet.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #84
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the bolded part is silly. do you really believe that Tebow has already learned everything he'll ever learn and is incapable of improving, now that he's reached the ripe old age of 24?

people who make pronouncements like the one you've made above betray their lack of objectivity. i'm sure Meril Hoge would welcome you to his clubhouse.
I'm saying that anyone drafted in the first round better have the fundamentals down. This guy says he wanted to be a nfl qb, and didn't bother learning the fundamentals of the position that a guy coming out of Colo School of Mines had down. And he didn't work on it in the lockout.

He is a project whose chances of success have fallen.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #85
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Gotta say man. You are nailing it on the head in this thread.

I honestly find it hard to believe they are actively sabotaging Tebow. But I really do think they are basically taking a sink or swim approach with the guy. There doesn't seem to be any real effort to make his life easier. Instead the gameplan seems to basically be about putting him in situations where he has to play like a veteran or fail miserably. That isn't how you treat a QB you care about and have intentions of developing. That's how you treat a guy that you don't really want, but are being forced to play due to fan outcry.
i don't think they are deliberately sabotaging him. i just think they are set in their ways, are skeptical about Tebow, and aren't willing/able to do anything to make him better. it's basically the same as throwing your kid in the deep end and telling him to either "sink or swim". if Tebow swims, it'll be because of Tebow. nobody on this coaching staff is going to go out of their way to do anything more for him than they would for Orton. if Tebow sinks, they'll just shrug their shoulders and go get somebody in the draft.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:38 AM   #86
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he was under tremendous pressure from the Lions pass rush all day. it was lack of time to do anything except worry about self-preservation on almost every passing play.
He was under tremendous pressure because he couldn't hit open recievers, if he had punished the Lions for going 1 v 1 on every reciever he would have had time. When you as a QB can't put the ball in a position for your wideouts to make a catch you are going to be under pressure that is the name of the game, if Tebow is not a good enough passer to punish single coverage he doesn't belong in the league.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:39 AM   #87
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i don't think they are deliberately sabotaging him. i just think they are set in their ways, are skeptical about Tebow, and aren't willing/able to do anything to make him better. it's basically the same as throwing your kid in the deep end and telling him to either "sink or swim". if Tebow swims, it'll be because of Tebow. nobody on this coaching staff is going to go out of their way to do anything more for him than they would for Orton. if Tebow sinks, they'll just shrug their shoulders and go get somebody in the draft.
And what schemes would you run that they aren't running? And don't say Cam, cause its the same base set, but Cam picks up the blitz and gets passes off with some consistency
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:40 AM   #88
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I'm saying that anyone drafted in the first round better have the fundamentals down. This guy says he wanted to be a nfl qb, and didn't bother learning the fundamentals of the position that a guy coming out of Colo School of Mines had down. And he didn't work on it in the lockout.

He is a project whose chances of success have fallen.
did Vince Young have his fundamentals down? how do you know what he worked on and didn't work on? i think the fact that he's so messed up mechanically right now is proof that he has been working on it. intellectually he knows what to do, but instinctively it's not yet second nature. that's why he's a mess. his brain and his instinct are not in sync and he's having to think about everything he does. this happens all the time with MLB pitchers. tiny little changes to their mechanics can mess up lots of other things that take many more months to fix.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:43 AM   #89
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well I agree Tebow's "brain and instinct are not in sync."
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:45 AM   #90
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did Vince Young have his fundamentals down? how do you know what he worked on and didn't work on? i think the fact that he's so messed up mechanically right now is proof that he has been working on it. intellectually he knows what to do, but instinctively it's not yet second nature. that's why he's a mess. his brain and his instinct are not in sync and he's having to think about everything he does. this happens all the time with MLB pitchers. tiny little changes to their mechanics can mess up lots of other things that take many more months to fix.
To be honest all the mechanics crap has probably only hurt his chances of making it in the NFL. I think he would've been better off just being left alone. He would've looked weird for an NFL QB, but at least he would've been comfortable out there.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:48 AM   #91
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And what schemes would you run that they aren't running? And don't say Cam, cause its the same base set, but Cam picks up the blitz and gets passes off with some consistency
with Fox and McCoy, i honestly don't know that they have the mindset to develop a scheme to help slow the game down for Tebow. i think you need a guy who's a bit more innovative than that. what tebow needs more than anything is an environment where he can be successful, and that means not changing too much at once. i think he's probably overwhelmed right now with the mental aspect of playing the position, which also include being conscious of every mechanical change he's supposed to be making to his technique. i say forget fixing his mechanics for now. put him in formations where he is comfortable. don't force him to worry about taking snaps from center. spread the offense a bit more. assume that the opposing defense is always going to stack the box and design plays that make them pay for that and then practice those plays over and over and over again. above all, don't insist that he not improvise and stay in the pocket. if he's comfortable rolling out, then put some plays in that let him do that. also, we need some trickery as well. run on first, run on second, and pass on third is no longer a recipe for success in this league. if Tebow is constantly in 3rd-and-7 or 3rd-and-9, then he's not going to succeed as a young QB. in a nutshell, that's what killed the Broncos on Sunday. that and the fact that the Lions are better than the Broncos right now.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:54 AM   #92
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He was under tremendous pressure because he couldn't hit open recievers, if he had punished the Lions for going 1 v 1 on every reciever he would have had time. When you as a QB can't put the ball in a position for your wideouts to make a catch you are going to be under pressure that is the name of the game, if Tebow is not a good enough passer to punish single coverage he doesn't belong in the league.
it was his 5th game as a starter. am i the only one who knows that fact? seriously, it was his FIFTH GAME! how many young QBs are composed enough to do what you're asking in their FIFTH GAME! even #1 overall picks coming out of pro style college offenses are not able to do that in their 5th games.

i'm not saying that Tebow doesn't have to improve and get better. i'm not saying that he is blameless. i am just saying that the standard he's being measured by right now by some people is completely insane and no other young QB in the league is being held to the same high standard.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:13 PM   #93
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with Fox and McCoy, i honestly don't know that they have the mindset to develop a scheme to help slow the game down for Tebow. i think you need a guy who's a bit more innovative than that. what tebow needs more than anything is an environment where he can be successful, and that means not changing too much at once. i think he's probably overwhelmed right now with the mental aspect of playing the position, which also include being conscious of every mechanical change he's supposed to be making to his technique. i say forget fixing his mechanics for now. put him in formations where he is comfortable. don't force him to worry about taking snaps from center. spread the offense a bit more. assume that the opposing defense is always going to stack the box and design plays that make them pay for that and then practice those plays over and over and over again. above all, don't insist that he not improvise and stay in the pocket. if he's comfortable rolling out, then put some plays in that let him do that. also, we need some trickery as well. run on first, run on second, and pass on third is no longer a recipe for success in this league. if Tebow is constantly in 3rd-and-7 or 3rd-and-9, then he's not going to succeed as a young QB. in a nutshell, that's what killed the Broncos on Sunday. that and the fact that the Lions are better than the Broncos right now.
Den's plays on 1st and 10 in the first half.

Tebow designed run

Tebow short pass to Decker

1st and 15, Knowshow for nada (after Tebow took a too much time penalty)
---
tebow incomplete
----
know show nada
----
lance ball for 3
-----
Tebow incomplete
---
tebow desinged run.
--

8 first and tens. They put him in his fav play twice, put him in his best chance to succeed on a passing play three times, 2 straight running plays, and ran the ball once after Tebow couldn't run a play.

you're right that Tebow can't succeed on 3rd and 7, but to avoid that he's got to complete a pas on first or second.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:09 PM   #94
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it's pretty clear that they have f*'ed up his mechanics. he's doing everything they ask in an effort to get better and going along with all of their changes. it's also pretty clear that the game is still too fast for him. he's just had his 5th NFL start. he also doesn't have much talent around him on the field or on the coaching staff... and yet the Tebow haters are practically drooling at the chance to proclaim him to be the bust of the century and be done with him.

i've never been more embarrassed by my fellow Broncos fans. congrats guys, you're now no different than Jets fans.
There is no way we could have Tebow play like this and keep starting. If we did still you couldn't go into next yr without getting another QB for competition. Seriously I have just never seen a QB with the ball hanging as far back, for that long, ever in the NFL. I don't get it it's like he doesn't even try to just put the ball in the proper spot to start his throw. He needs a serious QB coach.

My biggest worry though is how crappy his ball looks once in the air. Not dart like, more like a bird with a broke wing. I have seen dudes in the parking lot at games with pretty looking spirals.

I love Tebow and wanted to see a look of him. I say just keep playing him no matter what, Orton gone next yr anyways. Maybe if Tebow just flat doesn't improve even he will start saying maybe I play FB/HB/Bkup QB. Never know.

If we end 2-14, we still probably dont get luck, that is what really sucks. Tebows Legacy could be his 1 win gave Luck to the fish.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:34 PM   #95
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Does anyone else find it disturbing how happy John Fox is in this press conference after a horrible loss by Tebow compared to how depressed he sounded after a win in Miami? WTF is up with that?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multime...0-5955783b1dad
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:40 PM   #96
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We've already covered this game plan, boogie man.

There is no such thing as a game plan for a guy who misses open receivers by 5 yards.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:45 PM   #97
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We've already covered this game plan, boogie man.

There is no such thing as a game plan for a guy who misses open receivers by 5 yards.

He didn't miss the receiver by 5, the receiver was at fault.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:42 PM   #98
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Does anyone else find it disturbing how happy John Fox is in this press conference after a horrible loss by Tebow compared to how depressed he sounded after a win in Miami? WTF is up with that?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multime...0-5955783b1dad
Not really, he looked more professional and even keeled than the manic depressive we had as a HC in mCd.
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