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Old 10-19-2011, 02:44 AM   #1
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Default How much support is Fox, Elway really giving Tebow?

The interesting twist about the change of quarterbacks is the Denver faithful will no doubt have more patience than the Broncos triumvirate execs of XEF. Most fans want to see Tebow succeed. I get the sense the Broncos brass wants to show that Tebow stinks so they can say "We told you so." There have been a lot of reasons why Brandon Lloyd was traded. But how did trading Denver's only receiving threat help Tebow? Now there will be even more guys in the box instead of defending the pass. Lloyd is going to be replaced with 2 guys who are always injured and guys, like Eric Decker, who aren't consistent (negative 4 yards receiving vs Chargers) and clearly Not a Tebow supporter.

When it comes to starting a new QB, usually it's the fans who aren't patient. But just hearing Coach John Fox say that he will only "tweak" the offense for Tebow makes me believe that Fox isn't going to support his young QB 100 percent. If he were, Fox would play to Tebow's strength and that means having him operate more out of the spread. A good coach plays to his QBs strengths. Frankly, it doesn't sound like he is willing to do that. Also, Elway sounded less than effusive in his support of Tebow during his interview with Kara Henderson on NFL Network, and in other interviews. I think deep down, Elway is still hoping to get Luck.

We shall see….
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:21 AM   #2
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:33 AM   #3
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I actually wonder if it is less about them "not liking" Tebow.. and more about them being scared shirtless about THEM not being able to adapt to Tebow.

Most NFL people are not creative... so when you have something new and different they have no clue what to do with it.

I really think this might be the issue.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:35 AM   #4
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Who knows? All I know is he keeps on producing TDs when he plays and everyone hates him cause he doesnt look right.

I dont believe the organization does believe in him. I think that is clear. I dont think we will ever see more irrational criticism for a person and a player from teammates, coaches, organization or media.

Itis strange to see.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Moops View Post
The interesting twist about the change of quarterbacks is the Denver faithful will no doubt have more patience than the Broncos triumvirate execs of XEF. Most fans want to see Tebow succeed. I get the sense the Broncos brass wants to show that Tebow stinks so they can say "We told you so." There have been a lot of reasons why Brandon Lloyd was traded. But how did trading Denver's only receiving threat help Tebow? Now there will be even more guys in the box instead of defending the pass. Lloyd is going to be replaced with 2 guys who are always injured and guys, like Eric Decker, who aren't consistent (negative 4 yards receiving vs Chargers) and clearly Not a Tebow supporter.

When it comes to starting a new QB, usually it's the fans who aren't patient. But just hearing Coach John Fox say that he will only "tweak" the offense for Tebow makes me believe that Fox isn't going to support his young QB 100 percent. If he were, Fox would play to Tebow's strength and that means having him operate more out of the spread. A good coach plays to his QBs strengths. Frankly, it doesn't sound like he is willing to do that. Also, Elway sounded less than effusive in his support of Tebow during his interview with Kara Henderson on NFL Network, and in other interviews. I think deep down, Elway is still hoping to get Luck.

We shall see….
The problem is that they can't completely redesign the offense in the middle of the season. I'm not sure they would if they could, but they can't so it doesn't really matter. Too bad we don't have people in charge with the foresight to have designed an offense catering to Tebow's talents during the offense like Newton has in Carolina, but oh well...
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:42 AM   #6
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Who knows? All I know is he keeps on producing TDs when he plays and everyone hates him cause he doesnt look right.

I dont believe the organization does believe in him. I think that is clear. I dont think we will ever see more irrational criticism for a person and a player from teammates, coaches, organization or media.

Itis strange to see.
Yep. Right now people are focusing on the one negative: his completion percentage. If he fixes that and then starts throwing interceptions more, that will become the talking point. Basically the guy has to play on a level where nothing can really be criticized or something will be, and with a level of intensity that is completely out proportion to what it should be for a young, inexperienced player.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MacGruder View Post
I actually wonder if it is less about them "not liking" Tebow.. and more about them being scared shirtless about THEM not being able to adapt to Tebow.

Most NFL people are not creative... so when you have something new and different they have no clue what to do with it.

I really think this might be the issue.
John Fox specifically brought in and used the wildcat/single wing into Carolina's offense a full season before Miami started to make it a trend.

But don't let facts get in the way of the speculation, conjecture circle jerk.

Or am I just projecting?
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:02 AM   #8
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John Fox specifically brought in and used the wildcat/single wing into Carolina's offense a full season before Miami started to make it a trend.

But don't let facts get in the way of the speculation, conjecture circle jerk.

Or am I just projecting?
But from my understanding that was out of desperation.. and it seems to have been the OC spearheading that rather than Fox... which is why he didn't want to use McD's system when he took over and made McD's system fit his style. He wants to be in control and he has a limited range as a coach, circle jerk.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:14 AM   #9
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But from my understanding that was out of desperation.. and it seems to have been the OC spearheading that rather than Fox... which is why he didn't want to use McD's system when he took over and made McD's system fit his style. He wants to be in control and he has a limited range as a coach, circle jerk.
No, you're still wrong:

Quote:
Fox was actually the guy who came up with the idea to run the Wildcat (actually the Tiger first, check the link for more), and now that Henning’s in Miami with David Lee, they’ve expanded the system.
Read more: http://www.heraldonline.com/2009/11/...#ixzz1bEGcNR4w

Or is this me just witch hunting?

Anyways I don't expect you to change your opinion, so carry on.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:24 AM   #10
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http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1754573.html


Quote:
Quote:
“Now that Miami's doing it, the Wildcat's all the big thing. But the creator of it is John Fox,” Panthers running backs coach Jim Skipper said. “All of a sudden, Dan goes to Miami, and they expand on it, but we were probably the first team in the league to run it.

“Dan was the coordinator, but I'd say John deserves the credit. You can push it any way you want to push it, but that's where it originated from, was John.”
But nevermind, the coaches are just so damn scared SHIRTLESS about not being able to adapt to a QB!!

It's as if Tebow isn't just another talented QB that's very mobile and athletic but some kind of enigma wrapped in a mystery that requires the worlds most creative thinkers to unravel.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:25 AM   #11
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Dammit,

what a bunch of drama queens this board has become....

If Tebow succeeds, EFX will be happy because it is one less hole they have to plug...

If Tebow fails, then this is a good draft to need a QB...

Most front offices would like to see the current talented QB they know succeed rather than gamble another pick that could be spent elsewhere.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:28 AM   #12
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I dont think we will ever see more irrational criticism for a person and a player from teammates, coaches, organization or media.

Itis strange to see.
To be fair, I also think there will be irrational, widespread excuses being made by the fanbase if he doesn't play well. (I don't think that's proper english but you get my point!)
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:30 AM   #13
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Here's the list of compiled reasons so far in this thread:

1. John Fox and co aren't willing to support Tebow
2. John Fox and co are too scared they won't adapt to Tebow
3. John Fox and co aren't creative enough to adapt to Tebow
4. The organisation doesn't believe in him (it's clear, apparently).
5. John Fox and co can't redesign the offense for Tebow.

Any more sh*t you want to throw at the wall hoping it sticks?
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:31 AM   #14
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Yup... some of the more avid Tebow supporters need to move out of "conspiracy-to-undermine-Tebow-suspicions" mode and just relax and watch him play. He's getting his chance to succeed or fail and one would think you guys would be happy about that instead of reaching for new imagined reasons to b*tch and moan.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:34 AM   #15
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Yup... some of the more avid Tebow supporters need to move out of "conspiracy-to-undermine-Tebow-suspicions" mode and just relax and watch him play. He's getting his chance to succeed or fail and one would think you guys would be happy about that instead of reaching for new imagined reasons to b*tch and moan.
Careful Blue, you're projecting.

Or is it witch hunting?
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Here's the list of compiled reasons so far in this thread:

1. John Fox and co aren't willing to support Tebow
2. John Fox and co are too scared they won't adapt to Tebow
3. John Fox and co aren't creative enough to adapt to Tebow
4. The organisation doesn't believe in him (it's clear, apparently).
5. John Fox and co can't redesign the offense for Tebow.

Any more sh*t you want to throw at the wall hoping it sticks?
6. They are trading impact players for peanuts to gain ammo for Luck....
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ray Finkle View Post

If Tebow succeeds, EFX will be happy because it is one less hole they have to plug...

If Tebow fails, then this is a good draft to need a QB...

Most front offices would like to see the current talented QB they know succeed rather than gamble another pick that could be spent elsewhere.

this.

it's hard for me to imagine that Elway's method for the Broncos is to methodically have them lose..seems too crazy.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:37 AM   #18
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Careful Blue, you're projecting.

Or is it witch hunting?
Probably both...
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:40 AM   #19
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Seriously though, WhoTF is Tebow but some talented young prospect?

He's not the Denver Broncos, and the staff don't owe it to the guy to completely redesign the offense - and skull**** the other players in the process.

You want to run an effective ground game? No **** you, Tebow comes first.

You want to run play action passes when the defense gets over aggressive? No **** you, how dare you ask Tebow to play from under center.

You want to target the biggest, most physical set of WRs Denver has EVER had and a physical mismatch against 90% of the CBs in D Thomas/Decker? No, **** you, Tebow doesn't have to distribute the ball and be accurate. Let him run with the ball because he's Tebow.

You want to give Fox/Elway and the current staff two full seasons/drafts to evaluate before calling them stupid, uncreative, stubborn? No **** you, drop everything and worship Tebow now.

Defense? Pass rush? No, *** you . . . . . . . . . TEBOWWWWWW!!!
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:43 AM   #20
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Seriously though, WhoTF is Tebow but some talented young prospect?

He's not the Denver Broncos, and the staff don't owe it to the guy to completely redesign the offense - and skull**** the other players in the process.

You want to run an effective ground game? No **** you, Tebow comes first.

You want to run play action passes when the defense gets over aggressive? No **** you, how dare you ask Tebow to play from under center.

You want to target the biggest, most physical set of WRs Denver has EVER had and a physical mismatch against 90% of the CBs in D Thomas/Decker? No, **** you, Tebow doesn't have to distribute the ball and be accurate. Let him run with the ball because he's Tebow.

You want to give Fox/Elway and the current staff two full seasons/drafts to evaluate before calling them stupid, uncreative, stubborn? No **** you, drop everything and worship Tebow now.

Defense? Pass rush? No, *** you . . . . . . . . . TEBOWWWWWW!!!
Actually Tebow wasn't exactly perceived as a "QB prospect" coming into the NFL; he was viewed as a "multi-year QB project. Meaning even McDaniels (y'know the noob HC who got pwned by his mentor who wasn't going to make that reach but ran a successful bluff) knew he wasn't going to be ready to start right away.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:43 AM   #21
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Well that about finishes up my contribution to this thread.

Carry on.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:44 AM   #22
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Seriously though, WhoTF is Tebow but some talented young prospect?

He's not the Denver Broncos, and the staff don't owe it to the guy to completely redesign the offense - and skull**** the other players in the process.

You want to run an effective ground game? No **** you, Tebow comes first.

You want to run play action passes when the defense gets over aggressive? No **** you, how dare you ask Tebow to play from under center.

You want to target the biggest, most physical set of WRs Denver has EVER had and a physical mismatch against 90% of the CBs in D Thomas/Decker? No, **** you, Tebow doesn't have to distribute the ball and be accurate. Let him run with the ball because he's Tebow.

You want to give Fox/Elway and the current staff two full seasons/drafts to evaluate before calling them stupid, uncreative, stubborn? No **** you, drop everything and worship Tebow now.

Defense? Pass rush? No, *** you . . . . . . . . . TEBOWWWWWW!!!
I've always been under the impression, they drafted big, physical WRs to aid Tebow....He's an inaccurate thrower so you give him bigger targets...but no, they are not doing anything to help him succeed.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:01 AM   #23
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Yep. Right now people are focusing on the one negative: his completion percentage. If he fixes that and then starts throwing interceptions more, that will become the talking point. Basically the guy has to play on a level where nothing can really be criticized or something will be, and with a level of intensity that is completely out proportion to what it should be for a young, inexperienced player.
His critics are like water on a sidewalk.

If he has a good completion % then the media will find something else. He was 6 for 7 against the Cowboys in preseason and BSPN ran the incomplete pass on a loop along with the int that was a PI on a WR that was tackled.

If he struggles against good defenses (like any good QB does) they will say he doesnt do well against good defenses. If he does well against bad defenses, they will say it was only against bad defenses. Of course, they never hold that standard to the QBs they love. Bradford for instance only had good games last year against the 32nd ranked Broncos defende, 31st ranked redskins defense, and 27th ranked Seahawks defense. He ended up being the 27th rated QB and was pretty horrible down the stretch. Yet the media and BSPN sang his never ending praises. He is 0-5 this year and all there are are excuses for him. Oh, but he took 4 whole snaps under center at Oklahoma, so he was obviously ready.

They love to point out Tebow's 1-2 record and to them the Texans game doesnt count at all. Not at all.

He ended up as the highest rated of all rookies last year. Only QB to ever run and pass for a 30 yard TD in his first game. Had the same approimate rating as Newton. Newton was 16 for 31 2 weeks ago, and threw 3 picks last Sunday. All I hear are praises and excuses. They mentioned that one of the INTs was a Hail Mary pass.

They didnt mention 2 of Tebow incompletions against the Chargers was a spike ball to stop the clock and a Hail Mary pass. No, that doesnt count.

Now, this week is a total lose/lose situation. If he does well, it is against crappy Miami. If he doesnt, oh boy. McCoy had a 71 rating against the Dolphins a few weeks ago. He is in his second year, and he was one of those that were suppose to be soooo much better than Tebow. Did BSPN hold that against him or say he didnt accomplish anything cause they beat the lowly Dolphins. Wanna bet that is what they will all talk about if Tebow does well Sunday? Wanna place a bet on that?

It is something that we need to endure as fans. Gators fans have been through this for a while. Ask them if they miss him on the Gators right now.

I can whine and moan till I turn blue and purple. Doesnt matter. He needs to lead the team to shut them all up. That means the players and coaches and Elway when I say that.

It is put up or shut up. There will always be a double standard and a seething hatred from the media. We know which way they lean, and why they hate him for the most part. The others, he just rubs against their paradigm of what a QB is suppose to look like. Pride filled, ego-maniacal critics like Hoge cant stand him for it.

Last edited by BlueandOrange32; 10-19-2011 at 06:04 AM..
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:04 AM   #24
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Well that about finishes up my contribution to this thread.

Carry on.
I love how the Tebow haters get so worked up. The majority of this horrible topic is you right now...

Tebow has full support from the front office. They are starting him. They didn't have to start him.

You can claim giving away talent is hating on Tebow all you want. The fact is, it was just a poor decision. Most here claimed McDaniels qas just trying to win as he gave away all the talent. Why wasn't this an issue then? Orton would be far more justified in using this excuse than Tebow would be. We lost a LOT more talent when Orton was starting...
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:08 AM   #25
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http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1754573.html




But nevermind, the coaches are just so damn scared SHIRTLESS about not being able to adapt to a QB!!

It's as if Tebow isn't just another talented QB that's very mobile and athletic but some kind of enigma wrapped in a mystery that requires the worlds most creative thinkers to unravel.
You are making my case for me.. lol

Thanks!
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