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Old 10-18-2011, 10:04 PM   #1
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Default More details about Miami, not Denver killing Orton deal

Ross is apparently so committed to doing this that the source confirmed it was the owner himself who told Jeff Ireland to shut down the attempt to add Kyle Orton in the summer when the general manager was still trying to trade for the Denver quarterback.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/1...#ixzz1bCGVxLaC


As Doug Lee at IAOFM says...

In other words, the Broncos were more than prepared to ship Orton off, as we've figured since about nine months ago. But you know, continue to blame John Fox or John Elway for Orton not being moved. We don't need no stinking facts when we have our sights set on someone, right?

Yet another case of opinion being repeated enough until people accepted it as fact. Doesn't matter now, but if you're following along at home and want to know what our team is really up to, knowing actual details can assist in forming an opinion.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #2
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I think you're onto something here, for sure!
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:35 PM   #3
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Orton wanted MOAR money!


Good read. Can you imagine if Tebow lights it up THIS week then goes on to play well enough for the rest of the season to show he can be a franchise QB...Miami ends up coveting him in January and swings a package deal with Elway for the rights to Luck? This board would go nuts.


For the reading comprehension impaired:
lulz speculation only. I firmly believe that Elway & Co. love Tebow and will come to view him as the long term solution as the year plays out.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:49 PM   #4
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“Orton is a nice quarterback,” the source said. “But he’s not a franchise quarterback, and we weren’t going to pay him like one when he isn’t one.”


Who knew
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAT View Post


For the reading comprehension impaired:
lulz speculation only. I firmly believe that Elway & Co. love Tebow and will come to view him as the long term solution as the year plays out.
Tell that to all the 'suck for luck' crowd around here, they seem happy rooting for the Broncos to lose. I'm ready to see what Tebow can do.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:00 PM   #6
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Gruden just signed an extension with ESPN so hiring him out of the question.

Why would they start Orton after trying to trade him?
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:08 PM   #7
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Doesn't change the fact that the front office was clowned by the situation, going from "trade eminent" to "best chance to win" overnight.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:11 PM   #8
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Gruden just signed an extension with ESPN so hiring him out of the question.

Why would they start Orton after trying to trade him?
Read Nate Jackson's article. I'm not saying he's an authority, but he played the game... recently. He's spent a lot of time with coaches. He called them a paranoid breed. Tebow came in and didn't practice well, apparently. Orton came in and DID practice well. Orton, not Tebow had the backing of the vets on the team. Fox was a first-year coach in Denver, and took the safest route. Start the most experienced QB who is playing better football.

Now, why did they try to trade him? Who knows. That could have been in the works for while... maybe they thought they could go with Tebow and Fox and Co. decided not to after they saw both QB's in camp. After all, you're paying the guy 9M... why not have him in the mix?

But, that's not the point. The point is again... there was no evidence of the claim people were making about Orton rejecting the trade. (Or EFX.)

Just something to keep in mind for future forum activity.

Last edited by Popps; 10-18-2011 at 11:13 PM..
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Why would they start Orton after trying to trade him?
Because he was still on the roster and the new coach's record was still 0-0.
Fox knew damn well what week the bye was coming.

A) If he benches Orton from week 1 he pisses off the vets and has nowhere to turn if the Tebow led Broncos are 1-4 at the Bye.

B) If Orton/Denver were 3-2 or better than he's got no problem.

C) If they are 2-3 he maybe has a tough decision to make that's going to piss off some fan base, some players, and maybe some FO brass.

D) If they are 1-4 or 0-5 at the bye, it's an easy decision to start Tebow in Florida after a bye with virtually no backlash from anyone.

It was an easy call all along and anyone paying attention saw it coming in August.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Broncenstein View Post
Doesn't change the fact that the front office was clowned by the situation, going from "trade eminent" to "best chance to win" overnight.
But those two aren't mutually exclusive.

"We want to trade Orton & fully commit to our young QB and WR's without the distraction of having Orton and Llloyd on the roster"

"We weren't able to trade Orton so we kept Lloyd too and believe they provide us with the best chance to win games in September and early October. (We will re-assess at the bye.) [implied]



Those two statements can co-exist just fine.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
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But those two aren't mutually exclusive.

"We want to trade Orton & fully commit to our young QB and WR's without the distraction of having Orton and Llloyd on the roster"

"We weren't able to trade Orton so we kept Lloyd too and believe they provide us with the best chance to win games in September and early October. (We will re-assess at the bye.) [implied]



Those two statements can co-exist just fine.
Problem is that wasn't the statement coming from the front office and the head coach. "Orton... the guy we were planning on trading to Miami or Arizona / Seattle / Tennessee / etc... has clearly won the starting job based upon an open competition in training camp and pre-season. And by open competition, we mean no competition whatsoever."
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Broncenstein View Post
Problem is that wasn't the statement coming from the front office and the head coach. "Orton... the guy we were planning on trading to Miami or Arizona / Seattle / Tennessee / etc... has clearly won the starting job based upon an open competition in training camp and pre-season. And by open competition, we mean no competition whatsoever."
Right. I don't expect to be spoon fed every detail when it's easy enough to read between the lines.

Orton takes heat for being a "Practice QB" but look what defense he's practicing against. It's hard to blame Fox if Tebow wasn't even looking ready against our **** D. Again, he knew exactly when the bye week was coming and did what 99.9% of NFL coaches would have done. Start Orton, hope for the best and go to plan B with zero backlash if needed.

Win-Win. (For Fox)
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
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But, that's not the point. The point is again... there was no evidence of the claim people were making about Orton rejecting the trade. (Or EFX.)

.
Popps, I appreciate that there is now this Miami article claiming that it was their owner that nixed it, but remember back then there were also articles (from Denver writers) claiming the main reason was that Orton and Miami were not able to agree on a contract. There is evidence pointing in several different directions (there is at least one other possible explanation as well), depending on which writer (and their sources) one believes.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:35 AM   #14
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Popps, I appreciate that there is now this Miami article claiming that it was their owner that nixed it, but remember back then there were also articles (from Denver writers) claiming the main reason was that Orton and Miami were not able to agree on a contract. There is evidence pointing in several different directions, depending on which writer (and their sources) one believes.
This isn't the only article. Shefter also said it like it was pretty much accepted fact. He's not exactly some internet hack. He's had a few years with the Broncos and I doubt many have deeper contacts.

If Denver writers were saying that they "couldn't agree on a contract," perhaps now you know why.

I don't recall any legitimate sources printing that Orton killed this deal, or that the Broncos front office pulled out. (Which was widely stated around here like it was fact.) If it was printed, I doubt it was printed with any sort of reasoning beyond speculation.

Logic seemed pretty easy to follow at the time. If we were willing to part with him, why would we have pulled up stakes once a supposed deal was in place? As for Orton, I find it very hard to believe that an extended deal to play in a city that wanted him looked less attractive than a 1-year deal to play in a city that wanted nothing to do with him. Yes, it was a big one-year deal... but he was coming off of a rocky finish. Do you really see him making massive contract demands at that point?

Logic never pointed to Orton or Denver killing this deal once talks started... and it seems that logic panned out. Miami changed their minds.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:56 AM   #15
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The problem I'm having with the "Miami owner saying no" theory is that if this were the case, they never would have engaged in talks to begin with. If the owner has a view that he wants a franchise QB, that's not something that he's just going to bust out at the last minute as a change of heart. It's a philosophical type of decision, you don't say on August 27th that we will take Orton and then on August 28th that no, I want a franchsie QB. These are long term decisions here and its fair to assume that Miami has an idea of what their vision is for the position in advance, it doesnt just flip flop from day to day or come about overnight. Stephen Ross is a fairly bright guy so I'd like to think there is a thought out plan there. Given that we know there were some fairly serious and extended discussions with Miami over Orton, it is hard to advance the owner nixing it due to franchise QB theory.

However, Popps, you do raise a good point about Orton's contract also not fully explaining it, as he might want a smaller, but extended deal in a place he's wanted rather than a 1 year deal in a place he's hated. That's a very fair point.

Therefore, since there has been significant doubt cast upon the above two theories, this leaves Explanation No. 3:

EFX flubbed the MIA-DEN compensation negotiation. Miami called their bluff and EFX got left holding the bag in an awkward spot, after getting punked and flat out owned.

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Old 10-19-2011, 02:14 AM   #16
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Also Orton was not cooperating with redoing his deal. It's not anyones fault it just didn't happen.
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:14 AM   #17
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OK Popps, I will play. Even agree to a point that is what they had in mind record wise (never mind that would have meant a lame duck season at best with KO at QB leading to a mediocre record and no development for last years 1st rnd pick).

I can get the logic and it was stated here and elsewhere. Where I have a problem is, the FO flat out called out the fan base and said nope, thats not the case, we know better, STFU. They could have handled it 100 different ways, but instead chose the path that most pissed off the fanbase, also causing them to turn on the incumbent QB mob style. Thats what I dont get. Im also not convinced that they truly had a plan in regards to the record, I think were filling in the blanks for them.
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