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Old 10-11-2011, 10:59 AM   #1
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I posted this in another thread, but it had a question that I'd like to address. It's another Tebow thread. So sue me... but it's about moving forward. I supported starting Orton through the Green Bay game, and even against SD, but I supported the switch to Tebow as well. It's time to see what we have at 1-4, and I think the potential is there. I'm kinda a half-believer in Tebow in that I'm cautiously optimistic.

At this point, the question is about how we move forward.

How would we build around Tebow? I'm thinking biggish, possession WRs, with an emphasis on TEs, and quick, pulling guards that are good at blocking side-to-side and downfield, and an additional speed back to compliment McGahee as the PB and Moreno as a passing down back.

We could bring in a guy like Sproles, and run a split back shotgun set along with McGahee two TEs and Decker at the flanker. That would be absolute hell to try and defend. Just send Decker on the post corner, and then school yard "get open" style like the Steelers run with the TEs, with a 1-2-3 running threat with the speed guy to the outside, McGahee on the inside, and Tebow with the option.

The possibilities are sexy.

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Old 10-11-2011, 11:04 AM   #2
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I honestly think we will have success, once we get our WR's/TE's healthy, with a spread-option offense.
Decker-Royal-Lloyd-D.Thomas/J.Thomas at WR/TE
McGahee/Moreno in the back
Shotgun with Tebow.
Defense is spread out, and adjust playcalling at the line to fit what you see from the defense.
Basically close to what he was running at Florida, and he was very good at it. I know its different in the pro's, but I think he can make it work. At least worth a try IMO.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:05 AM   #3
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Someone mentioned the spread option, too, with 4-wide. This would suck to defend because if you sell out the pass, Tebow has a huge running lane - but you can't sell out the run, either.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChamp24 View Post
I honestly think we will have success, once we get our WR's/TE's healthy, with a spread-option offense.
Decker-Royal-Lloyd-D.Thomas/J.Thomas at WR/TE
McGahee/Moreno in the back
Shotgun with Tebow.
Defense is spread out, and adjust playcalling at the line to fit what you see from the defense.
Basically close to what he was running at Florida, and he was very good at it. I know its different in the pro's, but I think he can make it work. At least worth a try IMO.
Beat me to it, haha.

Edit -

Except:

Quote:
Decker-Royal-Lloyd-D.Thomas/J.Thomas at WR/TE
McGahee/Moreno in the back
Shotgun with Tebow.
Is an illegal formation. Take the TE or one of the WRs out and you got it.

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Old 10-11-2011, 11:08 AM   #5
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In reality, I think there is more they can do with Tebow than they could with Orton. A more traditional offense wasn't working that wonderfully with Orton anyway.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:10 AM   #6
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In reality, I think there is more they can do with Tebow than they could with Orton. A more traditional offense wasn't working that wonderfully with Orton anyway.
This much is obvious. Even the Orton supporters like myself can't deny this.

I for one would like to see us get a couple of stud Corners in the first day of the draft this year, and maybe a solid pulling Center/LG. Beadles has been solid but doesn't seem like a long-term answer, and Walton isn't cutting it (although he has improved drastically).

Julius Thomas is going to be money. DT needs to stay healthy... Royal will get better... I think we do re-sign Lloyd, and decker is solid.

I think our running game is fine, I would like to see a speed back brought in though.

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Old 10-11-2011, 11:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChamp24 View Post
I honestly think we will have success, once we get our WR's/TE's healthy, with a spread-option offense.
Decker-Royal-Lloyd-D.Thomas/J.Thomas at WR/TE
McGahee/Moreno in the back
Shotgun with Tebow.
Defense is spread out, and adjust playcalling at the line to fit what you see from the defense.
Basically close to what he was running at Florida, and he was very good at it. I know its different in the pro's, but I think he can make it work. At least worth a try IMO.
The only question I have is how many times a game do you have to option it to keep everyone honest and make that offense work. If it is 10 to 15 times a game I think it might work. If it is 25+ range like it was at Florida then we have a problem.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:14 AM   #8
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I think Fox and McCoy will tweak their offense to accomodate Tebow's strengths but I seriously doubt they go to a spread offense.

Every offense runs the shotgun formation. Every offense runs the shotgun formation. Let me say that one more time: every offense runs the shotgun formation.

Tebow will be given a chance to run out of the shotgun formation as did Elway under Dan Reeves. That being said, I doubt Fox will blow up his offense to run the spread because of Tebow.

Jake Dehlomme had a lot of success with Fox/McCoy. I'm pretty sure they can work with Tebow too.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:15 AM   #9
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The only question I have is how many times a game do you have to option it to keep everyone honest and make that offense work. If it is 10 to 15 times a game I think it might work. If it is 25+ range like it was at Florida then we have a problem.
I agree, but I don't want to be seeing the option on every single play. Not at all actually. Develop Tebow's passing game, and his running game will be a by-product of his passing game - and create huge plays on the ground.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:22 AM   #10
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If Tebow proves he's the man and we don't go for Luck, maybe we could go for one of the Stanford TEs? Either Zach Ertz or Coby Fleener work for me.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-09-3...-craig-bergman

Everybody see Fleener's one handed TD grab a couple of weeks ago?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:26 AM   #11
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12 personnel base with Fells and Thomas/Green at the TEs, Decker and Lloyd at WR, McGahee as the RB. From that you can split Thomas/Green out to give a slot look.

Moreno spells McGahee, especially on passing downs where you use Moreno much like the Gators used Harvin, stays in and carries the ball some, motions out and works as a WR some, etc..

Royal is your slot when you go to 3 WR.

Design some end arounds that get the defense biting on a Tebow designed draw when he pitches it to Royal on an end around out of the slot. McGahee, Fells, and Decker setting up blocks. That'll be a back breaker when teams start jumping to get after Tebow on running downs.

Lot of interesting trick plays you could cook up really, but a base offense that gives him TEs on each end of the line where they can either stay in to block or attack the defense vertically would be money for Tebow. His single best passing strength is his deep ball, so why wouldn't you look for ways to get Thomas or Green on a safety or linebacker 20 yards down field.

In short, something very much like what the Patriots do with Gronkowski and Hernandez.

Come the draft I spend our 1st on DT or CB, our 2nd on a MLB, and then use our 3rd on a power back type to replace McGahee long term. Then after hitting more areas of need on the defense finish the draft off by grabbing more depth for the OL and the best later round RB we can find.

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Old 10-11-2011, 11:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
I think Fox and McCoy will tweak their offense to accomodate Tebow's strengths but I seriously doubt they go to a spread offense.

Every offense runs the shotgun formation. Every offense runs the shotgun formation. Let me say that one more time: every offense runs the shotgun formation.

Tebow will be given a chance to run out of the shotgun formation as did Elway under Dan Reeves. That being said, I doubt Fox will blow up his offense to run the spread because of Tebow.

Jake Dehlomme had a lot of success with Fox/McCoy. I'm pretty sure they can work with Tebow too.
Exactly! That is what I had been saying for weeks when some say that Tebow can't play under center, while watching Orton standing in the shotgun numerous times in games.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:19 PM   #13
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i don't think radical changes need to be made to the offense for Tebow to be able to execute the gameplan. yes some special Tebow packages need to be inserted, meaning more play action and the occasional draw plays. but the drop back and pass from the pocket still needs to be integral. i think with more time in live game situations Tebow's pocket presence and ability to play from the pocket will improve. reading defenses, playing from the pocket, going through reads are things a QB can only learn by actually playing. i think he will start off a little rocky in these aspects but show major improvement by the end of the year.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #14
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:26 PM   #15
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Great thread concept.

Love Drek's ideas, as usual.

I think one question we're going to be forced to answer is whether or not Franklin is the prototypical blind-side pass-pro tackle. There has been talk of him moving to guard and bringing in someone to play the blind side.

Could Clady move over? That's got to be rough for a guy at this stage in his career. I know Tony Jones did it for us back in the day, successfully.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
12 personnel base with Fells and Thomas/Green at the TEs, Decker and Lloyd at WR, McGahee as the RB. From that you can split Thomas/Green out to give a slot look.

Moreno spells McGahee, especially on passing downs where you use Moreno much like the Gators used Harvin, stays in and carries the ball some, motions out and works as a WR some, etc..

Royal is your slot when you go to 3 WR.

Design some end arounds that get the defense biting on a Tebow designed draw when he pitches it to Royal on an end around out of the slot. McGahee, Fells, and Decker setting up blocks. That'll be a back breaker when teams start jumping to get after Tebow on running downs.

Lot of interesting trick plays you could cook up really, but a base offense that gives him TEs on each end of the line where they can either stay in to block or attack the defense vertically would be money for Tebow. His single best passing strength is his deep ball, so why wouldn't you look for ways to get Thomas or Green on a safety or linebacker 20 yards down field.

In short, something very much like what the Patriots do with Gronkowski and Hernandez.

Come the draft I spend our 1st on DT or CB, our 2nd on a MLB, and then use our 3rd on a power back type to replace McGahee long term. Then after hitting more areas of need on the defense finish the draft off by grabbing more depth for the OL and the best later round RB we can find.
Just a quick question: Why Royal in the slot? We've been trying to make that work since his 2nd season, and he's been pretty ineffective at it for basically the entire time.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:35 PM   #17
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Just a quick question: Why Royal in the slot? We've been trying to make that work since his 2nd season, and he's been pretty ineffective at it for basically the entire time.
I am really not being a dick here, but Orton very seldom checked down that far so unless Royal was the first or second option, he wasn't seeing the ball. I am not blaming Eddie's demise on that, but it certainly was a factor IMO although he was dropping some things this year.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:38 PM   #18
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I am really not being a dick here, but Orton very seldom checked down that far so unless Royal was the first or second option, he wasn't seeing the ball. I am not blaming Eddie's demise on that, but it certainly was a factor IMO although he was dropping some things this year.
I hadn't really considered that. Could be.

Personally, I never thought that he looked very comfortable in the slot. His route running seemed to be much worse than his rookie year, and I thought that might be attributed to playing inside vs. outside.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
12 personnel base with Fells and Thomas/Green at the TEs, Decker and Lloyd at WR, McGahee as the RB. From that you can split Thomas/Green out to give a slot look.

Moreno spells McGahee, especially on passing downs where you use Moreno much like the Gators used Harvin, stays in and carries the ball some, motions out and works as a WR some, etc..

Royal is your slot when you go to 3 WR.

Design some end arounds that get the defense biting on a Tebow designed draw when he pitches it to Royal on an end around out of the slot. McGahee, Fells, and Decker setting up blocks. That'll be a back breaker when teams start jumping to get after Tebow on running downs.

Lot of interesting trick plays you could cook up really, but a base offense that gives him TEs on each end of the line where they can either stay in to block or attack the defense vertically would be money for Tebow. His single best passing strength is his deep ball, so why wouldn't you look for ways to get Thomas or Green on a safety or linebacker 20 yards down field.

In short, something very much like what the Patriots do with Gronkowski and Hernandez.
Carolina is literally running option plays with Cam Newton.

Quote:
Come the draft I spend our 1st on DT or CB, our 2nd on a MLB, and then use our 3rd on a power back type to replace McGahee long term. Then after hitting more areas of need on the defense finish the draft off by grabbing more depth for the OL and the best later round RB we can find.
Agreed, though I would just take BPA among MLB, DT, RB, and CB over the course of the whole draft.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:41 PM   #20
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best way to build around Tebow would be to trade him
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:47 PM   #21
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I like our WR lineup when healthy. We need a big bruising RB, upgrade the right side of the line and a pass catching stud at TE.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:48 PM   #22
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I'd like to see more slants out of the Z from Royal. Use that quickness to burst out the seam and split the safeties.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #23
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Trade a pick for percy harvin, get a pouncey, and fire mccoy, sign urban.

Jking.

Shotgun more, bootleg, reverses, and send a wr on a 9 route every damn play to pull the fs off the slot and te.

Done and done.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #24
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Just a quick question: Why Royal in the slot? We've been trying to make that work since his 2nd season, and he's been pretty ineffective at it for basically the entire time.
Because at this point do you play him over Decker or Lloyd somewhere else?

The slot will work for Royal if he's used correctly. I just don't think we've done that.

Under McDaniels he was always an also ran because year one McDaniels designed the whole passing game around feeding Marshall the ball. Year two it was all about Gaffney and Lloyd.

Royal has been marginalized in this offense the last two years and unless he shows something in the slot he'll continue to be. We've got a lot of positions were I think we need to try some changes, but WR isn't one of them. If Royal wants to be a featured part of our offense he needs to get healthy and make some big plays.

No way you take Decker off the field at this point though. He's looked like the better receiver and is definitely a better run blocker.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #25
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Because at this point do you play him over Decker or Lloyd somewhere else?

The slot will work for Royal if he's used correctly. I just don't think we've done that.

Under McDaniels he was always an also ran because year one McDaniels designed the whole passing game around feeding Marshall the ball. Year two it was all about Gaffney and Lloyd.

Royal has been marginalized in this offense the last two years and unless he shows something in the slot he'll continue to be. We've got a lot of positions were I think we need to try some changes, but WR isn't one of them. If Royal wants to be a featured part of our offense he needs to get healthy and make some big plays.

No way you take Decker off the field at this point though. He's looked like the better receiver and is definitely a better run blocker.
Personally, I think that using Decker in the slot could have serious merit. His size difference alone against your average nickel back would cause serious problems for the defense. Combine that with the ability to catch in traffic that he displayed in college, and he is a serious weapon to consider in the slot.

Just my opinion, though.

Edit:I should note that in a base two WR formation, I would of course still have Lloyd and Decker out on the field.

Last edited by randomtask; 10-11-2011 at 02:26 PM..
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