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Old 10-03-2011, 10:55 AM   #1
orng&blu
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Default Shame or Apathy?

What should we really be feeling? After a humiliating lambasting in green bay, I am at a loss..... No amount of rationalization can ever be adequate for that pathetic showing! That was the worst defensive effort in a couple of decades. I have lost track of how many ways Orton can choke now as well, its MANY! I don't care about "long term plans" or its Fox's first year... BLAH BLAH BLAH... PA-THE-TIC!!!!!
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:08 AM   #2
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Feeling shame would be a good start. They basically mocked us with the onside kick. That's what this team has become...a laughingstock...
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:12 AM   #3
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Yes, they pretty much mocked the entire game. I agree, the whackers had absolutely no respect for the broncos, nor was there a reason to have any.....
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:13 AM   #4
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I felt apathy before the game so shame wasn't really an issue. Everyone knows the Broncos are straight up garbage and have been for years.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:14 AM   #5
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Hope for me. It's easy to whine, piss, and moan (constantly). For me, I choose to see a lot of hope for the young kids who are playing their hearts out for this team.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:21 AM   #6
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Hope for me. It's easy to whine, piss, and moan (constantly). For me, I choose to see a lot of hope for the young kids who are playing their hearts out for this team.
You are not seriously trying to enter into the "nobility of losing" argument here are you? The "its ok if you tried hard" politically correct crowd? I will bet that if you were to actually talk to the "young kids who are playing their hearts out" that they are very upset about losing as well... and by the way, yesterday was not just a loss, they were beat down, stomped, disrespected, humiliated and laughed at..... like I said, there is NO amount of rationalization that is adequate for that disgrace in green bay.

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:21 AM   #7
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Hope for me. It's easy to whine, piss, and moan (constantly). For me, I choose to see a lot of hope for the young kids who are playing their hearts out for this team.
No kidding. The Mane has turned into b**** and whine central (you know who you are ). I think that anybody who has watched football for enough years and saw the kind of team that Elway and Fox were inheriting were going to give them three years before expecting major improvement.

Four games in and the b****es are going hysterical.

Just watching Von Miller play has given me hope for the future.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:28 AM   #8
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No kidding. The Mane has turned into b**** and whine central (you know who you are ). I think that anybody who has watched football for enough years and saw the kind of team that Elway and Fox were inheriting were going to give them three years before expecting major improvement.

Four games in and the b****es are going hysterical.

Just watching Von Miller play has given me hope for the future.
I admit I b**** a little too and get a little hysterical and sometimes am a gutless drunk (what can I say, dude's my hero...now if I could only rock that coat or the sexy workout outfit he wore in the conference room pic...dude is like Hugh Hefner of football...sexxxxy).

okay, um, uncomfortable moment aside, I still have hope, but I am still a newbie when it comes to football. I didn't even watch football when Elway played, except well the time I was an NFL volunteer at Superbowl XXXII). I guess I figure there will be crap years and good years and hopefully fewer of the former and more of the latter.

Anyway, Go Broncos! And woo hoo Eric Decker, please don't leave us for another team, it's nice having a talented receiver who seems like a decent human being. (oh and not too hard to look at also...no wonder he gets so many looks from Kyle).
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by orng&blu View Post
You are not seriously trying to enter into the "nobility of losing" argument here are you? The "its ok if you tried hard" politically correct crowd? I will bet that if you were to actually talk to the "young kids who are playing their hearts out" that they are very upset about losing as well... and by the way, yesterday was not just a loss, they were beat down, stomped, disrespected, humiliated and laughed at..... like I said, there is NO amount of rationalization that is adequate for that disgrace in green bay.
Here's a question for you: Were you surprised by what went down yesterday? If yes, why? If no, why are you b****ing about it today?
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:31 AM   #10
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No kidding. The Mane has turned into b**** and whine central (you know who you are ). I think that anybody who has watched football for enough years and saw the kind of team that Elway and Fox were inheriting were going to give them three years before expecting major improvement.

Four games in and the b****es are going hysterical.

Just watching Von Miller play has given me hope for the future.

Well, your very considered and learned opinion aside here, this is PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL, not your brother's pee-wee league. The horrible effort show in green bay is UN-ACCEPTABLE to Broncos fans of ALL types. By the way, the first Bronco's game I attended was in 1967 as a kid... so PLEASE don't presume to lecture from your presumed lofty perch. Thankyou very little.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:36 AM   #11
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I was apathetic going into the season after it was decided that Orton was going to be the starter, but that is steadily shifting towards utter confusion and downright anger at this staff.

Yesterday was not only a humiliating defeat, but it was made even more humiliating and ire inspiring given coach Fox's use, and comments regarding Tebow.

In the span of about 15 minutes I was utterly amazed by the decisions that were mind boggling. Starting with Tebow's play. So you finally put the kid in at QB, I get excited thinking that maybe he's going to be a big part of the game plan. I'm ready for a little trickery or some play action, maybe an option.

But what do we get? A quarterback draw. Really? You're going to run him out there and call something with all the creativity of a basic math problem, and then you're going to sit him for the rest of the game and afterwards say that you used him at quarterback?

That was hugely disturbing to me coming from a coach who's supposed to be savvy, wise, and mature. It points to a desire on the part of Fox to not only avoid using Tebow, but to undermine Tebow just so he can put his thumb under his nose, wiggle his fingers and say, "nah nah nuh boo boo, I told you Orton gave us a better chance to win."

It struck me as more spiteful than anything McDipwipe did while he was here.

After that we get to watch Orton throw a terrible pick six, watch a poorly coached ST unit get taken advantage of, and then watch Orton not even manage to throw a TD pass to a receiver who is literally 20 yards beyond the closest defender.

The media has proclaimed Fox to be the victim, in Carolina, of an owner who was unwilling to field a competitive team, but from what I've seen thus far I would say that Fox was not at all an innocent victim in Carolina.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #12
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Here's a question for you: Were you surprised by what went down yesterday? If yes, why? If no, why are you b****ing about it today?
Yes I WAS surprised, the effort in Tenn was much better, sans Orton blowing it, and I expected much more! The whackers put them in their place, and what irks me was they let them.... I expect more from a team wearing the orange an blue.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #13
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I think we should start feeling lucky.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:38 AM   #14
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Well, your very considered and learned opinion aside here, this is PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL, not your brother's pee-wee league. The horrible effort show in green bay is UN-ACCEPTABLE to Broncos fans of ALL types. By the way, the first Bronco's game I attended was in 1967 as a kid... so PLEASE don't presume to lecture from your presumed lofty perch. Thankyou very little.
I disagree. I thought they played with a lot of effort. I didn't see any giving up or slacking at all. In fact, that was one of the good things I took away from this game. The team is still playing hard, even if they don't have the kind of players they need to compete with a team like Green Bay. Perhaps, in all those years, you should have paid closer attention?
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:39 AM   #15
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I think that anybody who has watched football for enough years and saw the kind of team that Elway and Fox were inheriting were going to give them three years before expecting major improvement.
If that's the case why start a lame duck QB? We were told that the justification is winning now. If you're saying they're committed to a rebuild, and good fans should understand that, starting Orton has absolutely no value.

You're trying to have it both ways, and it's just laughable.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:44 AM   #16
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I disagree. I thought they played with a lot of effort. I didn't see any giving up or slacking at all. In fact, that was one of the good things I took away from this game. The team is still playing hard, even if they don't have the kind of players they need to compete with a team like Green Bay. Perhaps, in all those years, you should have paid closer attention?
Wow, aparently your reading comprehension skills are lacking, did I not say that there is NO amount of rationalization that would excuse that humiliation? That is all that you are doing is rationalizing...... sad.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:04 PM   #17
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If that's the case why start a lame duck QB? We were told that the justification is winning now. If you're saying they're committed to a rebuild, and good fans should understand that, starting Orton has absolutely no value.

You're trying to have it both ways, and it's just laughable.
Those who are emotionally invested in Tebow will never accept the possibility that the coaching staff of the Broncos believes that Orton gives them a better chance to win. Ever. The fans are looking at it emotionally. The coaching staff is not.

McDaniels no doubt had a plan in mind when he went after Tebow. Maybe he was going to go with some kind of spread hybrid? He designed a bunch of plays for Tebow that were pretty much Urban 2.0. There was no learning curve there for Tebow. Elway and Fox came in with a different plan, and a different concept. The question becomes, are they going to change their concept of the kind of team they want to build to fit Tebow's skill package, or are they going to try and train Tebow to learn the skills necessary to fit their vision of the team they want to build? What will work the fastest, altering the team, the gameplans, and the basic team concept to fit Tebow, or trying to alter Tebow to fit the team they believe will work the best, long term? Fox is not going to the spread offense, so fuggedaboutit. When Elway came in one of the first statements he made is, "Championships are won from the pocket." I guess nobody believed him.

Obviously, given the fan outrage, it would be much easier to put Tebow out there, win or lose, but then you have to consider what effect that move would have on the team chemistry for the future. Does the Oline have to change its blocking schemes for Tebow? Do the receivers have to change their routes? If they don't see Tebow as the long term answer already, how much do they change their team concept to adapt to him? To assume that Fox isn't playing Tebow just to spite the fans, or some other conspiratorial reason is bull****. If they believe that Tebow is not ready, why would they put him out there? Like it or not, that's the kind of decision coaches are paid to make.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:06 PM   #18
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Wow, aparently your reading comprehension skills are lacking, did I not say that there is NO amount of rationalization that would excuse that humiliation? That is all that you are doing is rationalizing...... sad.
You said the Broncos gave a "...horrible effort" that was "unacceptable to all Bronco fans." I disagree. They lost to a better team but gave a good effort.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:21 PM   #19
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Shamapathy?
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:27 PM   #20
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total apathy. I more or les expected that
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:35 PM   #21
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Those who are emotionally invested in Tebow will never accept the possibility that the coaching staff of the Broncos believes that Orton gives them a better chance to win. Ever. The fans are looking at it emotionally. The coaching staff is not.
I'm not emotionally invested in Tebow at all. I am emotionally invested in the Broncos, and if you accept a "rebuilding" mode, Orton as a starter completely goes against rebuilding.

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McDaniels no doubt had a plan in mind when he went after Tebow. Maybe he was going to go with some kind of spread hybrid? He designed a bunch of plays for Tebow that were pretty much Urban 2.0. There was no learning curve there for Tebow.
we have the same offensive coordinator we had last year; those pages are still around.

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Elway and Fox came in with a different plan, and a different concept. The question becomes, are they going to change their concept of the kind of team they want to build to fit Tebow's skill package, or are they going to try and train Tebow to learn the skills necessary to fit their vision of the team they want to build?
It doesn't matter either way. What does matter is that you're developing something, which is what a rebuild is all about. With Orton there is no hope of development unless you're completely delusional.

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What will work the fastest, altering the team, the gameplans, and the basic team concept to fit Tebow, or trying to alter Tebow to fit the team they believe will work the best, long term?
Again, it doesn't matter. Put Tebow out there with whatever concepts you think are going to work long term and let him have at it. If he's as bad as Orton, fine, draft Luck next year in good conscience knowing that you don't have a QBOTF on the roster. If he's good, you can use that pick to fill one of the many other holes on this team.

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Fox is not going to the spread offense, so fuggedaboutit. When Elway came in one of the first statements he made is, "Championships are won from the pocket." I guess nobody believed him.
I believe he's geuine in that sentiment, though i think it's a bit pigheaded with Tebow on the roster and with Ben Roethlisberger having more titles in the last 10 years than anyone not named Brady.

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Obviously, given the fan outrage, it would be much easier to put Tebow out there, win or lose, but then you have to consider what effect that move would have on the team chemistry for the future.
The team chemistry argument is absurd at this point. They've won, what, four games in the last 20 under Orton. No one on the team would cry foul at this point over a change at QB. No one excepting maybe Orton and his butt-boy Lloyd.

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Does the Oline have to change its blocking schemes for Tebow? Do the receivers have to change their routes? If they don't see Tebow as the long term answer already, how much do they change their team concept to adapt to him?
They don't have to change the team concept to suit Tebow. They need to find out what Tebow can do in that concept, and work on his development. If he fails, so what? Orton is completely failing now and all that's accomplished by starting him is making this a worse team next year.

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To assume that Fox isn't playing Tebow just to spite the fans, or some other conspiratorial reason is bull****. If they believe that Tebow is not ready, why would they put him out there? Like it or not, that's the kind of decision coaches are paid to make.
I get it, you're of the "coach knows better group." I disagree with that take and will continue to state the case that Orton works directly against the rebuilding of this franchise.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:36 PM   #22
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I see little vision or plan from the front office. Our biggest off season needs were ignored, and the handling of the QB situation is terrible at best. We have no quarterback we are developing, and the guy in there now is gone next year, no matter what.

I'd be fine with losing if I thought we were breaking down the team to build it back up. Instead, it seems like Fox is trying to win as many games as he can rather than try to develop a team for the future.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:42 PM   #23
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I'm not emotionally invested in Tebow at all. I am emotionally invested in the Broncos, and if you accept a "rebuilding" mode, Orton as a starter completely goes against rebuilding.

we have the same offensive coordinator we had last year; those pages are still around.

It doesn't matter either way. What does matter is that you're developing something, which is what a rebuild is all about. With Orton there is no hope of development unless you're completely delusional.

Again, it doesn't matter. Put Tebow out there with whatever concepts you think are going to work long term and let him have at it. If he's as bad as Orton, fine, draft Luck next year in good conscience knowing that you don't have a QBOTF on the roster. If he's good, you can use that pick to fill one of the many other holes on this team.

I believe he's geuine in that sentiment, though i think it's a bit pigheaded with Tebow on the roster and with Ben Roethlisberger having more titles in the last 10 years than anyone not named Brady.

The team chemistry argument is absurd at this point. They've won, what, four games in the last 20 under Orton. No one on the team would cry foul at this point over a change at QB. No one excepting maybe Orton and his butt-boy Lloyd.

They don't have to change the team concept to suit Tebow. They need to find out what Tebow can do in that concept, and work on his development. If he fails, so what? Orton is completely failing now and all that's accomplished by starting him is making this a worse team next year.

I get it, you're of the "coach knows better group." I disagree with that take and will continue to state the case that Orton works directly against the rebuilding of this franchise.
You're making the assumption that they don't already know what they have in Tebow and should play him to find out. I'm assuming they know much better than any of us and are waiting for him to achieve benchmarks as a QB that he still hasn't been able to reach.

Frankly, I'd take Elway's judgment regarding the position over pretty much anybody else's on Earth.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:43 PM   #24
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What should we really be feeling? After a humiliating lambasting in green bay, I am at a loss..... No amount of rationalization can ever be adequate for that pathetic showing! That was the worst defensive effort in a couple of decades. I have lost track of how many ways Orton can choke now as well, its MANY! I don't care about "long term plans" or its Fox's first year... BLAH BLAH BLAH... PA-THE-TIC!!!!!
I'm not a doctor but I would imagine what you should be feeling depends on a variety of health factors.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:48 PM   #25
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Nothing about the Broncos was respected yesterday. Going for it on 4th early. Onsides kicking early. Etc. They didn't have respect for any potential comeback when they benched starters in the fourth.
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