Long term plan: What is it? - The Orange Mane

Kaylore · 10-03-2011, 09:03 AM

Let this thread be about two things: What EFX is trying to do and what you think they should do.

Personally, I suppose they do not think Tebow can play and want to draft another QB. That or Fox things he'll lose the locker room if he doesn't let Orton start. Either of these don't really show any signs toward the long term goals of the franchise. Orton isn't taking this team anywhere, and especially if he leaves next season, what is the point of continuing on?

Is it possible they know Orton will lead them to Luck?

rbackfactory80 · 10-03-2011, 09:07 AM

It has to be. They just can't be as stupid as the decisions they are making.

oubronco · 10-03-2011, 09:09 AM

Suck for Luck in full swing

sirhcyennek81 · 10-03-2011, 09:10 AM

Plan? What plan?

bronco militia · 10-03-2011, 09:11 AM

there hasn't been a plan since the day Shanny was fired.

Tombstone RJ · 10-03-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Let this thread be about two things: What EFX is trying to do and what you think they should do.

Personally, I suppose they do not think Tebow can play and want to draft another QB. That or Fox things he'll lose the locker room if he doesn't let Orton start. Either of these don't really show any signs toward the long term goals of the franchise. Orton isn't taking this team anywhere, and especially if he leaves next season, what is the point of continuing on?

Is it possible they know Orton will lead them to Luck?

Fox has to save face with the team and he is forced to play the vet--Orton--because he gives the team the best chance to win running the style of offense Fox likes to run.

Once the Broncos are mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs there's no reason to continue with Orton. At this time I think Tebow will be played. Tebow is the only QB on the roster with a long term contract.

jhns · 10-03-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco militia

there hasn't been a plan since the day Shanny was fired.

This. It is what happens when you hire incompetent coaches.

Fox has a history of **** QB play. I would bet good money that he actually wants Orton to be his QBOTF. Hopefully Elway stops that from happening.

elsid13 · 10-03-2011, 09:15 AM

I think the plan was to see what they actually had on this team and use this year as period to see what worth saving and what needed to be replaced. I also think they thought that couple of veterans would allow them to be competitive if they could get production out of Doom, Champ, DJ and M. Thomas. That hasn't worked.

gyldenlove · 10-03-2011, 09:20 AM

My guess is that the plan at the beginning of the season was to see how far this team could go with the talent they have and then evaluate from there what additions would be necesary, it is a very conservative approach which I think fits well with Fox and Elway. I really have no idea where Xanders fits in, he was a bean counter for Shanahan and according to him he was just a rubberstamp for Mcdaniels, but wether or not that is true is not known to me.

I think we have seen in the first 4 that we are something like a 5-11 team, not very good but competitive when we play other bad or mediocre teams. In that light I think the only option is to settle the future of the QB position ASAP. It is a given that Orton has not done enough this year to warrant a new contract. Quinn, despite showing some promise early in practice, is not a gamer and fell completely apart in the preseason, he may be offered a backup contract but I doubt he will take it unless nothing else comes along. Tebow has to be given a shot, if for not other reason to be certain that he is not the future of this team, so we can walk away from his contract. If Tebow fails to improve the team after the bye week we should draft QB in round 1, with the new contract structure it will be cheap comparably and so the risk will be much less, the talent level also seems very attractive at that position in the draft.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 10-03-2011, 09:21 AM

The plan is building through the draft. I don't think Fox sees Orton as the QBOTF, but he doesn't see Tebow as that either. The QB of this team's next 10 years is not on the roster right now.

I think building through the draft is the way to do it. Shanahan got in some bad spots bringing in questionable players with big price tags, and I think EFX knows that sort of thing can't continue.

The plan is short term pain, long term benefit. In our first draft with this FO, we've gotten some really solid pieces. Love Von Miller. Love Moore. But we weren't going to compete this year anyway; why bring in short term solutions for what really is a long-term build job?

Kid A · 10-03-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Let this thread be about two things: What EFX is trying to do and what you think they should do.

Personally, I suppose they do not think Tebow can play and want to draft another QB. That or Fox things he'll lose the locker room if he doesn't let Orton start. Either of these don't really show any signs toward the long term goals of the franchise. Orton isn't taking this team anywhere, and especially if he leaves next season, what is the point of continuing on?

Is it possible they know Orton will lead them to Luck?

I think it's just those two lines combined. They don't want either starting next year, so they might as well go with the experienced guy who the locker room wants.

A) Mediocre veteran with locker room support or B) young QB with rough mechanics. I think in terms of wins this year, A gives you 1 or 2 more this year. Maybe, maybe not. Either way it's close.

And, from the EFX view, there's no point taking on the risks of starting a virtual rookie (locker room division, more mistakes, not as likely to fully involve all the offensive players) if you plan to bring in another rookie next season. Which it seems they do.

Messy and frustrating as fans, but it seems obvious they see QB as being in a holding pattern this season while they make changes on defense and in the running game. Next year they will take on the risk/reward proposition of playing a young QB.

frerottenextelway · 10-03-2011, 09:28 AM

The lockerroom seemed to rally behind Tebow last year. We went 1-2, but the guys played hard, never gave up in any of those games. I don't buy that for a reason at all.

DrFate · 10-03-2011, 09:29 AM

The plan is continue treating the fanbase like brain-dead drones with open wallets. (that's my guess, anyway)

Expect a continuation of pressers and tweets that say 'You didn't see what you thought you saw, we are actually really good!!! Keep buying tickets!!'

cabronco · 10-03-2011, 09:39 AM

It sure looks like EFX from the outside is playing the SFL card. What the FO is trying to sell us, that Kyle gives us the best chance to win BS, which is why they want to keep him on the field. Alright already that experiment has failed. We are just spinning our wheels keeping Orton in there. If Tebow is not our future , we need to get as much value as we can in a trade, so why not play him? Are they afraid he may rally the team and win some games, ruining the chances for the SFL card. Kind of a twisted way of running the football team, but thats what I see.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 10-03-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabronco

It sure looks like EFX from the outside is playing the SFL card. What the FO is trying to sell us, that Kyle gives us the best chance to win BS, which is why they want to keep him on the field. Alright already that experiment has failed. We are just spinning our wheels keeping Orton in there. If Tebow is not our future , we need to get as much value as we can in a trade, so why not play him? Are they afraid he may rally the team and win some games, ruining the chances for the SFL card. Kind of a twisted way of running the football team, but thats what I see.

Or are they afraid Tim really is going to look like total dog****, completely obliterating his value?

Lolad · 10-03-2011, 09:41 AM

This is what fox said: "We need our starting quarterback to get experience for us to improve. That's the idea behind that. You know he needs to get better in our system," Fox said. "I know he gets judged on the past couple of years, but we're trying to get him better in our system and use that experience to get better."

I will bring this back up when they do it. EFX will sign Orton to a new 3 year deal after this season. They will NOT have to overpay because his #'s will be terrible. Like Fox just said, this system is "new" to Orton they will give him another year to build on this one.

BULL**** its a new system... We are just running the ball with a purpose this year then previous. That's why I take from that comment

DrFate · 10-03-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Or are they afraid Tim really is going to look like total dog****, completely obliterating his value?

What value is that again?

Steve Prefontaine · 10-03-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Or are they afraid Tim really is going to look like total dog****, completely obliterating his value?

Good point. Right now he could probably get some solid value.

Wrong again.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 10-03-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFate

What value is that again?

Did you read the post I quoted? It said, "If Tebow is not our future, we need to get as much value for him IN A TRADE."

So. Trade value.

They're called "sentences." read from left to right, top to bottom. Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

oubronco · 10-03-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Or are they afraid Tim really is going to look like total dog****, completely obliterating his value?

.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 10-03-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Prefontaine

Good point. Right now he could probably get some solid value.

Wrong again.

You don't think Miami would trade something to get some asses in the seats right now? He's worth more to some teams as an unknown quantity.

NFLBRONCO · 10-03-2011, 09:46 AM

Denver brought in a D minded coach to fix D that can't be fixed overnight. Now people complain about O when other Fox O's have hardly lit the world on fire. It is what it is why are soo many fans expecting instant success on a very awful talented team across the board. Why do we need to know long term plan it's less then a yr with this FO. Let's see a few season's before we evaluate this crew.

I look at the Broncos like I do with CU

First Step

We need to add talent across the board draft well for a few season's. Progress will not happen until we do this.

Drafting Luck is the only way this process speeds up any plan FO might have longterm.

Tombstone RJ · 10-03-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Or are they afraid Tim really is going to look like total dog****, completely obliterating his value?

He has no trade value as it is. Trading Tebow now is as much of a gamble as drafting him in the first round. The reality of the situation is no one knows if he can be a ligit QB in this league or if he's a wasted pick. If the Broncos trade him without giving him a shot and he goes on to another team and lights up the scoreboard the Broncos front office will look like utter failures.

Rascal · 10-03-2011, 09:59 AM

What did people expect this year? They are playing like a slightly improved version of last year. This isn't going to get better over night.

Fedaykin · 10-03-2011, 10:00 AM

I've been assuming the long term plan is to improve/evaluate the whole team for the long term. Tebow's style is not what they want going forward, so they are sticking with Orton.

Tebow would be more interesting and maybe eek out a couple extra wins, but he's not going to help the rest of the team develop as an NFL calibre (read: pass heavy) offense as much as Orton will.

I hate it -- unless it actually pans out in 1-3 years

10-03-2011, 09:03 AM	#1
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,010 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	Long term plan: What is it? Let this thread be about two things: What EFX is trying to do and what you think they should do. Personally, I suppose they do not think Tebow can play and want to draft another QB. That or Fox things he'll lose the locker room if he doesn't let Orton start. Either of these don't really show any signs toward the long term goals of the franchise. Orton isn't taking this team anywhere, and especially if he leaves next season, what is the point of continuing on? Is it possible they know Orton will lead them to Luck?

10-03-2011, 09:21 AM	#10
TheElusiveKyleOrton www.dailydickpunch.com @RMoneyBadger Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Steamboat Springs Posts: 9,768 Adopt-a-Bronco: "Debo" Franklin	The plan is building through the draft. I don't think Fox sees Orton as the QBOTF, but he doesn't see Tebow as that either. The QB of this team's next 10 years is not on the roster right now. I think building through the draft is the way to do it. Shanahan got in some bad spots bringing in questionable players with big price tags, and I think EFX knows that sort of thing can't continue. The plan is short term pain, long term benefit. In our first draft with this FO, we've gotten some really solid pieces. Love Von Miller. Love Moore. But we weren't going to compete this year anyway; why bring in short term solutions for what really is a long-term build job? __________________ Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.

10-03-2011, 09:46 AM	#22
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,381	Denver brought in a D minded coach to fix D that can't be fixed overnight. Now people complain about O when other Fox O's have hardly lit the world on fire. It is what it is why are soo many fans expecting instant success on a very awful talented team across the board. Why do we need to know long term plan it's less then a yr with this FO. Let's see a few season's before we evaluate this crew. I look at the Broncos like I do with CU First Step We need to add talent across the board draft well for a few season's. Progress will not happen until we do this. Drafting Luck is the only way this process speeds up any plan FO might have longterm. Last edited by NFLBRONCO; 10-03-2011 at 10:01 AM..

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10-03-2011, 09:07 AM	#2
rbackfactory80 Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 4,609	It has to be. They just can't be as stupid as the decisions they are making.

10-03-2011, 09:09 AM	#3
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,572	Suck for Luck in full swing

10-03-2011, 09:10 AM	#4
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,668 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	Plan? What plan?

10-03-2011, 09:11 AM	#5
bronco militia Ring of Famer THE GREATEST Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: colorado springs, co Posts: 22,568	there hasn't been a plan since the day Shanny was fired.

10-03-2011, 09:15 AM	#8
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,080	I think the plan was to see what they actually had on this team and use this year as period to see what worth saving and what needed to be replaced. I also think they thought that couple of veterans would allow them to be competitive if they could get production out of Doom, Champ, DJ and M. Thomas. That hasn't worked.

10-03-2011, 09:20 AM	#9
gyldenlove Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London, ON Posts: 10,015 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	My guess is that the plan at the beginning of the season was to see how far this team could go with the talent they have and then evaluate from there what additions would be necesary, it is a very conservative approach which I think fits well with Fox and Elway. I really have no idea where Xanders fits in, he was a bean counter for Shanahan and according to him he was just a rubberstamp for Mcdaniels, but wether or not that is true is not known to me. I think we have seen in the first 4 that we are something like a 5-11 team, not very good but competitive when we play other bad or mediocre teams. In that light I think the only option is to settle the future of the QB position ASAP. It is a given that Orton has not done enough this year to warrant a new contract. Quinn, despite showing some promise early in practice, is not a gamer and fell completely apart in the preseason, he may be offered a backup contract but I doubt he will take it unless nothing else comes along. Tebow has to be given a shot, if for not other reason to be certain that he is not the future of this team, so we can walk away from his contract. If Tebow fails to improve the team after the bye week we should draft QB in round 1, with the new contract structure it will be cheap comparably and so the risk will be much less, the talent level also seems very attractive at that position in the draft.

10-03-2011, 09:28 AM	#12
frerottenextelway █████ █████ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: █████ Posts: 7,888 Adopt-a-Bronco: ██	The lockerroom seemed to rally behind Tebow last year. We went 1-2, but the guys played hard, never gave up in any of those games. I don't buy that for a reason at all.

10-03-2011, 09:29 AM	#13
DrFate Lord of Order Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tower of Fate Posts: 4,388	The plan is continue treating the fanbase like brain-dead drones with open wallets. (that's my guess, anyway) Expect a continuation of pressers and tweets that say 'You didn't see what you thought you saw, we are actually really good!!! Keep buying tickets!!'

10-03-2011, 09:39 AM	#14
cabronco Fish & Chips PFM Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: So.Cal. Posts: 5,469 Adopt-a-Bronco: wth happened	It sure looks like EFX from the outside is playing the SFL card. What the FO is trying to sell us, that Kyle gives us the best chance to win BS, which is why they want to keep him on the field. Alright already that experiment has failed. We are just spinning our wheels keeping Orton in there. If Tebow is not our future , we need to get as much value as we can in a trade, so why not play him? Are they afraid he may rally the team and win some games, ruining the chances for the SFL card. Kind of a twisted way of running the football team, but thats what I see.

10-03-2011, 09:41 AM	#16
Lolad Ring of Famer Fan Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,517 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	This is what fox said: "We need our starting quarterback to get experience for us to improve. That's the idea behind that. You know he needs to get better in our system," Fox said. "I know he gets judged on the past couple of years, but we're trying to get him better in our system and use that experience to get better." I will bring this back up when they do it. EFX will sign Orton to a new 3 year deal after this season. They will NOT have to overpay because his #'s will be terrible. Like Fox just said, this system is "new" to Orton they will give him another year to build on this one. BULL**** its a new system... We are just running the ball with a purpose this year then previous. That's why I take from that comment

10-03-2011, 09:59 AM	#24
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,581 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	What did people expect this year? They are playing like a slightly improved version of last year. This isn't going to get better over night.

10-03-2011, 10:00 AM	#25
Fedaykin Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,790 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I've been assuming the long term plan is to improve/evaluate the whole team for the long term. Tebow's style is not what they want going forward, so they are sticking with Orton. Tebow would be more interesting and maybe eek out a couple extra wins, but he's not going to help the rest of the team develop as an NFL calibre (read: pass heavy) offense as much as Orton will. I hate it -- unless it actually pans out in 1-3 years