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Old 09-25-2011, 06:36 PM   #1
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Default Defensive Concerns... Especially moving forward

Large causes for alarm vs the pass:

4th worst in the NFL as far as opponent QB rating (106.8 to opposing QBs). Normally wouldn't care much... but the QBs we've played so far have been:

-Jason "I-Can't-Work-With-This" Campbell
-Andy the ginger Dalton in his 2nd ever NFL game after a LOCKOUT season
-40 year old version of Matt Hasselback with an injured Kenny Britt for most of the game

^ We have surrendered a 67.7% completion rate to THOSE QBs... along with 5 TDs.

We have a total of 5 sacks. Only one was gained without blitzing.

We have no interceptions.

In before "Elvis and Champ would fix this all and had no injury concern heading into the season and it was fine that we completely ignored CB depth through the draft and FA!"
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:38 PM   #2
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Well even in the offseason I called for a corner in the next draft.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:40 PM   #3
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i may be wrong, but it looked like woodyard is being targeted week to week and getting burned muchly. also see cassius vaughn being targeted alot. are they weak spots?
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:41 PM   #4
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With Champ and Doom back those numbers should improve. at least you would hope so. But its pretty obvious Denver is thin at CB.


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Old 09-25-2011, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
...Denver is thin at CB.
Agree, but if the Philadelphia Eagles are any indication other factors also weigh heavily into this. The Eagles may have the best trio of CB's in the league but QB's are killing them. In their case it's probably mostly due to horrendous play at S and LB. Those are probably factors in our case as well along with our pass rush not being strong and consistent enough.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:50 PM   #6
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Agree, but if the Philadelphia Eagles are any indication other factors also weigh heavily into this. The Eagles may have the best trio of CB's in the league but QB's are killing them. In their case it's probably mostly due to horrendous play at S and LB. Those are probably factors in our case as well along with our pass rush not being strong and consistent enough.
Yeah can't say any of our LBers have looked good in coverage, although Miller has been doing better than I expected for a rookie.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:59 PM   #7
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Depth issues at CB are pretty obvious. We also seem to give up one or two big plays each game. We seem to have some issues stopping the west coast style play of Dalton and Hasselback. I wonder if that points more to a deficiency in our LBs covering skills, or if it is a schematic weakness. Allen likes to dial up pressure, and 3 & 5 step drops are a pretty effective way to counter that.

We did a pretty good job limiting the damage they did against us, despite the numbers they put up, however.

Also, we've given up fewer points every game. 23-22-17... We should hold Green By to 14. You read it here first.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:00 PM   #8
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Rodgers will certainly be a test for our pass D hes accurate and sees the field very well.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orinjkrush View Post
i may be wrong, but it looked like woodyard is being targeted week to week and getting burned muchly. also see cassius vaughn being targeted alot. are they weak spots?
Vaughn being a rookie, I think he is playing off his man a lot so he won't be burned by the big play. I also think not having Doom on passing downs makes a huge difference. We had a backup CB in place of Bailey, DJ not there and Doom out. That makes a huge difference in pressure and the ability to cover.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #10
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There are a number of things playing in here, but at the end of the day I am not too worried.

I believe in the first games we have played we have sold out heavily against the run and we have been succesful in 2 games and failed in 1 game. I think this is in part because we were so atrocious against the run last year and in part because if you can take away the ground game and force the ball in the air you can create 3rd and long situations which favour the defense.

We have certainly lacked pressure on the QB, Hunter provides almost no pass rush whatsoever, Bunkley and Vickerson are both decent against the run, but do not provide much penetration and we just do not have the depth at DT to rotate in pass rushers since we do not have any.

Our secondary has obviously suffered without Champ, and we are extremely thin at CB as is - CB is definitely an area of concern and I would be surprised if we don't go CB in round 1 of the draft.

I think we do have to keep in mind that this is a defensive unit that is short on talent, we are not going to be top 10 in the league no matter who we play against. Keeping that in mind, we are top half of the league against the run and more importantly, top half of the league in scoring defense - which is the key stat. We saw last year and the year before that gaudy pass numbers do not translate into wins, I would have no problem giving up 300 yards passing and 95+ passer rating in every single game we play this year, passing yards is a very poor predictor of wins (falling pretty much dead on unity in a reciever operator curve).

What I take from the first 3 games as positives are:

1. Improvement over last year in run and scoring defense
2. Giving away many yards between the 10 yard lines in the air
3. Talent upgrades are still necesary at all 3 levels of the defense
4. Depth at most positions is non-existant

This is not a good defense, we are not the Ravens or the Jets or Steelers, but do remember that we held the Raiders to fewer points than the Jets did and the Titans to fewer points than the Ravens did, which is not bad.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mightysmurf View Post
Well even in the offseason I called for a corner in the next draft.
What round? I am at the top on the waiting list for top picks at DL. You will have to wait your turn.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:07 PM   #12
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I thought Woodyard has actually looked pretty good.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:07 PM   #13
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We are only one game out of first, lol.

Oak beat down the jets btw.

Chargers barely beat kc, looks like oak is the front runner.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by orinjkrush View Post
i may be wrong, but it looked like woodyard is being targeted week to week and getting burned muchly. also see cassius vaughn being targeted alot. are they weak spots?
Vaughn definately.. man it seems like he gets beat every play.. he seems to get a lot of praise around here too, or at least he did before the season started.. yea he's fast but he cannot cover imo.. we have so many areas we need to address this offseason.. running back, d tackle, cornerback, quarterback, middle lb.. ugh!
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:12 PM   #15
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I thought Woodyard has actually looked pretty good.
I agree.. I'd like denver to keep him around
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncocalijohn View Post
Vaughn being a rookie, I think he is playing off his man a lot so he won't be burned by the big play. I also think not having Doom on passing downs makes a huge difference. We had a backup CB in place of Bailey, DJ not there and Doom out. That makes a huge difference in pressure and the ability to cover.
You should share your football takes more.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:22 PM   #17
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Vaughn is no rookie although he looks like it.


Hell, he has me wanting for some Lenny Walls I think.



Well, maybe not, but much more of watching him get roasted and i'll be calling for an injured Sydquan to replace him.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:26 PM   #18
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Vaughn is no rookie although he looks like it.
Yeah, you're right he's no rookie. He has that entire year where he didn't take a single snap as a DB under his belt and then a whole month of off season. Why the hell isn't he playing like a seasoned vet?
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:30 PM   #19
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Yeah, you're right he's no rookie. He has that entire year where he didn't take a single snap as a DB under his belt and then a whole month of off season. Why the hell isn't he playing like a seasoned vet?
So does that make him a rookie?


Oh, maybe he's a redshirted professional?


Pretty sure no matter how you sugarcoat it - the guy still isn't a rookie - am I correct?
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:34 PM   #20
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Yeah, you're right he's no rookie. He has that entire year where he didn't take a single snap as a DB under his belt and then a whole month of off season. Why the hell isn't he playing like a seasoned vet?
I was going to reply, but I read this while thinking of a different player and got angry again.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:34 PM   #21
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So does that make him a rookie?


Oh, maybe he's a redshirted professional?


Pretty sure no matter how you sugarcoat it - the guy still isn't a rookie - am I correct?
Wilhite has made more plays than him
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:35 PM   #22
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I don't think Vaughn is playing that bad given his position on the team. I think the real liabilities come in from Dawkins and Mays/Woodyard, none of whom have any coverage skills to speak of.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:44 PM   #23
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I was going to reply, but I read this while thinking of a different player and got angry again.
That could really be any number of players at this point.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
There are a number of things playing in here, but at the end of the day I am not too worried.

I believe in the first games we have played we have sold out heavily against the run and we have been succesful in 2 games and failed in 1 game. I think this is in part because we were so atrocious against the run last year and in part because if you can take away the ground game and force the ball in the air you can create 3rd and long situations which favour the defense.

We have certainly lacked pressure on the QB, Hunter provides almost no pass rush whatsoever, Bunkley and Vickerson are both decent against the run, but do not provide much penetration and we just do not have the depth at DT to rotate in pass rushers since we do not have any.

Our secondary has obviously suffered without Champ, and we are extremely thin at CB as is - CB is definitely an area of concern and I would be surprised if we don't go CB in round 1 of the draft.

I think we do have to keep in mind that this is a defensive unit that is short on talent, we are not going to be top 10 in the league no matter who we play against. Keeping that in mind, we are top half of the league against the run and more importantly, top half of the league in scoring defense - which is the key stat. We saw last year and the year before that gaudy pass numbers do not translate into wins, I would have no problem giving up 300 yards passing and 95+ passer rating in every single game we play this year, passing yards is a very poor predictor of wins (falling pretty much dead on unity in a reciever operator curve).

What I take from the first 3 games as positives are:

1. Improvement over last year in run and scoring defense
2. Giving away many yards between the 10 yard lines in the air
3. Talent upgrades are still necesary at all 3 levels of the defense
4. Depth at most positions is non-existant

This is not a good defense, we are not the Ravens or the Jets or Steelers, but do remember that we held the Raiders to fewer points than the Jets did and the Titans to fewer points than the Ravens did, which is not bad.
It's been a pretty stellar indicator of wins for anyone playing Denver.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:52 PM   #25
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It's been a pretty stellar indicator of wins for anyone playing Denver.
Yep, however, I'd prefer passing yards at this point to rushing yards. We have a head coach and DC on this team that are secondary coaches. I'm less concerned about that area of the defense eventually getting fixed (not happening this season) than I am about the front 7.
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