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Old 09-25-2011, 02:04 PM   #1
SonOfLe-loLang
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Default I'm asking ONE MORE TIME.

I don't care if this is a tired argument. I'm saying it anyway. Sue me. Well, with a twist.

If you think Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win as a starting QB, FINE, I don't necessarily agree, but I'll trust the coach's football expertise over mine.

Since the retirement of Davis, goal line offense has been the Broncos achilles heel. Last year, when McD implemented the Tebow goalline offense, the problems disappeared over night. OVER NIGHT. Not including the games he started, i dont even recall a SINGLE PLAY that didnt go for a TD out of that jumbo goal line package. There's a lot of film and a lot of proof that its incredibly effective and that Tim Tebow is a top 3 goal line threat in the league, if not the absolute best at it (he was great at FLA too).

John Fox gives us a lot of BS about "we play so and so cuz so and so gives us the best chance to win." So, riddle me this...why not play Tebow at the goal line when, clearly, he's, BY FAR, the best Bronco option at the goal line? 1st and 5 at the goal line? orton shouldnt be on the ****ing field.

Is it political reasons? Is it cause youre stubborn, coach Fox? We lost both our games this year because we couldnt score from the goal line (well its not the sole reason, but its a reason). If you had a 6'3 250 FB that had an uncanny knack for finding inches near the goal line, you'd play him without a second thought. Ours just happens to play QB.

I'm sorry, this is a fireable offense to me. You're purposely keeping an amazing option on the bench because you don't want to "make waves." Hey John Fox, if the Broncos were 3-0 right now, Bronco Nation would be incredibly happy and would NOT question your decisions. But because you are stubborn, we're 1-2 and, ironically, your getting exactly what you're trying to avoid.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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It's stubbornness, IMO.

Look, if he wants to start Orton, fine. Like you, I'll buy best chance to win, etc.

But IMO him not playing Tebow at all is stubbornness/ego. He wants to prove he can do it without a gimmick, etc.

At least, that's how I see it.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:07 PM   #3
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I think he is afraid of adding to the QB controversy...
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:08 PM   #4
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Fox is proving to be the NFL version of a luddite
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #5
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I think he is afraid of adding to the QB controversy...
How would Tim Tebow running the ball in create a controversy. He's an a-hole if he believes this. You know how you avoid a controversy? WIN GAMES. His decisions are losing us games.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #6
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He wants to prove he can do it without a gimmick, etc.
1) the brass doesn't want to do anything to flame the Tebow fires
2) he's not going to play Orton, have Orton get in the red zone, then pull him - it's like riding your #1 RB 80 yards down the field, only to have him trot off for some bruiser to get a the final 3 yards and six. It's a slap in the face.

(I'm not endorsing these sentiments, I simply believe them to be Foxes reasoning)
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:11 PM   #7
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A lot of Panther fans were upset and frustrated by the way Fox coached over the years. Stubborn is not going to win us games....

But remember, he said Denver was going to run the most sophisticated running game in the league. More like most predictable...
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:11 PM   #8
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How would Tim Tebow running the ball in create a controversy. He's an a-hole if he believes this. You know how you avoid a controversy? WIN GAMES. His decisions are losing us games.
I agree. But, I think its why there's no Tebow package
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:11 PM   #9
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1) the brass doesn't want to do anything to flame the Tebow fires
2) he's not going to play Orton, have Orton get in the red zone, then pull him - it's like riding your #1 RB 80 yards down the field, only to have him trot off for some bruiser to get a the final 3 yards and six. It's a slap in the face.

(I'm not endorsing these sentiments, I simply believe them to be Foxes reasoning)
Then he should be fired. Kyle Orton makes a lot of money, I don't give a **** about his feelings.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #10
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it's like riding your #1 RB 80 yards down the field, only to have him trot off for some bruiser to get a the final 3 yards and six. It's a slap in the face.
Lot's of teams do this though, Oakland do it with Bush and McFadden for instance.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #11
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1) the brass doesn't want to do anything to flame the Tebow fires
2) he's not going to play Orton, have Orton get in the red zone, then pull him - it's like riding your #1 RB 80 yards down the field, only to have him trot off for some bruiser to get a the final 3 yards and six. It's a slap in the face.

(I'm not endorsing these sentiments, I simply believe them to be Foxes reasoning)
You may be right. But for #1 specifically, it's backwards logic. If we had won today with a Tebow TD, IMO fans would just be happy we won. Every single time we lose, the Tebow chants get louder.

To a certain extent I understand that if you let Tebow play, it's a can of worms. Catch-22 I suppose. Not playing Tebow and losing is worse, IMO.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:13 PM   #12
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Then he should be fired. Kyle Orton makes a lot of money, I don't give a **** about his feelings.
I'm on your side
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:16 PM   #13
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Lot's of teams do this though, Oakland do it with Bush and McFadden for instance.
It depends on the players, I guess. I know Warrick Dunn would get 80 yards and Alstott would get 3 yards and get to spike the ball.

If the 'team first' mentality is what made the decisions, Tebow would be in the field...

It's pretty clear to me that Orton thinks a lot of himself as a QB and probably wouldn't like coming out in the redzone. (My opinion based on his comments)
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:16 PM   #14
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You may be right. But for #1 specifically, it's backwards logic. If we had won today with a Tebow TD, IMO fans would just be happy we won. Every single time we lose, the Tebow chants get louder.

To a certain extent I understand that if you let Tebow play, it's a can of worms. Catch-22 I suppose. Not playing Tebow and losing is worse, IMO.
100 percent truth. As i said, he's causing the thing he's trying to avoid.

Alanis wrote a song about this. Yes, there is a way to use Tim Tebow that actually will quiet the crowds. Just ****in win games.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:17 PM   #15
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It depends on the players, I guess. I know Warrick Dunn would get 80 yards and Alstott would get 3 yards and get to spike the ball.

If the 'team first' mentality is what made the decisions, Tebow would be in the field...

It's pretty clear to me that Orton thinks a lot of himself as a QB and probably wouldn't like coming out in the redzone. (My opinion based on his comments)
And im not even talking about the redzone...im talking 5 yards and in.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:18 PM   #16
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If we had won today with a Tebow TD, IMO fans would just be happy we won.
But I think everyone would agree that if Tebow was productive, the boo birds would be on Orton even louder. There is a reason why Tebow didn't get any snaps with the first team in preseason...
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:18 PM   #17
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The brass said, over and over the want Tebow a real QB not a gimmick QB (Ie red zone packages) 99% of coaches hate switching QB's like it or not.

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Old 09-25-2011, 02:18 PM   #18
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I think he is afraid of adding to the QB controversy...

Thats all I can think of too.

If Tebow goes in for RZ and scores. Then that opens it up even more for fans to chant for Tebow, and Boo Orton. Not to mention the press asking more questions on Tebow scores points where Orton cant deliver, shouldnt you give TT a shot now ! I'm just saying the only reason why the coaching staff doesnt play TT. Its easier not playing him at all , at least to this point, not to rekindle more fires.

To me its a stubborn way of thinking, and are losing games we could of won !
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:19 PM   #19
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The brass said, over and over the want Tebow a real QB not a gimmick QB (Ie red zone packages) 99% of coaches hate switching QB's.
It's luddite thinking
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:19 PM   #20
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But I think everyone would agree that if Tebow was productive, the boo birds would be on Orton even louder. There is a reason why Tebow didn't get any snaps with the first team in preseason...
Yeah, I can see that. I can honestly say, I wouldn't want to have to make that decision. Fox deserves some criticism, but this isn't a black and white issue, either. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:20 PM   #21
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And im not even talking about the redzone...im talking 5 yards and in.
I know what you mean - and again, I'm with you. But I just get the feeling that Fox is all about the 'old school' 'veterans play' mentality, and for Orton to get in the redzone and then have jog to the sideline for Tebow to get the rah rahs - I said it in preseason, I just didn't think it would happen.

And as soon as Tebow completes a pass for a TD, the calls for him to be the #1 get louder...
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:20 PM   #22
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Yeah, I can see that. I can honestly say, I wouldn't want to have to make that decision. Fox deserves some criticism, but this isn't a black and white issue, either. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Its a black and white issue. If we're 3-0, no one is questioning his moves. We're 1-2...people are questioning his moves. Tebow in a jumbo goal line package isn't going to ruffle the crowds...it might ignite his own rabid fan base, but they are ignited anyway.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #23
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Maybe Elway wants Luck?
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #24
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I know what you mean - and again, I'm with you. But I just get the feeling that Fox is all about the 'old school' 'veterans play' mentality, and for Orton to get in the redzone and then have jog to the sideline for Tebow to get the rah rahs - I said it in preseason, I just didn't think it would happen.

And as soon as Tebow completes a pass for a TD, the calls for him to be the #1 get louder...
Then he shouldnt be coaching. I'm sorry. its inexcusable
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #25
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Maybe Elway wants Luck?
Well then he's well on his way!
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