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Old 09-20-2011, 11:20 AM   #1
crush17
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Default Article: Broncos in rebuilding mode

Great article by Ted Bartlett

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...fever-catch-it

Long read, well worth it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:22 AM   #2
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I was thinking about posting this too. One of the best articles on the Broncos rebuild in a long while.

Best part of the article is the chart - I've always kind of seen it that way but seeing it in a logical chart makes all kinds of sense. Hopefully Tebow will eventually end up in the far left category.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:41 AM   #3
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Thanks Josh, you ****ing sucked at drafting!
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:48 AM   #4
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Thanks Josh, you ****ing sucked at drafting!
but what about the following gems?

1. McBath
2. Quinn
3. Bruton
4. Moreno
5. Olsen
6. Brandstater

corner stones!
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:52 AM   #5
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Wow, that was solid. He did a nice job of articulating the three million thought bubbles that were swirling around in my head and put them in a logical order. Highly recommend reading this!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:54 AM   #6
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Well, there were holes when McD got here, but off the top of my head I can't think of any he filled, and he created at least one very big one. Like him or not, the Frown Cannon is good enough to qb a title team, and we know the current starter is not.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:55 AM   #7
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Since I can't be bothered to make another login to random fan pages I visit once in a blue moon I will just respond here and not give 2 hoots if anyone in their right mind read it.

A number of smaller factual mistakes:

Eddie Royal is still on his rookie deal and therefore does not qualify as a veteran in the chart according to the definition set out.

Bill Belichick does not draft BPA, Belichick does what Mcdaniels tried but failed to do, he targets a number of players and assigns them a value, if he feels that there no value to be had he will trade down and if he feels he can get better than expected value he will move up. The Steelers are not known for drafting BPA either, they tend to address needs in the 1st round. Ted Thompson is notorious for drafting BPA and has done so for a long time, Newsome is also thought of us as drafting BPA over need more often than not in the 1st round.

I should be very vareful with invoking the Lions as a model franchise, I don't waiting for over 50 years to have even a small measure of success is acceptable.

One process that guarantees continuity will be disrupted is losing - no sane owner in the league (and at least 1 insane one) will put up with losing more than 10 games in consecutive seasons.


General thoughts:

There is no such thing as a rebuild in the NFL - this famed process of losing now to win later does not exist. You can accept a losing season from a coach who has taken over a clearly struggling team because nothing else can be expected, but improvement has to be noticible and quick - you simply do not have the time to sit around the bottom of the league for 3 or 4 years gathering up some high draft picks. Look at the Lombardi trophy winners, most of those teams have had 1 or 2 bad seasons to pick up some high draft talent and filled in the rest with good coaching and management.

Most young players learn nothing from being thrown to the lions and torn apart. You need a core of veterans who can coach on the field and keep continuity going, a player like Dawkins is very much part of the solution even though he may not be on the field to see the results of his work the things he does and the way he plays the game is going to benefit the young players directly. Effort, toughness and intelligence comes from veterans, not coaches.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:04 PM   #8
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ummm, I dunno. The only franchises that have been playoff contenders and still losing franchise qb's have been GB and Pitt ... and Den before shanny got canned (not saying a change wasn't in line). Pitt didn't really have a franchise qb with spittle breath until Rapesburger, but he kept retooling his D. Balt's D may have aged out this year.

OT, I'm sure Brees will get a new contract, but I could see Sean Payton having success with a guy like Colt McCoy
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:07 PM   #9
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Elway will do it on the fly....fox gets two, maybe three years tops.

And I would not be shocked if Xanders gets canned after the season.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:08 PM   #10
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excellent read, thanks for posting.

Kind of shocked to see Kuper getting the short end of the stick. I hadn't watched him closely, but if what the author says is in fact true, i HOPE Kupe can figure out a way to be a more explosive off the line type. Would love to make that line position one we didn't have to worry about down the road.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:14 PM   #11
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Elway will do it on the fly....fox gets two, maybe three years tops.

And I would not be shocked if Xanders gets canned after the season.
I would not be surprised to see the Duke as gm in LA if they get a team.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:15 PM   #12
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Well, there were holes when McD got here, but off the top of my head I can't think of any he filled, and he created at least one very big one. Like him or not, the Frown Cannon is good enough to qb a title team, and we know the current starter is not.
Actually, you've got no proof to support either statement. Orton hasn't had a championship caliber team around him and Cutler probably hasn't either, but stepped on his own #### in most of his big games thus far.

So, we don't "know" anything. Most fans around the league are unlikely to share your dreamy view of Jay, btw.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:27 PM   #13
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This guy says DJ Williams and Chris Kuper are "placeholders."

Quote:
I’m calling highly-paid guys like D.J. Williams and Chris Kuper placeholders because I don’t think that they play up to their salaries. In the case of Williams, he’ll be 31 at the end of 2013, and he’s a career underachiever. In the case of Kuper, he’s better-suited for a more movement-heavy scheme. When you're asking him to blow a guy off the line like this offense is, that’s really not his game.
also

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I almost called Champ Bailey a placeholder
First, DJ is making 4.9 mil this year. He's our most versatile linebacker. It's not like he's a huge drain on resources and is worth more on the team than in a trade. His signing bonus is off the books and his contract doesn't balloon that much the way other player's do. There are a lot of areas that need more help than LB.

Kuper is making 7 mil this year, but starting next year his salary drops to around 4.5 mil, and averages that per year the last three years. He's 28 years old. Even if you only think he's average, he's our best, most experienced offensive lineman and he's entering his prime. You have him locked up for an average salary for a solid starting guard and he wants to replace him?

And on Champ he basically concedes he could play safety but all but labels him a salary drain.

All three are "not in the Broncos future."

I'm sorry, but all three could play on any team in the league.

Soured me on the rest of the article.

Last edited by Kaylore; 09-20-2011 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:40 PM   #14
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My thoughts echo Kaylore ^^
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:40 PM   #15
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This guy says DJ Williams and Chris Kuper are "placeholders."



also



First, DJ is making 4.9 mil this year. He's our most versatile linebacker. It's not like he's a huge drain on resources and is worth more on the team than in a trade. His signing bonus is off the books and his contract doesn't balloon that much the way other player's do. There are a lot of areas that need more help than LB.



Soured me on the rest of the article.
I'm in the opposite camp after two weeks

I like Woodyard and he is also versatile and alot cheaper. When you compare the two I'd rather keep Wesly and allocate DJ money elsewhere. The drop off is not that substanial.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:45 PM   #16
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I'm in the opposite camp after two weeks

I like Woodyard and he is also versatile and alot cheaper. When you compare the two I'd rather keep Wesly and allocate DJ money elsewhere. The drop off is not that substanial.
How much has the played dropped off with WW in the line-up?

DJ is one of the most overrated Broncos (by fans) I can remember in a long time. That said, I won't mind getting him back healthy just so we have more experienced bodies available.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:48 PM   #17
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Actually, you've got no proof to support either statement. Orton hasn't had a championship caliber team around him and Cutler probably hasn't either, but stepped on his own #### in most of his big games thus far.

So, we don't "know" anything. Most fans around the league are unlikely to share your dreamy view of Jay, btw.
Rave on Mcdouchite!
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:55 PM   #18
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Actually, you've got no proof to support either statement. Orton hasn't had a championship caliber team around him and Cutler probably hasn't either, but stepped on his own #### in most of his big games thus far.

So, we don't "know" anything. Most fans around the league are unlikely to share your dreamy view of Jay, btw.
Except for the fact that he took them to the NFC Championship game last year with a similar caliber Defense and an equally bad offense, where he arguably had a significant impact in several wins throughout the season.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
This guy says DJ Williams and Chris Kuper are "placeholders."



also



First, DJ is making 4.9 mil this year. He's our most versatile linebacker. It's not like he's a huge drain on resources and is worth more on the team than in a trade. His signing bonus is off the books and his contract doesn't balloon that much the way other player's do. There are a lot of areas that need more help than LB.

Kuper is making 7 mil this year, but starting next year his salary drops to around 4.5 mil, and averages that per year the last three years. He's 28 years old. Even if you only think he's average, he's our best, most experienced offensive lineman and he's entering his prime. You have him locked up for an average salary for a solid starting guard and he wants to replace him?

And on Champ he basically concedes he could play safety but all but labels him a salary drain.

All three are "not in the Broncos future."

I'm sorry, but all three could play on any team in the league.

Soured me on the rest of the article.

Yes DJ is extremely athletic and versatile but did we really miss him with Woodyard making plenty of tackles and flowing really well to the ball, and bringing good coverage skills?

Kuper is a dominant Guard in Houston, Oakland, Washington, NYG, basically any team that favors a zone blocking system. Here, he's just an average guard.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:56 PM   #20
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How much has the played dropped off with WW in the line-up?

DJ is one of the most overrated Broncos (by fans) I can remember in a long time. That said, I won't mind getting him back healthy just so we have more experienced bodies available.
Exactly. DJ Williams is so insanely overrated its not even funny.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:58 PM   #21
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Great article by Ted Bartlett

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...fever-catch-it

Long read, well worth it.
I enjoyed the article as well.

I completely agreed that playing Orton is a great waste of time. He's completely gone next year and I've seen absolutely nothing from Orton the first two weeks that Tebow couldn't have done himself with the additional ability to churn out first downs with his running style where Orton has instead taken sacks, fumbled the ball, or thrown it away.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:03 PM   #22
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excellent read, thanks for posting.

Kind of shocked to see Kuper getting the short end of the stick. I hadn't watched him closely, but if what the author says is in fact true, i HOPE Kupe can figure out a way to be a more explosive off the line type. Would love to make that line position one we didn't have to worry about down the road.
I think we kind have known this since we changed our blocking scheme. He had injuries so the final thoughts were delayed. Ted is correct that he plays better in a moving-blocking scheme.
It is just sad that we have 3 cornerstones and it is so important that we cover DT next draft. If we keep the two left columns and most of the 3rd, our rebuilding should be complete by beginning of 2013. A Qb in place by then ready to take this team with a great supporting cast.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:03 PM   #23
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I'm in the opposite camp after two weeks

I like Woodyard and he is also versatile and alot cheaper. When you compare the two I'd rather keep Wesly and allocate DJ money elsewhere. The drop off is not that substanial.
DJ is much better in zone coverage than Woodyard is. Woodyard is fine in man coverage but really suffers when covering the zone, he also has no pass rush of any kind and no use on blitzes. The difference between the two is not pronounced in base formation when we are not blitzing, but in the nickel it is a noticible difference.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:04 PM   #24
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Only parts I disagree with

1. I only hope for high picks to bolster talent. Denver has been crappy at drafting hopefully picking high will help us do better. If we were best in the league in this area I wouldn't care how many games we win. This team have huge holes and no major skill level. Forgive me for wanting more talent across the board.

2. We are holding on the past umm do we need the past to realize what teams need to be successful in todays game. I thought watching other teams tells us.

Overall a solid article

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Old 09-20-2011, 01:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
This guy says DJ Williams and Chris Kuper are "placeholders."



also



First, DJ is making 4.9 mil this year. He's our most versatile linebacker. It's not like he's a huge drain on resources and is worth more on the team than in a trade. His signing bonus is off the books and his contract doesn't balloon that much the way other player's do. There are a lot of areas that need more help than LB.

Kuper is making 7 mil this year, but starting next year his salary drops to around 4.5 mil, and averages that per year the last three years. He's 28 years old. Even if you only think he's average, he's our best, most experienced offensive lineman and he's entering his prime. You have him locked up for an average salary for a solid starting guard and he wants to replace him?

And on Champ he basically concedes he could play safety but all but labels him a salary drain.

All three are "not in the Broncos future."

I'm sorry, but all three could play on any team in the league.

Soured me on the rest of the article.
If we're talking a two year rebuild, DJ and Kuper will be in their mid thirties and will need to be replaced not long after, if not then. Placeholders might be a bit harsh, but it seems hasty to dismiss the article because of an overzealous label, when his overall point about those players makes complete sense.
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