Twin defeats spark Democratic fears

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

http://news.yahoo.com/twin-defeats-s...095700782.html

The Democratic Party’s rare loss of a congressional seat in its urban heartland Tuesday, accompanied by a blowout defeat in a Nevada special election, marked the latest in a string of demoralizing setbacks that threatened to deepen the party’s crisis of confidence and raise concerns about President Barack Obama’s political fortunes.

In New York, Republican Bob Turner soundly defeated Democrat David Weprin in a House contest that — in the view of party leaders, at least — featured an anemic urban machine, distracted labor unions and disloyal voters. In Nevada, a consequential state for the president’s reelection strategy, Democrats suffered a runaway loss rooted in a weak showing in Reno’s Washoe County, a key bellwether.

Even before the polls closed, the recriminations — something short of panic, and considerably more than mere grumbling — had begun. On a high-level campaign conference call Tuesday afternoon, Democratic donors and strategists commiserated over their disappointment in Obama. A source on the call described the mood as “awful.”

Awful, awful, awful!

[cutthemdown]

Sometimes its better for your party to just let a guy lose. I didn't feel it was good for the repub party to put Palin anywhere near a seat of power, so I didn't vote. Dems may be feeling the same way about Obama. Just be apathetic, let repubs show they are no better, then maybe get a real progressive in office. Not someone who just wants to give money away to his union buddies and political donors.

[epicSocialism4tw]

awful mood in the DNC strategy mud holes = good future for America

Its not just a reckoning for Obama...its a reckoning for the entire progressive movement and all of their strange alliances.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw

awful mood in the DNC strategy mud holes = good future for America

Like the "good future" your hero GeeDubya bequeathed to America?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Like the "good future" your hero GeeDubya bequeathed to America?

Maybe it wasn't Bush...maybe it was the obstructionist Senate.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Originally Posted by UltimateHoboW/Shotgun

http://news.yahoo.com/twin-defeats-s...095700782.html



Awful, awful, awful!

Gee, you'd think if it was merely a matter of changing demographics, as some wishful thinkers here believe, that the mood would be upbeat and happy, considering Dems claim those demographic groups as core voters anyway.

Instead, they know they're in for a deep hurt because they oversold and underproduced their entire agenda. This is the 'Anger' phase of the stages of grief, with denial finally passing away after they got hammered in these two elections. Stay tuned for the Bargaining (stage 3) as their clown prince runs for re-election and then watch the Depression (stage 4) set in when America boots their arses out. Sadly, Dems are too poisoned to finish out with Acceptance (stage 5).

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Sometimes its better for your party to just let a guy lose. I didn't feel it was good for the repub party to put Palin anywhere near a seat of power, so I didn't vote. Dems may be feeling the same way about Obama. Just be apathetic, let repubs show they are no better, then maybe get a real progressive in office. Not someone who just wants to give money away to his union buddies and political donors.

I'm agreeing with you? I should go get my blood checked.

Yeah, Obama is pretty much a failure. I never understood why people got so caught up in the guy in the first place. All he does is give good speeches. I've been reading a great biography on Teddy Roosevelt. Comparing him to Obama's presidency has been extremely depressing. What we need now is somebody with a very large voice who can stand up to the global corporatist takeover of this world and the subjugation of, not just our own nation, but every nation on Earth. The funny thing is, TR got a whiff of this back in 1900 and realized how dangerous they were, even then. But he started fighting them and took away their power. His basic tenet was that a man who busts his ass to earn his living with the sweat of his brow deserves ten times the breaks than a guy whose money makes him money while he sleeps. That basic concept is what built America into a powerhouse.

Now, the Republicans, who are the servants of the corporations, want to take down all those fences that were first put up by TR. They want to end the estate tax, capital gains tax, etc. They want to get rid of all those regulations that raised the American worker up to a standard of living unseen before or since. They want to sell a new tenet: That we must do whatever it takes to "compete" with Asia. Of course, this means reducing the American worker to the status of an Asian worker, where there are no labor laws, no safety laws, no minimum wage, no nothing. Where the worker is considered nothing more than a drone in a hive to be used and then discarded. That's always been basic corporate-think. Why? Because that's their basic tenet: Make profit. Period. And while these corporations torch jobs all over the nation, they have sold the rubes on the idea that these are the "job creators" who should be allowed to keep every penny they make.

Since the dawn of corporations, the enemy has been labor. Now they've sold their "vision" to a bunch of poor rubes who are in fact, workers themselves. It's almost diabolically brilliant. Get some poor schmuck to believe that his interests are the same as some global billionaire and then vote against his own economic interests. Meanwhile, the financial corporations (whose basic job in a society is to capitalize industry and business) are sitting on trillions which they refuse to invest in this country. Why? Because they don't trust the economy that they are responsible for destroying and first want to see the American people start spending money they don't have before they will reinvest. Better to just sit on their piles of money, much of which they stole from taxpayers via presidential "stimulus" bills. What a ****ing racket.

Meanwhile, they can destroy the sitting president until they can replace him with a guy or girl they know will rubber-stamp their agenda right down the line.

Of course, the pathetic cowardice of the Dems has been a great enabler for this program of neo-feudalism along with the collusion of the corporate owned media who keep selling the message, "Nothing to see here. Move along. Same as it ever was. No alarm necessary."

Well, anyway. We're all along for the ride. If history is any judge, at the end of this road will be unheard of bloodshed and misery.

There is only one action that Obama could take now to restore his presidency: Indict, convict and imprison the greedy bastards that destroyed this country's economy.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I'm agreeing with you? I should go get my blood checked.

Yeah, Obama is pretty much a failure. I never understood why people got so caught up in the guy in the first place. All he does is give good speeches. I've been reading a great biography on Teddy Roosevelt. Comparing him to Obama's presidency has been extremely depressing. What we need now is somebody with a very large voice who can stand up to the global corporatist takeover of this world and the subjugation of, not just our own nation, but every nation on Earth. The funny thing is, TR got a whiff of this back in 1900 and realized how dangerous they were, even then. But he started fighting them and took away their power. His basic tenet was that a man who busts his ass to earn his living with the sweat of his brow deserves ten times the breaks than a guy whose money makes him money while he sleeps. That basic concept is what built America into a powerhouse.

Now, the Republicans, who are the servants of the corporations, want to take down all those fences that were first put up by TR. They want to end the estate tax, capital gains tax, etc. They want to get rid of all those regulations that raised the American worker up to a standard of living unseen before or since. They want to sell a new tenet: That we must do whatever it takes to "compete" with Asia. Of course, this means reducing the American worker to the status of an Asian worker, where there are no labor laws, no safety laws, no minimum wage, no nothing. Where the worker is considered nothing more than a drone in a hive to be used and then discarded. That's always been basic corporate-think. And while these corporations torch jobs all over the nation, they have sold the rubes on the idea that these are the "job creators" who should be allowed to keep every penny they make.

Since the dawn of corporations, the enemy has been labor. Now they've sold their "vision" to a bunch of poor rubes who are in fact, workers themselves. It's almost diabolically brilliant. Get some poor schmuck to believe that his interests are the same as some global billionaire and then vote against his own economic interests. Meanwhile, the financial corporations (whose basic job in a society is to capitalize industry and business) are sitting on trillions which they refuse to invest in this country. Why? Because they don't trust the economy that they are responsible for destroying and first want to see the American people start spending money they don't have before they will reinvest. Better to just sit on their piles of money, much of which they stole from taxpayers via presidential "stimulus" bills. What a ****ing racket.

Meanwhile, they can destroy the sitting president until they can replace him with a guy or girl they know will rubber-stamp their agenda right down the line.

Of course, the pathetic cowardice of the Dems has been a great enabler for this program of neo-feudalism along with the collusion of the corporate owned media who keep selling the message, "Nothing to see here. Move along. Same as it ever was. No alarm necessary."

Well, anyway. We're all along for the ride. If history is any judge, at the end of this road will be unheard of bloodshed and misery.

There is only one action that Obama could take now to restore his presidency: Indict, convict and imprison the greedy bastards that destroyed this country's economy.

Problem is though Ro~, the Dems & Repubs aren't different:

http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/th...ess-112th.html

The 50 Richest Members of Congress (2011)

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by alkemical

Problem is though Ro~, the Dems & Repubs aren't different:

http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/th...ess-112th.html

The 50 Richest Members of Congress (2011)

That's like saying a drunken wife beater and his wife are both equally responsible for her black eye.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

That's like saying a drunken wife beater and his wife are both equally responsible for her black eye.

Sorry Ro~, The dems don't care about you or me any more than the R's do.

PS. It's not rape if I say I love you.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by alkemical

Sorry Ro~, The dems don't care about you or me any more than the R's do.

PS. It's not rape if I say I love you.

Not true. The Roosevelts came from old, wealthy families. In fact, they were both, at various times, accused of being "traitors to their class." It's not the money you have, but where your heart is that makes a difference. There are a few dedicated fighters out there. Bernie Sanders, for one. And I've met and spoken with Dianna DeGette. She is a dedicated representative and cares deeply about the way things are going. So does Udall. But those dedicated few are hopelessly outnumbered.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Not true. The Roosevelts came from old, wealthy families. In fact, they were both, at various times, accused of being "traitors to their class." It's not the money you have, but where your heart is that makes a difference. There are a few dedicated fighters out there. Bernie Sanders, for one. And I've met and spoken with Dianna DeGette. She is a dedicated representative and cares deeply about the way things are going. So does Udall. But those dedicated few are hopelessly outnumbered.

A few does not make the many, or the sum of the whole. I look at actions/words. The D party does not care about you, they say they do - but they don't. Enabling, you said it yourself. They allow it to happen because they want it to. They have the same interests, themselves.

I don't see any Dems in congress turning down payraises.

[Rohirrim]

Meanwhile, here's the Republicans' new target: The Labor Relations Board.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_964253.html

Every Dem voted against it. Of course, it passed anyway.

[alkemical]

Why'd they vote against it, was it for show - or are there real vested interests?

I don't see the Dems fighting Boeing on using prison labor....

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by alkemical

Problem is though Ro~, the Dems & Repubs aren't different:

http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/th...ess-112th.html

The 50 Richest Members of Congress (2011)

part of the problem is repubs will make deals to get what they want and so will dems. In the end the compromise on most things so both sides get a lot of what they want. They are like the kids at xmas who want every toy in the store. You can't have low taxes and spend billions on wars and defense like repubs want. Then the liberals come around and want high taxes, and high govt spending. So the people pay high tax, the repubs get there way on low taxes for rich though, and then tons for defense, but then the dems still get their welfare and cheap homes for the poor through fannie may, then when the **** hits the fans we all get screwed.

Our govt is the classic we want our cake and we want to eat also.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Meanwhile, here's the Republicans' new target: The Labor Relations Board.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_964253.html

Every Dem voted against it. Of course, it passed anyway.

nothing like getting political on where Boeing can put its factory.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Every Dem voted against it. Of course, it passed anyway.

Actually, 8 Dems voted for it. 7 Repubs voted against it.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

Gee, you'd think if it was merely a matter of changing demographics, as some wishful thinkers here believe, that the mood would be upbeat and happy, considering Dems claim those demographic groups as core voters anyway.

Instead, they know they're in for a deep hurt because they oversold and underproduced their entire agenda. This is the 'Anger' phase of the stages of grief, with denial finally passing away after they got hammered in these two elections. Stay tuned for the Bargaining (stage 3) as their clown prince runs for re-election and then watch the Depression (stage 4) set in when America boots their arses out. Sadly, Dems are too poisoned to finish out with Acceptance (stage 5).

The Yahoo! article is dishonest for the following reasons:

Regarding Nevada's District:

The difference between the Republican candidate who won and the Democrat who lost was ~8 to 9 points. Which isn't a blowout. I checked out who won that district in the 2008 House Race and it was a Republican by just a few thousand votes. This was a swing district that the Democrats had recently picked up.

As for New York, that is a surprise they lost that district (3-1 voting registration edge) -- but then you have to remember it's Anthony Weiner's district, his scandal certainly didn't bode for well with anyone running with a D next to their name, and it didn't help that Weprin was not popular amongst socially conservative members of the Jewish community in that district on a variety of issues: and they are a key demographic. This race was also around ~ 8 percentage points.

Undoubtedly there is a disappointment with Obama and how things are going right now, but this article was a little misleading. It's no different than issue voting in a NY special election earlier this year that ousted an incumbent Republican. Believe it or not, there are issues that certain districts ride or die on. In a special election, this certainly seems to be the case in New York and that Nevada district seemingly (through recent electoral history) has been swing.

Kudos on actually incorporating Elisabeth Kubler-Ross's model on grieving into political discourse though.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw

Maybe it wasn't Bush...maybe it was the obstructionist Senate.

When your party controlled the WH and both chambers of Congress for most of those eight years?

Sheesh - I know you lean heavily on revisionist history to prop up your hero Dubya, but this is ridiculous!

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

When your party controlled the WH and both chambers of Congress for most of those eight years?

Sheesh - I know you lean heavily on revisionist history to prop up your hero Dubya, but this is ridiculous!

Yes. 6 out of 8 years of growth. Unemployment below 5%. Gas less than $3/gal. But those weren't not bush's accomplishments. They were congresses. But what happened in '07. Hmmmmmmmmm.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Requiem

The Yahoo! article is dishonest for the following reasons:

Regarding Nevada's District:

The difference between the Republican candidate who won and the Democrat who lost was ~8 to 9 points. Which isn't a blowout. I checked out who won that district in the 2008 House Race and it was a Republican by just a few thousand votes. This was a swing district that the Democrats had recently picked up.

The story that this goes is while it is a pretty heavy Republican Congressional area, Obama lost in this area to McCain by only 49 votes!

As for New York, that is a surprise they lost that district (3-1 voting registration edge) -- but then you have to remember it's Anthony Weiner's district, his scandal certainly didn't bode for well with anyone running with a D next to their name, and it didn't help that Weprin was not popular amongst socially conservative members of the Jewish community in that district on a variety of issues: and they are a key demographic. This race was also around ~ 8 percentage points.

I bolded the real scenario behind the Nevada election. The NY seat, any way you spin it, is a scary scene for Obama. This seat has not seen a Republican since 1920s! To have a 3-1 voting defecit and still come ahead by 8 percentage points is a massacre. This has nothing to do with Weiner ruining the person running as a Democrat. This has everything to do with Obama and DC.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by UltimateHoboW/Shotgun

Yes. 6 out of 8 years of growth. Unemployment below 5%. Gas less than $3/gal. But those weren't not bush's accomplishments. They were congresses. But what happened in '07. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Looks like somebody has been studying his right-wing revisionist history.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

>>And while these corporations torch jobs all over the nation, they have sold the rubes on the idea that these are the "job creators" who should be allowed to keep every penny they make.

Since the dawn of corporations, the enemy has been labor. Now they've sold their "vision" to a bunch of poor rubes who are in fact, workers themselves. It's almost diabolically brilliant. Get some poor schmuck to believe that his interests are the same as some global billionaire and then vote against his own economic interests. <<

Holy cow!

You just described EpicFail, UltimateDoDo, Bronx33, and the rest of the Mane's trickle-down lemmings to a 't.'

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Looks like somebody has been studying his right-wing revisionist history.

prove it.

[broncocalijohn]

BTW, we have all seen guys like LABF celebrate and laugh at the Republicans during the 2008 Presidential elections. Now, an embarrassing election has taken place in NY and he can't admit defeat and goes on the attack. When are you going to comment on what possible trouble Obama is in for 2012 or are you still in attack mode?