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Old 05-06-2018, 06:20 PM   #51
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So, at what point is the pitching considered "awful", to "bad" to "so-so" to "average" to "not so bad" to "they are actually pretty good" to "really good" to "dominant"?


And at what point in that continuum where would you consider the Rockies pitching? Relief? Starting? Overall?
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:18 PM   #52
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So, at what point is the pitching considered "awful", to "bad" to "so-so" to "average" to "not so bad" to "they are actually pretty good" to "really good" to "dominant"?


And at what point in that continuum where would you consider the Rockies pitching? Relief? Starting? Overall?
I think it's too early for anything. Rockies have historically played one way in April/May then **** changes.

Our offense is absolute dog **** compared to what it normally is and our starting pitching is over-performing.

Bettis and Ottavino have been All-Stars. Will it last?

We'll see if there's a correction.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:05 PM   #53
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Bettis and Ottavino have been All-Stars. Will it last?

We'll see if there's a correction.
A great read on Ottavino's transformation this season.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/adam...an-storefront/
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:18 PM   #54
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A great read on Ottavino's transformation this season.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/adam...an-storefront/
What sucks is we've paid all this money to Shaw and McGee and Ottavino is an FA after this year.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:57 AM   #55
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Let me correct you here.... the Coors Field Effect does NOT inflate any stats. At least, not any meaningful stats. I have stated this before and nothing will change my mind about this as 25 years of baseball in Denver will support my thinking...

The Coors Field Effect has a negative overall impact on offensive stats. Especially batting average and probably strikeouts and perhaps other offensive stat categories. Coors Field does inflate home splits, but any inflation in home stats is more than negated due to road offensive struggles. There is a real, legitimate reason for Rockies road woes. It is what I call the Altitude Adjustment Effect. Playing half of your games at 5,280 feet, with road trips mixed in throughout the season in ballparks that are typically less than 1000 feet subjects Rockies players to never-ending adjustments to pitches that break less at home than on the road. No other team in baseball has to face this handicap. The handicap is real, and in a way, it is unfair. But there is no solution to it and the reality of the situation is that this handicap will never magically go away.

So... the Rockies will forever and ever have the biggest home/road splits year in and year out, and the road splits will be deflated more than the home splits will be inflated.

I get so mad when the national media holds Coors Field against the Rockies when it comes to assessing offensive seasons, because the fact of the matter is, the Altitude Adjustment Effect has an overall more negative impact of offensive stats than any positive impact of playing home games on Coors Field.
Don't disagree with your logic and pitching in Coors Field vs. away. A litany of players both home and away teams will disagree with you on the offensive side. The defensive players and the pitching will disagree with you. The offensive historical differences will also prove itself similarly at Fenway Park and Wrigley Field, other well known hitting parks. One is affected by altitude and the ability to throw effective curves. The others affected by stadium dimensions and traditional wind directions.

ESPN does a pretty good analysis on offensive stats by ballpark year over year. Coors is always at the top. Two are very close to the top with some yearly variation. Been watching baseball games at Fenway for 53 years now. Never understood why Coors has been given such a bad rap when Fenway has had similar statistical history for many years and the number of high scoring games.
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:52 PM   #56
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Don't disagree with your logic and pitching in Coors Field vs. away. A litany of players both home and away teams will disagree with you on the offensive side. The defensive players and the pitching will disagree with you. The offensive historical differences will also prove itself similarly at Fenway Park and Wrigley Field, other well known hitting parks. One is affected by altitude and the ability to throw effective curves. The others affected by stadium dimensions and traditional wind directions.

ESPN does a pretty good analysis on offensive stats by ballpark year over year. Coors is always at the top. Two are very close to the top with some yearly variation. Been watching baseball games at Fenway for 53 years now. Never understood why Coors has been given such a bad rap when Fenway has had similar statistical history for many years and the number of high scoring games.
Not sure I am totally following what you are saying here. The defensive players and the pitching will disagree with you. I am not really making sense of that. My entire message was concerned with the Rockies hitting and how the Altitude Adjustment Effect handicaps their offensive production on the road, so much so that any inflated home splits are completely negated. I suppose it can be debated on the negative affect Altitude Adjustment has on the struggles of offensive production on the road.

I was never talking about the Rockies pitching or defense in that message, although there are altitude implications in those aspects as well. I will state that an emphasis on high quality defense is key, as having a solid strong defense will likely help out any issues the Rockies pitching has with pitching at altitude.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:23 PM   #57
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LaMahieu back in the lineup coming off the 10 day DL.

To make room, Valaika sent down.


I love this. It is showing that management will send down a highly thought of player with real upside. If he's not producing, then he's getting demoted.

This will put pressure on other struggling players that non-production will not cut it long term.

Story's .214 average and strikeout rate will not be tolerated far into the summer. Brendan Rodgers is probably ready to take Story's role.

Other players have have struggled, CarGo, Desmond, Wolters, Iannetta must be feeling pressure to pick it up, or else they might be shipped out sooner rather than later if management feels that there is another option that might provide more production.

Same goes for pitching. Produce, or get ready to be shipped out.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:54 PM   #58
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Super excited for this series, but unfortunately Grey is struggling early. Looks like Shannahan is sitting behind home plate towards the 3rd base side.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:06 PM   #59
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:52 PM   #60
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After a rough 1st inning with a high pitch count (aided by a couple of non-strike borderline calls), John Gray settles in for a masterful performance.

Gray- 7IP 0R 4H 0BB 8K 99Pitches. Wow!

Otani PH a groundout to 1st in the 7th.


Rockies take 2-0 lead into bottom 7th.

Another quality start for the Rox- 11 of last 12 or something like that? Amazing.
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:41 AM   #61
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Not sure I am totally following what you are saying here. The defensive players and the pitching will disagree with you. I am not really making sense of that. My entire message was concerned with the Rockies hitting and how the Altitude Adjustment Effect handicaps their offensive production on the road, so much so that any inflated home splits are completely negated. I suppose it can be debated on the negative affect Altitude Adjustment has on the struggles of offensive production on the road.

I was never talking about the Rockies pitching or defense in that message, although there are altitude implications in those aspects as well. I will state that an emphasis on high quality defense is key, as having a solid strong defense will likely help out any issues the Rockies pitching has with pitching at altitude.
Pitchers will tell you that the stadium/altitude does affect offensive performance. Stats are inflated at Coors which you seemed to take a difference to for whatever reason. Defensively, players will tell you how the expanse of the outfield and the carry of the ball forces them to take much deeper positions to keep the ball in front of them preventing the bigger hits. They will tell you a larger number of balls fall in front of them producing more base hits that don't happen at other ballparks. All these factors have inflated the offensive stats at Coors Field. My original argument was following this tact which you appeared to disagree with.

Traditionally, the Rockies players have had significant fall off in their offensive stats on the road. This is not a surprise with any ball club home vs. away but it certainly seems much more severe with the Rockies.

These were my only original points. I agree with your assessment of effectively throwing curve balls at altitude. The Rockies have looked traditionally for pitchers who can throw hard and low consistently and keep the walks down. This is also what other clubs look for but with the Rockies it is less about lower velocity guys who throw sliders, curveballs as their main pitches.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:30 PM   #62
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I really do believe what they said about adjusting Grey's mechanics slightly, especially in regards to his grip and how he throws his slider. He's looked totally different since working with the staff on that. His 1st pitch strikes are up, swinging strike rate is up, contact percentage is down. Things are definitely looking good for him.

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Story's .214 average and strikeout rate will not be tolerated far into the summer.
I agree that isn't nice to see the Rockies be way more proactive about sending guys down to get them right. But Story has actually been really good this year. Defensively he's been playing as expected. While his average and strikeouts need improvement, he's actually been excellent with runners on, and especially RISP. He still needs to improve overall to be a more disciplined hitter, but he has been producing when it counts. So I think he continues to play every day.

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The Rockies have looked traditionally for pitchers who can throw hard and low consistently and keep the walks down. This is also what other clubs look for but with the Rockies it is less about lower velocity guys who throw sliders, curveballs as their main pitches.
Yup, to pitch well at Coors you ideally need a plus fastball, and either a sinker or slider that you can keep down. That doesn't mean we can't have curveball or finesse pitchers, because we play 1/2 our games on the road. You just need to make sure that if you're a curveball or changeup guy that you have other options when you pitch here. Also I like that Ianetta is back because he not only knows the division, but knows how to call games at Coors
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:50 PM   #63
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Pitchers will tell you that the stadium/altitude does affect offensive performance. Stats are inflated at Coors which you seemed to take a difference to for whatever reason. Defensively, players will tell you how the expanse of the outfield and the carry of the ball forces them to take much deeper positions to keep the ball in front of them preventing the bigger hits. They will tell you a larger number of balls fall in front of them producing more base hits that don't happen at other ballparks. All these factors have inflated the offensive stats at Coors Field. My original argument was following this tact which you appeared to disagree with.

Traditionally, the Rockies players have had significant fall off in their offensive stats on the road. This is not a surprise with any ball club home vs. away but it certainly seems much more severe with the Rockies.

These were my only original points. I agree with your assessment of effectively throwing curve balls at altitude. The Rockies have looked traditionally for pitchers who can throw hard and low consistently and keep the walks down. This is also what other clubs look for but with the Rockies it is less about lower velocity guys who throw sliders, curveballs as their main pitches.
Bolded is my original point. Supported by 25 years of home/road splits, thats a pretty damn large sample size for statistical reasons.

I never disagreed that offensive stats were inflated at home. They certainly are for curve balls not curving as much and as for reasons you stated.

My whole point is that I don't think its fair for national media and other so call-ed independent minds to hold Coors Field against the Rockies when assessing offensive seasons, for the reason I bolded above, which is a negative consequence of the Altitude Adjustment Effect.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:57 AM   #64
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I think it might be time to let go of Duane Espy.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:26 AM   #65
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LaMahieu back in the lineup coming off the 10 day DL.

To make room, Valaika sent down.


I love this. It is showing that management will send down a highly thought of player with real upside. If he's not producing, then he's getting demoted.

This will put pressure on other struggling players that non-production will not cut it long term.

Story's .214 average and strikeout rate will not be tolerated far into the summer. Brendan Rodgers is probably ready to take Story's role.

Other players have have struggled, CarGo, Desmond, Wolters, Iannetta must be feeling pressure to pick it up, or else they might be shipped out sooner rather than later if management feels that there is another option that might provide more production.

Same goes for pitching. Produce, or get ready to be shipped out.

what about Desmond??!?! Does he get the dreaded DFA?? Dude is a liability and getting paid wayyyy too much. Something has to give with him, either he starts producing consistently or he is gone.
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Old 05-11-2018, 06:42 PM   #66
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what about Desmond??!?! Does he get the dreaded DFA?? Dude is a liability and getting paid wayyyy too much. Something has to give with him, either he starts producing consistently or he is gone.
He's not alone. If you're name is not Blackmon, LaMahieu, or Arenado, you are struggling.

The Rockies have 5 outfielders. Blackmon, Desmond, Parra, CarGo and Dahl. Parra is so so, Desmon and CarGo suck. Dahl is struggling as well, but he is young. Ramiel Tapia is waiting and ready and probably should switch locations with Dahl.
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:28 PM   #67
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I don't ever remember the Rockies being so ****ing horrible on offense and just all around **** at home.

We're absolute **** at home this year, which blows after having such a stellar road start.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:54 PM   #68
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Funny how right after I say all this **** the O explodes. Still, we've been **** at home all year.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:16 PM   #69
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Funny how right after I say all this **** the O explodes. Still, we've been **** at home all year.
Aaaaand its a one run game... bloody hell.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:48 PM   #70
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:00 PM   #71
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This is the kind of loss it's tough to recover from.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:24 PM   #72
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This is the kind of loss it's tough to recover from.
Yeah, it is.

Usually, at the conclusion of every season for every team, you can look back at all the games played and there are always a couple of games that stick out that you think that there is no way you should have lost. Even teams that go on to win World Series' lose a couple of games during the course of the year like this.

However.... the Rockies are in one of those typical franchise team slumps, and they finally break out of it... only to have their strength of their team blow it for them.

We will see if this team recovers. I think they will, but their offense can't just go and disappear like they did after that 11-2 win in Chicago a couple weeks ago.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:42 PM   #73
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I just sat through that BS. Freezing cold. And to top it off, we almost got into a fight with some a-holes who were mad that we were standing up in the bottom of the 9th.

I’m going to try and forget the whole debacle of an evening ever happened.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:33 AM   #74
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Bolded is my original point. Supported by 25 years of home/road splits, thats a pretty damn large sample size for statistical reasons.

I never disagreed that offensive stats were inflated at home. They certainly are for curve balls not curving as much and as for reasons you stated.

My whole point is that I don't think its fair for national media and other so call-ed independent minds to hold Coors Field against the Rockies when assessing offensive seasons, for the reason I bolded above, which is a negative consequence of the Altitude Adjustment Effect.
Um, no. I could see it having a negative effect on park-adjusted stats like OPS+ and oWAR, because the players actually become worse offensively, as you say. But playing in Colorado will always raise a player's non-adjusted stats, even if their road numbers go down.

I just read somewhere that like 9 of the last 20 batting titles went to Rockies players (not that batting average is meaningful at all). But I'm sure the same is true for OPS as well.
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:25 AM   #75
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I just sat through that BS. Freezing cold. And to top it off, we almost got into a fight with some a-holes who were mad that we were standing up in the bottom of the 9th.

Iím going to try and forget the whole debacle of an evening ever happened.
Strike First, Dom.

You going tonight also?
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