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Old 11-14-2018, 04:25 PM   #101
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Another issue is some forests do not allow people to remove dead wood based on environmental studies. Last I checked they won't let us do it here in Colorado, but it varies from forest to forest. People will literally go into these forests and yank out fire wood.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:31 PM   #102
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Another issue is some forests do not allow people to remove dead wood based on environmental studies. Last I checked they won't let us do it here in Colorado, but it varies from forest to forest. People will literally go into these forests and yank out fire wood.
Forests are replenished from rotting material on the forest floor. If you remove it all, the forest starves.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:02 PM   #103
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Forests are replenished from rotting material on the forest floor. If you remove it all, the forest starves.
Correction. SOME forests are replenished from rotting material on the forest floor.

That's very true of the coastal forests from California to Alaska. Things are very different in our dry western forests -- where down woody material, duff etc decomposes very slowly if at all --

Low intensity ground fire in these forests replaced decomposition under mother Nature's historic fire regime. One of the beneficial results of frequent low intensity underburns was to release nutrients...

It is essential to distinguish between the wet coastal forests (and the wet inland forests of Idaho and Montana) from the drier forests. They are very different.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:30 PM   #104
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:31 PM   #105
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Correction. SOME forests are replenished from rotting material on the forest floor.

That's very true of the coastal forests from California to Alaska. Things are very different in our dry western forests -- where down woody material, duff etc decomposes very slowly if at all --

Low intensity ground fire in these forests replaced decomposition under mother Nature's historic fire regime. One of the beneficial results of frequent low intensity underburns was to release nutrients...

It is essential to distinguish between the wet coastal forests (and the wet inland forests of Idaho and Montana) from the drier forests. They are very different.
All. Some just require fire to release the nutrients. Others rely on organisms.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:23 PM   #106
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All. Some just require fire to release the nutrients. Others rely on organisms.
The problem is that fire has been excluded artificially from forests where it historically played an absolutely critical role.

Fire not only released nutrients. Frequent low intensity fire was Nature's paint brush -- her thinning agent. Conifers have an incredible capacity to reseed tens of thousands of tiny seedlings on a small plot of ground -- far more trees than dry sites can support. On these forests the availability of water is the limiting factor -- whereas on the wet coastal forests light is the limiting factor.

Low intensity fire removed (killed) most seedlings and brush -- thus limiting plant succession -- and the result was open park like forests.

The presence of fire was critical to this structure of dry western forests.

White people think fire is bad -- but that is our own false preconceptions talking. Exclude fire and ground fuels build up and up -- to a point that is scary. This is why many western forests are now a tinder box. Unlike on the wet forests, conifer needles don't decompose -- they build up.

I have seen sites with layer of pine needles a foot and a half deep. Reintroduction of fire is the only solution -- but it is not easy to accomplish.

There are many social barriers to use of prescribed fire. Some environmentalists now believe it contributes to climate change -- but this is incorrect -- because if we don't use low intensity fire to fire proof dry western forests - - they will burn in a catastrophic manner -- releasing even more C02 -- indeed much more than is released by underburning.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:58 AM   #107
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One of the best books I've read in a while:


https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Life-T.../dp/1771642483
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:11 AM   #108
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One of the best books I've read in a while:


https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Life-T.../dp/1771642483
Just ordered it. Looks interesting.

I'm truly fascinated by trees. I'm working on a couple of tree farm projects of my own.

I can promise you. Slight variations in rainfall from year to year aren't enough to create match sticks out of trees. The under growth which Gaffney talked about is the difference of how trees react with fire.

The reality is mother nature is saying it's time to burn the fuel. What should be small fires that could easily be put out are becoming 100,000 acres for a reason.

No coincidences......
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:19 AM   #109
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The man to read is Chris Maser, one of our top forest ecologists.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:51 PM   #110
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Official death toll for Camp Fire is 63 with 631 still missing. Brutal. You wont see it on the news since their motive is to divide the sheeple but there are a lot of acts of kindness going on in n. Cali for people displaced and affected by that fire.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:10 PM   #111
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Schools all over the Bay Area are cancelled tomorrow due to smoke.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:06 AM   #112
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This is sizing up to be one of the greatest tragedies in American history. There may be hundreds dead. I shudder to think what will happen when the conditions in California shift North and begin to have the same effect on the coniferous rain forests of BC. The beetle kill up there is already staggering.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:17 AM   #113
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:34 AM   #114
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Official death toll for Camp Fire is 63 with 631 still missing. Brutal. You wont see it on the news since their motive is to divide the sheeple but there are a lot of acts of kindness going on in n. Cali for people displaced and affected by that fire.
L0L.

"You won't see it on the news?"

Whose "news" are you watching?

(Wait...no need to answer.)
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:08 AM   #115
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L0L.

"You won't see it on the news?"

Whose "news" are you watching?

(Wait...no need to answer.)
He just told you...the one "dividing the sheeple".
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:37 PM   #116
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Air quality in SF was the worst in the world yesterday, worse than New Delhi, Lahore, Beijing, or anywhere else. Just horrible.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #117
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My friend in Berkeley told me that many people in the Bay Area were wearing masks.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #118
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It’s even worse today. Schools closed, people wearing masks. I was outside for 5 mins and my lungs were trash.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:41 PM   #119
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Climate change is probably something we should find ways to combat.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:43 PM   #120
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Climate change is probably something we should find ways to combat.
Nah, we should just do a better job of picking up sticks on the ground.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:01 PM   #121
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Default smoke in SF Bay Area - five days ago.

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Old 11-16-2018, 08:02 PM   #122
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71 confirmed dead and 1000+ missing
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