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Old 11-12-2018, 07:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I'm lost?

You're talking about invading Russia, but calling it "Sorties" or something. We're not flying "sorties" into Russia. We're not going to war with Russia. This talk is super kooky.
Taco and you others without reason or history lessons . The reason troops are still in Europe and that they were put there in the first place ( after the actual occupation was basically over) was to curtail any thoughts by Russia of moving into Europe any further than they did after WWII. They aggressively expanded into Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, etc at the end of that conflict. They surpressed democracy there. The troops and NATO were placed to make Russia think twice...if they attacked Europe they would also be attacking the USA and that would mean WWIII. It worked!


The collapse of the Soviet union seemed to ease some of that threat, but the Putin regime and the expansion of NATO has brought those threats back to the Fore. Russia claims to be threatened by NATO but in reality it has been the fact that the Russian economy is garbage compared to the western economies it has to compete with. So Putin is trying to destabilise those countries and weaken them. Trumps solution seems to be to withdraw from NATO and pretty much let Europe take on Russia alone. He wants to speed up NATOs military build up so he can withdraw from Europe. And he wants to do it before 2020.

Due to the massive military forces that Russia still has left from the Soviet era that would be very foolish. But of course Trump IS a FOOL. So he is doing what will promote another eventual war.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:17 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by ScottXray View Post
Taco and you others without reason or history lessons . The reason troops are still in Europe and that they were put there in the first place ( after the actual occupation was basically over) was to curtail any thoughts by Russia of moving into Europe any further than they did after WWII. They aggressively expanded into Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, etc at the end of that conflict. They surpressed democracy there. The troops and NATO were placed to make Russia think twice...if they attacked Europe they would also be attacking the USA and that would mean WWIII. It worked!


The collapse of the Soviet union seemed to ease some of that threat, but the Putin regime and the expansion of NATO has brought those threats back to the Fore. Russia claims to be threatened by NATO but in reality it has been the fact that the Russian economy is garbage compared to the western economies it has to compete with. So Putin is trying to destabilise those countries and weaken them. Trumps solution seems to be to withdraw from NATO and pretty much let Europe take on Russia alone. He wants to speed up NATOs military build up so he can withdraw from Europe. And he wants to do it before 2020.

Due to the massive military forces that Russia still has left from the Soviet era that would be very foolish. But of course Trump IS a FOOL. So he is doing what will promote another eventual war.
These idiots only pretend not to understand something this basic. Itís a game of denial and feigned ignorance. Most people would be embarrassed to play the fool like this. For them itís some kind of weird strategy that they think saves face and keeps them from having to admit the disaster theyíve brought upon the country.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:22 AM   #78
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And to be clear in the explanation above, “expansion of NATO” involved former eastern bloc countries and others that met criteria requesting to join to provide a credible deterrent to further Soviet expansion. Putin has been clear that he thinks Gorbachev’s breaking up of the USSR was a mistake, so he’d love to put it back together again e.g. Crimean Peninsula. NATO and economics help prevent that.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:32 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
These idiots only pretend not to understand something this basic. Itís a game of denial and feigned ignorance. Most people would be embarrassed to play the fool like this. For them itís some kind of weird strategy that they think saves face and keeps them from having to admit the disaster theyíve brought upon the country.
I disagree with you. I donít think it is feigned ignorance. Itís a completely different utopian view of the world where everyone plays by the same rules and no ones choices impinge on anyone elseís. There is no interdependence of events, things that occur that affect other things that affect people. Pretty sure the idea is build a wall around America and be as self sustaining as possible.

In thier view we are the problem because we donít understand that.

Last edited by ghwk; 11-12-2018 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:04 AM   #80
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you guys basically argue against yourselves.



one day its "cut the military budget for social security"


the next its "we need troops spread across europe to defend against the russian invasion".



lmao
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:11 AM   #81
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:13 AM   #82
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50,000 troops in Europe is a bargain in costs to prevent a war there. That war, if it happened, would devastate the economies of the entire world as well as possibly result in a nuclear war. Because idiots or a mistake could think it would be a good and only tactical problem of short duration. Any use of those weapons anywhere will result in catastrophic results the world over. The results would be revenge taking place and then more and more.
It is human nature....

But an attack on the US troops there that might initiate a US nuclear response is why we have NOT had that war yet!


I served in Korea in 1970 and we had nukes on our air defense missiles then. We had 16 nike herc missiles and 8 had 2 megaton warheads. Supposedly they could take out a bomber fleet , but their real purpose was for surface to surface delivery....against any force that seized any of our other NIKE sites ( including South Koreans). Supposedly we would revert to an infantry company after using all our missiles.... yet we never had more than 2 days of rations on site...because they knew we would never last more than that amount of time before we got nuked ourselves. We had C rations for 4 days and they were 30 years old.

A nuclear exchange of any kind will have the same results and civilians and infrastructure would be the prime targets. No standing army is going to want to get into a fight if they don't know if their family or hometown still exists. And an icbm missile defense is a pipe dream and always will be... Simply a waste of taxpayer money to keep defense companies profits high.


Trumps statements and complaints about Nato and our allies are reason enough for Macron to suggest that NATO does need to get to 2% because they can't trust the US with Trump in the presidency. But they don't need to do so on Trumps schedule.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:35 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneSpicoli
you guys basically argue against yourselves.



one day its "cut the military budget for social security"


the next its "we need troops spread across europe to defend against the russian invasion".



lmao
Or perhaps the problem is that you really have no clue what you're talking about.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:51 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghwk View Post
I disagree with you. I donít think it is feigned ignorance. Itís a completely different utopian view of the world where everyone plays by the same rules and no ones choices impinge on anyone elseís. There is no interdependence of events, things that occur that affect other things that affect people. Pretty sure the idea is build a wall around America and be as self sustaining as possible.

In thier view we are the problem because we donít understand that.
Oh I fully understand that some of them are entirely inside a bubble where they have no clue and ignorance is their primary defining quality. But you do realize that before these people were shilling for Rump, most of them were supporting standard GOP positions just like the US presence in Europe. They didnít suddenly forget that when Bone Spurs came along.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:50 PM   #85
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Trump tweets on France the 13th November the day of Bataclan three years ago... Classy...
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