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Old 02-10-2014, 08:46 PM   #201
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I think it's a choice otherwise you wouldn't have homosexuality in prisons, that is, guys who claim to be straight, but while in prison, choose to have sex with other men (some get raped against their wishes) Or, how do you explain the male porno star who claims he's straight, but he makes homosexual pornos?

This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this because I've already got one neg rep on the subject. Bisexuality totally negates your argument IMHO as does the prison system in which homosexuality happens by "straight" guys, as does the porno stars who claim that when not on camera, they are straight.
I cannot believe how dumb you are.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:50 PM   #202
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I cannot believe how dumb you are.
likewise
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:53 PM   #203
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Best research says 3 to 8 percent of American men are gay (sorry Tombstone) ... that means right now we got 120 friends of Dorothy suiting up every Sunday. .
Wow that's two 53-man rosters, I pretty sure one team would be the Chiefs and maybe the Patriots as the other.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:53 PM   #204
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Our society has come a long way on this issue ... example: Three months ago we elected a new mayor in Seattle. I followed the campaign, watched a debate or two ... and voted for Ed Murray. And Ed Murray won ... yay!

Fast forward to first week in January, and it's the swearing-in ceremony ... and ... who is that guy with him? Damn, they're sitting awful close, what the... Yup, Murray is gay. He was openly gay all along, I just never realized. That's real progress I think.


Tombstone, check this out:
. . .
January 6, 2014 (Seattle) - Newly elected Seattle mayor Ed Murray (left)
takes the oath of office, as husband Michael Shiosaki (center) looks on.



This is Kshama Sawant, newly elected to Seattle City Council.
Born and raised in India, and a member of the SOCIALIST party,
Sawant promises to be relentless in her quest to bring a $15
minimum wage to the City of Seattle.

Me, I'm as liberal as a Massachusetts lesbian, but at $9.62 an hour, Washington has the highest minimum wage in the country now. If we pump it up like that, let's do it a dollar a year ... ease into it.

Tombstone, you'd love this town. If it weren't for their football team it'd be the best. You consider retiring here

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Old 02-10-2014, 08:59 PM   #205
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This is probably the lawyer in me talking, but don't call him "First" just yet. That title means something, it's a big deal. And it's more than just football, he'll be the first openly gay player in any team sport (NBA's Collins hasn't played in a game since announcing).

Best research says 3 to 8 percent of American men are gay (sorry Tombstone) ... that means right now we got 120 friends of Dorothy suiting up every Sunday. Any one of them can call a press conference tomorrow, and BOOM! Suck it, rookie! (no pun intended). ... Now HE gets a phone call from the President, HE'S the answer to a Jeopardy! question, HE'S the guest star oin sitcoms, the guy in PSA commercials, HE has a lifetime of invites to be grand marshal of parades from Greenwich Village to Key West to West Hollywood to San Francisco. That's worth jumping in front of this kid.
some research says 3 to 8 percent, some research says less than that. But really, that's a huge discrepancy to say 3 to 8 percent. At the very least, I think it shows that the research is questionable.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #206
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I think it is funny you have a gay man telling you point blank he never made the decision to like men and you still argue the point.

It's a matter of attraction. I know for a fact I never selected to be attracted to men. I just was. I know for a fact you never selected to be attracted to women. You just were. I dont think bisexuality weakens the case that we are attracted to what we are attracted to before we are even conscious of it. As you stated, the choice is to pursue what we find attractive. That is the only choice, not what we like in the first place. Some people prefer both. Which I think is greedy, but whatever floats their boat.

My cousin is gay and it was evident that he was going to be gay from the time he was about 6 or 7 years old. He had no choice in the matter....I don't get it when people argue that it's a choice. He grew up and was attracted to the other boys his age growing up and then men when he was an adult. No different that it being hard wired for me to like girls when I was younger and then women. But there wasn't a single doubt in anyone's mind that my cousin was going to be gay....he was born that way. I don't get why come people don't understand that. It's no different inherently than being a straight dude and liking women.

As for the argument about dudes in prison having sex, bi-sexual dudes, etc....everyone's different and some dudes will literally stick their ***** in anything that moves. Lot of strange behavior that isn't easy to explain. Some behaviors simply can't be categorized as anything other than strange or deviant and are neither straight or gay. Some folks get down on their luck and do things they don't want to do for drugs or money, but that doesn't mean they are attracted or want to do it, but do out of desperation. There are a lot of odd behaviors that are hard to categorize or explain.

I don't get the argument that being gay is a choice for the majority of gay people....I'm sure there are exceptions and situations that prevent it from being absolutely 100% true....but the majority of people that are gay are simply born that way....no different than how I was born and was attracted to females.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:22 PM   #207
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FIRST openly gay player?

Not sure how he could be the first when the whole just witnessed the entire Broncos team come out in the Super Bowl.
Actually, I'd classify Denver's performance as more effeminate than openly gay.

Some gay dudes are tough....Denver's performance was effeminate.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:34 PM   #208
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I think it's a choice otherwise you wouldn't have homosexuality in prisons, that is, guys who claim to be straight, but while in prison, choose to have sex with other men (some get raped against their wishes) Or, how do you explain the male porno star who claims he's straight, but he makes homosexual pornos?

This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this because I've already got one neg rep on the subject. Bisexuality totally negates your argument IMHO as does the prison system in which homosexuality happens by "straight" guys, as does the porno stars who claim that when not on camera, they are straight.

You realize rape in prison is never about sex? It's about power and dominance. It has nothing to do with orientation. And male porn stars who do gay porn are known as "gay for pay". They are doing something they do not want to do in exchange for money. That is not even an acceptable defense, Tombstone. Oh, some male pornstars **** dudes. It's a choice. Do you think he WANTS to have sex with men? Or is there something else influencing his decision? If he had a dude on one hand, and a woman on the other and this pornstar is allegedly straight, would he even consider the man if there were no extenuating circumstances? Which again...has nothing to do with his orientation.

Bisexuality is not a red herring and does not make your case for you. Some people are into both sexes. Some people dont like either sex. Some people prefer the same sex. It does not suddenly change the fact that I never made the choice to want men. Which is me telling you that for the 1000th time.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:35 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
I think it's a choice otherwise you wouldn't have homosexuality in prisons, that is, guys who claim to be straight, but while in prison, choose to have sex with other men (some get raped against their wishes) Or, how do you explain the male porno star who claims he's straight, but he makes homosexual pornos?

This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this because I've already got one neg rep on the subject. Bisexuality totally negates your argument IMHO as does the prison system in which homosexuality happens by "straight" guys, as does the porno stars who claim that when not on camera, they are straight.
I cannot believe how dumb you are.
Laughed out loud.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:25 PM   #210
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Shades of Gay

1. I dated an woman for 3 years in college who was molested by her father in her early teens. She dated men throughout high school, dated me in college, went through a few more somewhat abusive relationships, experimented a little in the LGBT world, then moved in with a woman in her late 20's and has been with her ever since. Born gay? Not hardly.

2. Shortly after I first met my fiancee, she said she would be open to a ménage-a-trois with a woman, and claimed she "kissed" women before. We've been happy together for 4 years. Born gay? Nope.

3. I've known quite a few flaming older gay guys who I could never imagine being heterosexual. They don't have a straight bone in their body. Born gay? Yes, I would bet my britches on it.

4. Half my little sister's middle school class claims they are gay or bi, because it seems to be in style now at their school. I would be surprised if more than a couple turned out to be gay as adults.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:35 PM   #211
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The only thing you've proved there is that you were born dense.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:45 AM   #212
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The LBGT community needs more heterosexuals telling them about homosexuality. If anyone knew about being gay, its gotta be straight people.

Lol.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:53 AM   #213
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There is a segment of the LBGT community that feels without societal pressure, more people will be actively gay, and that they are a growing demographic. While that is not exactly the point tombstone is making, I find it an oddly bizarre point of view.

But then again, I have read the rad fems belief that ALL PiV encounters are rape...so there are a lot of different mind sets out there that I find...interesting.

I have no idea if he is any good, dont watch much college ball, but a projected 4/5 rounder is hardly a lock to have a long NFL career. I just hope if he, ahem, flames out, that it isnt turned into a news story about how closed the doors to the NFL are due to intollerance, not the limited number of jobs available at the highest level of the sport.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:34 AM   #214
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lol @ people thinking being gay or bisexual is a choice.

In America, especially in the conservative states, you think anyone would CHOOSE to be gay? Who WANTS to be gay? Like HEY, I just feel like rubbing some other guys dick today because you know, it's my choice of pleasure. I CHOOSE to be attracted to penis and CHOOSE NOT to be attracted to vagina. How can you **** heads even think this is possible at a young age?

If you can, that's called bisexuality.

Only idiots argue this as a choice. I mean during slavery, I'm pretty sure you'd say black people chose to be black too. That's about the same damn thing you're telling me about gay being a choice.

If it were a choice, are you telling me there was some point in time you were attracted to males but decided not to be?

The "gay = choice" people tend to all come from the same close minded crowd.

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Old 02-11-2014, 02:40 AM   #215
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Or, how do you explain the male porno star who claims he's straight, but he makes homosexual pornos?
You do realize these guys have something called an INCENTIVE to make these pornos right?

Look up the word acting and viagra and you can pretty much connect the dots if you have 25% brain mass of a normal adult.

Just because a janitor cleans **** doesn't mean he likes the smell of ****.

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Old 02-11-2014, 03:35 AM   #216
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I have to more or less commend you guys on a pretty interesting discussion. Fundamentally, my view on this particular player is this, I think the move was smart on his part to put the information out there now. It difuses it before it's an issue. Will it impact his draft status, probably, at least partly because of the media circus it could possibly bring, but to be honest I still think it's not going to be nearly the issue Tebow was. That guy was polarizing on a whole different level.

If Sam does the rounds now and then says, I've told you all there is, let's talk about how I play it will eventually fade. The only way for the gay thing to stop being an issue is to talk to it directly and move on. Eventually we will stop talking about it and even if it was 4 years like with Tim, in the scheme of societal change, that's not that long.

As for sexuality choice debate going on here, nothing people have said is surprising and this debate will continue to on. For the most part I do not think people choose who they are attracted to, I think that's more complicated then choosing your clothes, your church, your friends. Nobody in this debate will ever convince the diehards on either side of it, but for my view I don't believe it's a choice in most cases. Are there exceptions, yes, but I think as in most things the exceptions prove the rule.

most gay people I know do not choose to be gay because they were raped or in prison and raped or molested. Many of them, yes dated the opposite sex in order to fit in to a societal norm, not necessarily because they really were attracted to them. Some people faked marriages because politically to be gay was suicide at one time, though being from Arizona we had one of the first openly gay Congressman there though even he played straight in the beginning.

If I had a choice, sometimes with my ****ty dating experiences I wish I could go lesbian, at least I get why women are crazy, men baffle me, but I can't seem to stop being attracted to them.

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Old 02-11-2014, 03:51 AM   #217
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Bisexuality is not a red herring and does not make your case for you. Some people are into both sexes. Some people dont like either sex. Some people prefer the same sex. It does not suddenly change the fact that I never made the choice to want men. Which is me telling you that for the 1000th time.

You can tell extremists this 10000000000 times and a million different ways from 10 million different people, their perspective is stuck like constipation.

Kind of like Tebow, Peyton Hillis, and Mike Shanahan fans. No matter how many times it gets proven, no matter how many times we tell them, no matter how many times the evidence gets proven time and time again...they shall never believe you that they suck.

You simply can't be a straight man and say that being gay is a choice...because that would simply imply that you made that choice in some point in time, which means you are either gay or bisexual....thus claiming that you're able to be sexually AND emotionally attached to the same sex.

And if this isn't the case, you're just a ****ing moron that needs to catch up to 2014.

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Old 02-11-2014, 03:59 AM   #218
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4. Half my little sister's middle school class claims they are gay or bi, because it seems to be in style now at their school. I would be surprised if more than a couple turned out to be gay as adults.
More popular amongst girls than guys from what I've seen. Wouldn't be surprised if it became a trend with some guys these days.

When it comes down to it though...those people who claim they're gay and really not, as they get older...aren't going to like a male butt hole if they get to experience a womans vagina (+ butthole)...and they're not going to like a mans 5 oclock shadow rubbing on them sexually vs a smooth woman.

No way around that ****.

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Old 02-11-2014, 06:14 AM   #219
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The only thing you've proved there is that you were born dense.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:40 AM   #220
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In other news I feel sad for the 1 male us olympian figure skater that came out of the closet as straight. In a sport teaming with queers he bucks the trend and actually wants to plow his female partner. All of the glitter, rhinestones, and frills won't cover up his chub while holding his partner in her unmentionables.

He's for sure due to be outcast and under judged in his scores from here out.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:22 AM   #221
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I haven't read through this thread, but I'm sure somebody brought it up. I think Sam is going to make a lot of money off of this. I'm not saying that his motivation was based on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with this announcement.

More power to him with his lifestyle, but I don't see the need to come out and announce this. He can live his lifestyle without announcing this to the public. He's the first publicly known gay player, but I bet NFL players know who is gay. I'm sure that there have been NFL players who have lived a gay lifestyle without going out of their way to hide it.

Maybe Sam wants to be the face of this. Maybe he wants to be a role model or something. Maybe he knows where he's projected to being drafted, knows that the average NFL career is very short, and knows that his earning potential is not as great as most people would think it is.

I don't know what his motives are, and I'm not accusing him of doing this for financial gain, but this dude is about to get paid.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:22 AM   #222
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at least I get why women are crazy
Please start this thread.

Should make the offseason go much quicker.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:27 AM   #223
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I haven't read through this thread, but I'm sure somebody brought it up. I think Sam is going to make a lot of money off of this. I'm not saying that his motivation was based on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with this announcement.

More power to him with his lifestyle, but I don't see the need to come out and announce this. He can live his lifestyle without announcing this to the public. He's the first publicly known gay player, but I bet NFL players know who is gay. I'm sure that there have been NFL players who have lived a gay lifestyle without going out of their way to hide it.

Maybe Sam wants to be the face of this. Maybe he wants to be a role model or something. Maybe he knows where he's projected to being drafted, knows that the average NFL career is very short, and knows that his earning potential is not as great as most people would think it is.

I don't know what his motives are, and I'm not accusing him of doing this for financial gain, but this dude is about to get paid.
Read the article I posted yesterday about how his agency and media team is massaging this whole thing. As a GM this is exactly what you don't want in your locker room. A player whose first focus is drama and if you're lucky maybe football comes in a distant second.

As far as it being nothing like Tebow.... saw on the ESPN crawl last night the First Lady's (among others) tweet reaction to his big announcement. At least as much hype as Tebow pre-draft. I'd say possibly even more.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:39 AM   #224
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Once you can realize it isn't normal but it can still be accepted is the way to go. Trying to push something that very few people do in life is not considered normal.
What I dont get is why people who are openly gay are constantly viewed as trying to push their lifestyle on other people. Why aren't you viewed as trying to push your "left-handed" lifestyle?
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:50 AM   #225
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Homosexuality is normal, so normal that gay people have risked certain persecution and death just to live honestly about themselves. It occurs in every culture today and through out human history, and will continue so. Refusing in believing that gay is natural and normal is like believing left handedness or red heads are not normal. This our modern version in believing that blacks are 3/5 human. LGBT community deserve our full and equal rights

Ignorance is not defense
This is just a guess but if a young married couple could pick the sex of their unborn child and the also had the option to pick a gay or straight. I bet they would probably go for the straight child 99.9% of the time. Gay is becoming an accepted lifestyle but certainly not a normal lifestyle.
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