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Old 09-24-2018, 02:30 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jason in LA View Post
I'm not about to dump all the blame on Musgrave, but I do find it interesting that he's never really caught heat for the problems that the Broncos have had. Every other coach has.
Musgrave has a proven track record as at least being decent, and is currently saddled with a dog **** QB. Woods and VJ have no track record and just plain suck.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:12 AM   #52
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You know this...how?
Maybe I was mistaken about what Jason meant. If so, apologies to him. I know I wasn't wrong about what you were getting at. And yes, I'm sure you're right that certain posters want these guys to fail because of their skin color, which is a shame. I think that the vast majority are just disappointed with the results on the field. Yesterday was especially bad for the coaching staff, all the way around.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:15 AM   #53
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Expecting Woods, who has been coaching in the NFL about 30 years less than Wade Phillips, to be as good as him, is a bit unrealistic, to say the least. The writer makes a good point here.

This developing consensus opinion that ignores Woods' work the last three seasons here in favor of weighting the discussion on the last 3 games and draws the conclusion that he sucks is pretty stupid, no matter what the motivation for arriving at that idea, ergo...the suspicion that something else might be in play at times. Woods is working with a different set of players than he had before, an obvious yet rarely mentioned factor in the style of play he's adopted. Fans, of course, would like to see what they think works, and most probably think they know more than the coaches do about whether the talent fits the scheme or not.

Denver is another year from having the right talent mix on defense IMO, and Woods should be here to see what he does by then.
I love the dichotomy of admitting Woods should not be expected to be as good as the guy he replaced (in a Front Office budget move) but should also be above criticism.

That said, I blame VJ more than anything. This team's character reeked last year, seemingly out of nowhere, and this game seems eerily similar to last year's 2-0 Buffalo unraveling.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:29 AM   #54
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Subtly pulling the race card here, I see...GTFO.

Musgrave has caught plenty of heat on here today. And people don't hate on Woods and Radio because they are black. It's because they suck at coaching football at the professional level.
Actually, I'm not. I'm not at all. You just connected dots that didn't need to be connected, because I wasn't hinting at race at all.

Kubiak and McCoy took a ton of heat, and I pointed out many times that the larger problem was a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball, not the coaching. I think that Kubiak is a great coach that was saddled with subpar QBs. And he got roasted here. I thought that he was unfairly killed around here. I'm not about to ride with McCoy. While he also dealt with terrible QBs and O line play, I didn't care for him. But Musgrave has gotten a pass for the most part.

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Maybe I was mistaken about what Jason meant. If so, apologies to him.
We're good.

Last edited by Jason in LA; 09-24-2018 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:42 AM   #55
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Musgrave has a proven track record as at least being decent, and is currently saddled with a dog **** QB. Woods and VJ have no track record and just plain suck.
Seems like he had one big year with Carr, and for whatever reason the Raiders got rid of him. I'm not going to blame that on Musgrave, because the Raiders always do stupid ****. But outside of that one big year, what has Musgrave done as an OC?

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/MusgBi0.htm
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:04 AM   #56
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VJ and Woods getting lumped together in the critique of the team is something done in here routinely, while Musgrave is rarely mentioned in that analysis despite less than stellar results so far. Lost in this, is also the fact that Woods coached the No Fly Zone to back-to-back performances as the top pass defense in the league, followed up by a pretty good overall defense last year in his first season as a DC despite getting almost no help from the offensive side of the ball. He also had a fairly strong track record before he came here. Mike Tomlin and Wade Phillips...two guys who know a thing or two...brought him on board. All this makes the idea that he's an imbecile pretty far-fetched. Talib commented on how he coached in place of Wade...and this made for some good water cooler discussion but this is a good commentary on the reasons for their different styles:

https://milehighsports.com/aqib-tali...s-illustrated/

Expecting Woods, who has been coaching in the NFL about 30 years less than Wade Phillips, to be as good as him, is a bit unrealistic, to say the least. The writer makes a good point here.

This developing consensus opinion that ignores Woods' work the last three seasons here in favor of weighting the discussion on the last 3 games and draws the conclusion that he sucks is pretty stupid, no matter what the motivation for arriving at that idea, ergo...the suspicion that something else might be in play at times. Woods is working with a different set of players than he had before, an obvious yet rarely mentioned factor in the style of play he's adopted. Fans, of course, would like to see what they think works, and most probably think they know more than the coaches do about whether the talent fits the scheme or not.

Denver is another year from having the right talent mix on defense IMO, and Woods should be here to see what he does by then.
Woods is the DC and VJ works closely with the defense, and has a background in defense. Plus, his team's seem to be unprepared all around.

For me it has to do with their performance. I haven't seen that level of ineptitude from Musgrave as of yet.

I can't tell what is in anyone's heart, but I didn't feel Jason was pulling the race card here.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jason in LA View Post
Seems like he had one big year with Carr, and for whatever reason the Raiders got rid of him. I'm not going to blame that on Musgrave, because the Raiders always do stupid ****. But outside of that one big year, what has Musgrave done as an OC?

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/MusgBi0.htm
He helped turn David Garrard (a former 4th round pick) into a quality pro QB, for one thing. Carr was a 2nd round pick who has fallen off a cliff without Musgrave. He was Matt Ryan's QB coach is first few seasons. He hasn't necessarily had a bunch of top five offenses, but he also hasn't usually been on teams stacked with offensive talent either. I think, all things considered, he has a pretty solid resume.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:23 PM   #58
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Itís 2nd and 3rd and 1. Time huge factor. Right at the goal line.

Running plays donít work? Time still runs.

Passing play doesnít work time stops.

That moment isnít the time to try and manage the game passively.
Touche~
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:25 PM   #59
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how much did losing lindsey impact our play calling?
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:04 PM   #60
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Woods is the DC and VJ works closely with the defense, and has a background in defense. Plus, his team's seem to be unprepared all around.

For me it has to do with their performance. I haven't seen that level of ineptitude from Musgrave as of yet.

I can't tell what is in anyone's heart, but I didn't feel Jason was pulling the race card here.
We also haven't seen anything successfully from Musgrave yet, since he just got here. On that topic though...aside from coaching the No Fly Zone, why is it convenient to forget that Woods contrived the #3 defense in the league last year without Wade?

If he's as inept as people are making him sound, how did he achieve that?

Talent matters, and it matters most at key positions, like CB for example.

I'm looking at his whole body of work here, not just the last three games, in formulating an opinion of whether he can coach or not. That seems like a reasonable way to look at something, which is why this idea that he's an idiot who can barely tie his own shoes seems rather suspicious to me.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:17 PM   #61
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Hey I give Musgraves some credit. He call a FULLBACK dive!
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