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Old 06-21-2018, 11:22 AM   #526
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The GOP’s ‘Utterly Dysfunctional’ Strategy of Babying Its Base

With his policy of systematically separating children from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border, Donald Trump finally extended his racially infused economic nationalism to a point that a critical mass of elected Republicans could not follow.

But the fact that many Republicans drew the line only at a policy that experts have likened to child abuse is a powerful measure of how far Trump has already bent the party toward his “America First” vision, particularly on immigration. Even after Trump tried to alleviate the backlash over the policy on Wednesday, the larger question is whether the opposition he provoked represents just a solitary speed bump in his reconfiguration of the GOP around nationalist themes, or the beginning of a broader pushback. ...
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:25 AM   #527
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Because Beavis didn't know they said the point of family separation was to deter immigration. If you only watch Faux "news" or the other right wing crap you did not get that information. Beavis is not dumb; just I'll-informed.

Maybe.

Not sure of the dumb part.

He digs up the chart on the immigration sources, but seems to be incurious to ask the simple question, "why". Doesn't respond to the description of the kids.


He is trolling because he is not only bored, but he is a boring human being himself.

Last edited by Paladin; 06-21-2018 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:32 AM   #528
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Who's the little orange kid down in front?
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:39 AM   #529
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Trumps order only applies to future families. The ones being held will continue to be held.

And Congress just knocked down the immigration bill because nothing dealing with Dreamers.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:49 AM   #530
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I seem to remember, when Congress passed the Simpson/Mazzoli bill in the late 80s, they gave amnesty to something like 11 million illegal immigrants and then said, "From now on... blah, blah, blah." Of course, none of the provisions in the bill were ever implemented or enforced and the whole thing was nothing but a big, bull**** show.

And now, we get the same thing all over again.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:06 PM   #531
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Because Beavis didn't know they said the point of family separation was to deter immigration. If you only watch Faux "news" or the other right wing crap you did not get that information. Beavis is not dumb; just I'll-informed.
Ironic...

2014...

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/u...ter-in-us.html

Detention Center Presented as Deterrent to Border Crossings

Detention was similarly claimed as inhumane. The 9th Circuit agreed. Against the very same justifications.

Oh the Crickets. How they chirped.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:07 PM   #532
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because nothing dealing with Dreamers.
Who are also a giant set of political pawns. For both sides.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:08 PM   #533
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Please link the court ruling you are making reference to.
??

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto...6/15-56434.pdf
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:09 PM   #534
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FOX is giving political poison a platform.

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Old 06-21-2018, 12:29 PM   #535
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Why not put a bunch of the kids at the White House? It is already a day care center.

Last edited by Paladin; 06-21-2018 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:31 PM   #536
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You didn't have to.

It's a default position for conservatives.

You hate "handouts" (for minorities, at any rate) on principle, but you'd rather subsidize Walmart's work force with your tax dollars than even think about asking Walmart to pay better wages.



If you're looking for the "net drainers" in America, then you're looking in the wrong place.

The real "net drainers" are siphoning all the wealth out of America's coffers while convincing gullible Fox News-watching sheep to blame immigrants.
Whole other topics I would like to get into, but not in this thread.

I blame the enablers.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:42 PM   #537
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Oh, damm. Not "them" again.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:46 PM   #538
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Ah, I thought so. Been listening to that scumbag Ted Cruz huh? Turns out that's pretty much a bull**** take:


http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-border-tied/
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:30 PM   #539
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And that's pretty much what happens, when that family is available.

That's not going to do away with the photo op scenario where the child cries for his detained mother.
Not really. Recall when asked where these kids go, John Kelly said “foster care or whatever.”

What happens when parents are arrested, as first-time border crossers, is that their kids are taken from them and they are then labeled “unaccompanied minors” and sent to ORR. They make an attempt to contact a relative IN THE US (they often have no relatives in the US - and often these kids don’t speak english) and then they get lost in the system. More than a thousand kids lost as of last count.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:37 PM   #540
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Ah, I thought so. Been listening to that scumbag Ted Cruz huh? Turns out that's pretty much a bull**** take:


http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-border-tied/
Lolz.

From your own article...

Quote:
But the ‘zero tolerance’ policy of detaining and criminally prosecuting all immigrants, even those who arrived with children, is what has led to this."
In other words, under current law, holding more parents requires more separations.

What these guys would like to say, but mostly can't is "well then stop holding their parents."

Because that would be the most laughable border security policy possible.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:43 PM   #541
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The order Trump signed does not take care of the children already being held.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/order-fam...181905683.html
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:45 PM   #542
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Lolz.

From your own article...



In other words, under current law, holding more parents requires more separations.

What these guys would like to say, but mostly can't is "well then stop holding their parents."

Because that would be the most laughable border security policy possible.
I'll happily say it, because putting them in jail is far more laughable. But then I know that we don't actually have an illegal immigrant problem unlike most idiotic Americans.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:47 PM   #543
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and often these kids don’t speak english) and then they get lost in the system. More than a thousand kids lost as of last count.
Heh. Now who's lapping up the propaganda...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/u...formation.html

How Liberals Got Lost on the Story of Missing Children at the Border

Quote:
The fact that so many Americans readily believed this myth offers a lesson in how partisan polarization colors people’s views on a gut emotional level without many even realizing it.

As other articles have explained, the missing children and the Trump administration’s separation of families who are apprehended at the border are two different matters.

The Trump administration does in fact have a new policy of prosecuting all undocumented border crossers, which involves separating parents from their children. But the 1,475 children whom the Department of Health and Human Services recently reported it cannot locate are not among those taken from their parents. These “missing” children had actually come to the United States without their parents, been picked up by the Border Patrol and then released to the custody of a parent or guardian.

Many probably are not really missing. The figure represents the number of children whose households didn’t answer the phone when the Department of Health and Human Services called to check on them. The unanswered phone calls may warrant further welfare checks, but are not themselves a sign that something nefarious has happened.

The Obama administration also detained immigrant families and children, as did other recent administrations.
And then a pretty good summary on how the OM's related Emo Session came to be...

Quote:
Immigrants’ rights activists have brought a series of lawsuits that challenged and ultimately overturned many detention efforts. But those efforts did not reach the level of national scandal that the Trump administration’s policies have now.

So what has changed? Rising partisan polarization.

...

Mr. Trump’s treatment of immigrant families and children, when refracted through the lens of partisan bias, affirms liberals’ perception of being engaged in a broader moral struggle with the right, making it feel like an urgent threat. Mr. Obama’s detaining of immigrant children, by contrast, felt like a matter of abstract moral concern.

Identity polarization means “you want to show that you’re a good member of your tribe,” Sean Westwood, a political scientist at Dartmouth College who studies partisan polarization, said in an interview early last year. “You want to show others that Republicans are bad or Democrats are bad, and your tribe is good.”.
Nailed it.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:50 PM   #544
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I'll happily say it, because putting them in jail is far more laughable. But then I know that we don't actually have an illegal immigrant problem unlike most idiotic Americans.
Can you point to another modern Democracy that has "turn 'em loose" as their defacto border enforcement policy?
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:00 PM   #545
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Beave just bemoaning the lack of proper PR on Cheetolini's part.

Not the actual policy.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:01 PM   #546
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Can you point to another modern Democracy that has "turn 'em loose" as their defacto border enforcement policy?
Why would I care about that one way or the other? If you think it's better and cheaper to imprison illegal immigrants from Mexico rather than send them back, I don't really know what to tell you.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:03 PM   #547
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Why would I care about that one way or the other? If you think it's better and cheaper to imprison illegal immigrants from Mexico rather than send them back, I don't really know what to tell you.
Oh they should absolutely just be immediately sent back if they consent.

The problem is a bunch of them make asylum claims. Which is where most of this issue arises.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:05 PM   #548
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Oh they should absolutely just be immediately sent back if they consent.

The problem is a bunch of them make asylum claims. Which is where most of this issue arises.
Okay, so the answer to people asking for asylum should be to imprison them? Seriously?
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:06 PM   #549
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Okay, so the answer to people asking for asylum should be to imprison them? Seriously?
What does Ag recommend?

Bearing in mind, again, that a large majority of these asylum requests are eventually denied.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:08 PM   #550
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I have the answer.

Express lanes so we can speed up the handouts and entitlements in exchange for votes and servitude.
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