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Old 06-19-2017, 12:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Do you know why must of the young men in Afghanistan join the Taliban? It's not because they believe in the strict Islamic teaching. It's because they don't have jobs or opportunities to advance. The Taliban gives them both. Since Eisenhower administration the US has attempted to fight our wars on the cheap and it hurt us. Bush and Obama along with Congress refuse to put in the required civilian resources to win the war, instead believing that military solution was all that was needed. Military actions give you space and time to achieve your policy goals they don't win the war.
military actions led to 9/11.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:00 PM   #27
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According to this report, the Syrian pilot survived and was rescued.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/06...n-of-intl-law/
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ShaneFalco View Post
The Associated Press‏ @AP 6h6 hours ago
BREAKING: Russia says it will treat US-led coalition planes in Syria, west of the Euphrates, as targets after US downed Syrian jet.
But first they have to shoot down the Aliens from the Moon.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:38 PM   #29
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how much is the kremlin paying gaffo
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:49 PM   #30
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how much is the kremlin paying gaffo
Req, what will you do when the Russians shoot down one of our fighters? Scream for blood? Or maybe: Nukem!

We are the aggressor in Syria -- not the Russians.

This is not going to end well.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by ShaneFalco View Post
elsid still beating down the insurgencies. 18 years later.

You need another two decades to finish the job?

Another trillion dumped into countries like Afghanistan?
There's going to be alot more spent then that over the next few decades. Some people in our government and roughly 36% of our citizens think this is a war that 1 side can actually win. From the Taliban, to Al Queda, to now ISIS and others. Remove one, another one pops up.

It's like trying to kill a lizard by chopping off it's tail. Endless war is only going to continue the radical ideology. And you can't bomb and shoot ideology no matter how much you spend. We have seen this first hand over the past 20 years or so. Just imagine if we took all the money we spend on war in the middle east and spent that on building schools over there.

Vice just had a recent episode where they were going over this very subject. There are thousands upon thousands of families in Iraq that want their kids to go to schools and there are none left, they've all been blown up. In my opinion, you can't try to build the entire country back all at once. They need to start with 1 region of the country and control that, build it back up, educate the people and then let that filter out on it's own pace to the other areas. It's going to take a long time, but that's what my strategy would be.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:02 PM   #32
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According to this report, the US military lied to us when it asserted that the Syrian fighter was attacking a Kurdish force allied with the US. The Syria government claimed its jet was attacking ISIS when it was shot down - -and this latest information supports that view.

The Syrian government claimed the US attacked its plane in defense of ISIS -- and it's beginning to look like the Syrian government is telling the truth.

Once again, it appears the US government is lying to us. The US is supporting terrorists - -as we have done since the late 1970s.

We are on the wrong side of this conflict.

Syria; U.S. Attack Fails To Disrupt Push To Deir Ezzor

By Moon Of Alabama

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47273.htm

The Russians obviously believe the US is supporting ISIS -- because they have just announced they will stop their air-space coordination with the US - -to avoid unwanted clashes with the US.

This means the Russians are all in -- here's text of the Russian press release:

In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense forces as air targets, the Russian Ministry of Defense stated.


So, we have arrived at the very thing I have warned about on this board for many years: a military stand-off with the Russians.

Who will blink first?

This is a no win situation for the US -- and for the world.

Last edited by mhgaffney; 06-19-2017 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
According to this report, the US military lied to us when it asserted that the Syrian fighter was attacking a Kurdish force allied with the US. The Syria government claimed its jet was attacking ISIS when it was shot down - -and this latest information supports that view.

The Syrian government claimed the US attacked its plane in defense of ISIS -- and it's beginning to look like the Syrian government is telling the truth.

Once again, it appears the US government is lying to us. The US is supporting terrorists - -as we have done since the late 1970s.

We are on the wrong side of this conflict.

Syria; U.S. Attack Fails To Disrupt Push To Deir Ezzor

By Moon Of Alabama

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47273.htm

The Russians obviously believe the US is supporting ISIS -- because they have just announced they will stop their air-space coordination with the US - -to avoid unwanted clashes with the US.

This means the Russians are all in -- here's text of the Russian press release:

In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense forces as air targets, the Russian Ministry of Defense stated.


So, we have arrived at the very thing I have warned about on this board for many years: a military stand-off with the Russians.

Who will blink first?

This is a no win situation for the US -- and for the world.
The sanctions against Russia help to cripple their economy and makes it more difficult for them to 'afford a war'. The best thing we can do to try and prevent a war with them is to continue with sanctions. Trump wanting to remove the sanctions if the fastest way to empower and aide Russia if a confrontation with us is to ensue. Keep your enemy's weak. You know, kinda like how the 1% try to do to the middle class and poor in this country.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:27 PM   #34
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No one in Washington will care, but it is worth remembering that the U.S. has no authority to be engaged in hostilities anywhere in Syria, and our government certainly has no authority to attack Syrian government forces operating inside their own country in support for anti-regime insurgents. Obama had no right to expand the war on ISIS into Syria, and Trump has no right to involve us in a war with the Syrian government. Our Syria policy is unwise and divorced from U.S. security interests, and it is also illegal.
U.S. Planes at Risk After Downing of Syrian Jet
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:36 PM   #35
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There's going to be alot more spent then that over the next few decades. Some people in our government and roughly 36% of our citizens think this is a war that 1 side can actually win. From the Taliban, to Al Queda, to now ISIS and others. Remove one, another one pops up.

It's like trying to kill a lizard by chopping off it's tail. Endless war is only going to continue the radical ideology. And you can't bomb and shoot ideology no matter how much you spend. We have seen this first hand over the past 20 years or so. Just imagine if we took all the money we spend on war in the middle east and spent that on building schools over there.

Vice just had a recent episode where they were going over this very subject. There are thousands upon thousands of families in Iraq that want their kids to go to schools and there are none left, they've all been blown up. In my opinion, you can't try to build the entire country back all at once. They need to start with 1 region of the country and control that, build it back up, educate the people and then let that filter out on it's own pace to the other areas. It's going to take a long time, but that's what my strategy would be.
its like people learned nothing from Vietnam.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:55 PM   #36
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its like people learned nothing from Vietnam.
What is it exactly that you learned from Vietnam?
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:24 PM   #37
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What is it exactly that you learned from Vietnam?
I think he means you can't just throw money, bullets, bombs, men and women at this type of war endlessly and expect it to be any different in the end. Vietnam obviously was a little different, as there was a real army, and not just an ideology with civilians taking up arms for a cause. But as I referenced in my post, there are no amount of bullets or bombs that's going to defeat ISIS. Because they are the same thing as the Taliban, Al Queda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. They all might have some slight differences, but the core of the cause is the same. You can't wipe out an entire continent or region with tanks, not in this day and age. We can't continue to blow through billions or trillions of dollars decade after decade to 'fight' these people. In my opinion, our efforts are spread out too thin. Change one area at a time, one city first, then several cities, then a country, then several countries, maybe then a region. The only way the region is going to change is like how a virus takes over. Infect 1 cell first, then several, and so on.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:53 PM   #38
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I think he means you can't just throw money, bullets, bombs, men and women at this type of war endlessly and expect it to be any different in the end. Vietnam obviously was a little different, as there was a real army, and not just an ideology with civilians taking up arms for a cause. But as I referenced in my post, there are no amount of bullets or bombs that's going to defeat ISIS. Because they are the same thing as the Taliban, Al Queda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. They all might have some slight differences, but the core of the cause is the same. You can't wipe out an entire continent or region with tanks, not in this day and age. We can't continue to blow through billions or trillions of dollars decade after decade to 'fight' these people. In my opinion, our efforts are spread out too thin. Change one area at a time, one city first, then several cities, then a country, then several countries, maybe then a region. The only way the region is going to change is like how a virus takes over. Infect 1 cell first, then several, and so on.
You are obviously young and do not remember Vietnam -- you know next to nothing about it.

You are also wrong about ISIS -- maybe because you have not been paying attention. ISIS is on the ropes -- and almost defeated. The alliance of Syria, Iran, Russia and Hezbollah is close to final victory.

The US and Kurds have been fighting ISIS in northern Syria -- and are close to victory there as well. But the US also uses ISIS against the Syrian government. This is why the US forces allow ISIS fighters to flee Raqqa to the south in the direction of Syrian forces. The idea is: let them fight one another.

This is the same sick twisted and immoral kind of thinking we've seen over and over from US leadership -- for example -- during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s when the US armed BOTH sides. The thinking was: let them kill one another.

This twisted foreign policy is unworthy of a great nation. So, why are there so few Americans who will stand up and speak the truth? Why Zona?

As I indicated the key question you should be asking is: why the implacable hatred here for Putin? You don't get this part, Zona, and you are not alone. The answer is simple: Putin saved Russia from certain destruction by western so called economic advisers whose goal was to break up Russia -- so that western elites could plunder its vast natural resources.

Putin put a stop to the plundering that went on during the Yeltsin years -- and the western elites can never forgive him for this. This explains Russia-gate and why Trump came under attack by the US intelligence community. The goal was to wreck his plan for detente with Russia - -and this not so covert op succeeded mightily.

But it also had unintended consequences -- and we are seeing this unfold in Syria. Thanks to Russia-gate, we are without leadership of any kind -- and are now in a desperate moment when we need leadership more than ever. Secretary of Defense Mad dog Matthis -- not the president -- is calling the shots in Syria and Matthis is a militarist who hates Russia.

That's the situation we are in - -and it's pretty grim. The US duplicity regarding ISIS is why the Russians broke off the hot line. They have tried and tried to work with the US for many months to end the Syria war -- to no avail. The US responds with treachery every time.

The fact the Russians ended the hot line with the US tells us they are out of patience. The Russian position is now hardening - - and trust me they have control of the skies over Syria. They can shoot down our aircraft any time they choose. From now on Russian radar will lock on to the US planes -- one step short of an actual shoot down. A final warning.

If the US aids ISIS again - - the Russians will probably start shooting down US planes. What then Zona?

You need to pull your head out of your ass -- and get on the horn to your senator and congressman --and demand that they take the floor of the Senate and House to denounce this rush to war with Russia. If we can get a spotlight on the fraudulent US policy with respect to ISIS - -there is a chance pressure to back off might compel Matthis to stop attacking Syria.

Several senators, Mike Lee, Bob Corker and also Rand Paul have stated that the President (meaning: the Pentagon) cannot attack Syria without a resolution of Congress. This is the debate that must take place now. Or else? Do you finally get the picture.

here is the Capitol Hill switchboard number: 202 - 224 - 3121

Last edited by mhgaffney; 06-19-2017 at 10:58 PM..
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