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Old 01-12-2019, 07:02 PM   #51
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I wouldn't be surprised if they draft a DE/DT at 10 and attempt to sneak back into the end of the first with what QB is still out there (So they get the 5 year option).
I’ll be pretty surprised since they need ILB and CB a lot more.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:14 PM   #52
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If I could get decent odds that they'd trade up for Lock, I'd put a little money on it. Almost every QB who doesn't go #1 or #2 gets traded up for and it's pretty clear Elway loves the guy.

I don't like it, but I'm betting it happens.
Outside of some rumors, I wouldn’t say we really know what Elway thinks of him. Also, this is all before the Senior Bowl and Combine, which could change a lot of things. I agree that he looks like what Elway likes, but we don’t really know anything.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:15 PM   #53
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I wouldn't be surprised if they draft a DE/DT at 10 and attempt to sneak back into the end of the first with what QB is still out there (So they get the 5 year option).
If we dont go QB, i think we'll take Devin White provided he's there.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:16 PM   #54
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Outside of some rumors, I wouldn’t say we really know what Elway thinks of him. Also, this is all before the Senior Bowl and Combine, which could change a lot of things. I agree that he looks like what Elway likes, but we don’t really know anything.
He's big and has a strong arm. What else do we need to know?
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:18 PM   #55
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If we dont go QB, i think we'll take Devin White provided he's there.
I’d be fine with that
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:40 PM   #56
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Since the CBA in 2011, the teams that decided to wait and take a QB well into the 2nd half of the 1st round ended up with Brandon Weeden [#22 in 2012], Johnny Manziel [#22 in 2014], Teddy Bridgewater [#32 in 2014], Paxton Lynch [#26 in 2016] and Lamar Jackson [#32 in 2018]. Not an impressive group.

On the other hand, teams that were aggressive recently and made moves to secure their guy early in the draft ended up with Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson.

When teams scout these QBs and let them slide past the 1st half of the 1st round, you can definitely tell they're not considered a 1st-round talent. It's a position group that is overvalued, pushed up the draft boards, so the QBs are considered really good are coveted in the top 10.

That QB available late in the 1st round is probably is a 2nd or 3rd-round project, then one team decides to roll the decide and secure that 5th-year option. However, Weeden and Manziel only lasted 2 seasons in Cleveland. Bridgewater only lasted 3 seasons in Minnesota; he got injured, but the Vikings were not patient and decided to let him go because he's not very good, with pedestrian production as a starter. Lynch only lasted 2 seasons in Denver. Where is the 5th-year option?

To me, it's very simple: you either scout and find "the guy" at QB with a really good grade, and then you do all you can to go get him, or accept that there isn't a franchise QB identified through the scouting process, so you focus on the best players available to improve the team in other areas.

Getting that QB you don't really love late in the 1st round... I don't like it. I think it's a desperation move and a recipe for disaster. If you really like a QB and sees him as a franchise player, you probably won't wait until the late part of the 1st round, and he probably won't be available there anyway.

It's safe to say that Elway was interested in Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold, but the Jets made their move and both QBs were gone before the Broncos were on the clock. So, the question is, with the Broncos picking at #10, is there a QB in this class that Elway likes as much as Mayfield and Darnold? If there is one, what will Elway do about it this time? This is going to be an interesting offseason.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:41 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by LikeABoss5820 View Post
If we dont go QB, i think we'll take Devin White provided he's there.
Elway doesn't prioritize off backers in the draft

It's
1. QB,
2. LT
3. Edge Rusher/Pass Rusher
4. CB
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:43 PM   #58
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Elway doesn't prioritize off backers in the draft

It's
1. QB,
2. LT
3. Edge Rusher/Pass Rusher
4. CB
That's going to change with Fangio.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:46 PM   #59
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Nope. Lock is not worth a trade up
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:47 PM   #60
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Elway needs to go to AA.

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Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
Since the CBA in 2011, the teams that decided to wait and take a QB well into the 2nd half of the 1st round ended up with Brandon Weeden [#22 in 2012], Johnny Manziel [#22 in 2014], Teddy Bridgewater [#32 in 2014], Paxton Lynch [#26 in 2016] and Lamar Jackson [#32 in 2018]. Not an impressive group.

On the other hand, teams that were aggressive recently and made moves to secure their guy early in the draft ended up with Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson.

When teams scout these QBs and let them slide past the 1st half of the 1st round, you can definitely tell they're not considered a 1st-round talent. It's a position group that is overvalued, pushed up the draft boards, so the QBs are considered really good are coveted in the top 10.

That QB available late in the 1st round is probably is a 2nd or 3rd-round project, then one team decides to roll the decide and secure that 5th-year option. However, Weeden and Manziel only lasted 2 seasons in Cleveland. Bridgewater only lasted 3 seasons in Minnesota; he got injured, but the Vikings were not patient and decided to let him go because he's not very good, with pedestrian production as a starter. Lynch only lasted 2 seasons in Denver. Where is the 5th-year option?

To me, it's very simple: you either scout and find "the guy" at QB with a really good grade, and then you do all you can to go get him, or accept that there isn't a franchise QB identified through the scouting process, so you focus on the best players available to improve the team in other areas.

Getting that QB you don't really love late in the 1st round... I don't like it. I think it's a desperation move and a recipe for disaster. If you really like a QB and sees him as a franchise player, you probably won't wait until the late part of the 1st round, and he probably won't be available there anyway.

It's safe to say that Elway was interested in Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold, but the Jets made their move and both QBs were gone before the Broncos were on the clock. So, the question is, with the Broncos picking at #10, is there a QB in this class that Elway likes as much as Mayfield and Darnold? If there is one, what will Elway do about it this time? This is going to be an interesting offseason.
What you're saying has some merit, but at the same time some of the best QB's in the league right now were taken well after the top ten: Brees (#32), Rodgers (#24), Wilson (#75), Brady (#199). And a lot of of top 10 QB's have flamed out. There's no guaranteed way to get a great QB. No one has conclusively figured out the equation of what college QB's will be great NFL QB's.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:47 PM   #61
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That's going to change with Fangio.
Fangio or no Fangio, the QB position is the biggest need.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:48 PM   #62
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Elway needs to go to AA.

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Elway doesn't prioritize off backers in the draft

It's
1. QB,
2. LT
3. Edge Rusher/Pass Rusher
4. CB
Fangio's defense changes the priorities. He's going to have to massively upgrade the ILB positions for Fangio to run his preferred style of defense.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:48 PM   #63
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Fangio or no Fangio, the QB position is the biggest need.
Nobody ever disputes this but it's like the 3rd or 4th time someone has responded to one of my posts pointing out that the team needs a quarterback...
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:52 PM   #64
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What you're saying has some merit, but at the same time some of the best QB's in the league right now were taken well after the top ten: Brees (#32), Rodgers (#24), Wilson (#75), Brady (#199). And a lot of of top 10 QB's have flamed out. There's no guaranteed way to get a great QB. No one has conclusively figured out the equation of what college QB's will be great NFL QB's.
And also the biggest NFL QB busts are always drafted high. There’s simply no guarantee that a QB will pan out, no matter how sure you are about him when you draft him.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:53 PM   #65
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Nobody ever disputes this but it's like the 3rd or 4th time someone has responded to one of my posts pointing out that the team needs a quarterback...
Everything is pointing to drafting a QBOTF. Elway is either going to trade up for a Lock/Jones or going pull off a major trade for a QB.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:55 PM   #66
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Everything is pointing to drafting a QBOTF. Elway is either going to trade up for a Lock/Jones or going pull off a major trade for a QB.
In this very thread, I said I think John trades up for Lock. We agree.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:56 PM   #67
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Fangio's defense changes the priorities. He's going to have to massively upgrade the ILB positions for Fangio to run his preferred style of defense.
He’s probably fine with Jewell but who knows about Davis and Marshall
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:56 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Elway doesn't prioritize off backers in the draft

It's
1. QB,
2. LT
3. Edge Rusher/Pass Rusher
4. CB
We dont have the linebackers currently to run the scheme Fangio likes to use, that changes with Fangio.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:57 PM   #69
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And also the biggest NFL QB busts are always drafted high. There’s simply no guarantee that a QB will pan out, no matter how sure you are about him when you draft him.
Isn't this self-evident? A bust is a combo of poor performance and high investment.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:57 PM   #70
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He’s probably fine with Jewell but who knows about Davis and Marshall
Fangio's backers stay on the field pretty much every down, we dont have anyone like that right now.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:58 PM   #71
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He’s probably fine with Jewell but who knows about Davis and Marshall
Jewell can't run. The only LB on the team who can run the way Fangio expects his LBs to is Joseph Jones and he is very raw.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:58 PM   #72
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And also the biggest NFL QB busts are always drafted high. There’s simply no guarantee that a QB will pan out, no matter how sure you are about him when you draft him.
Which brings up some of the funnier things people often say around here: "If you're convinced he's your guy, go and get him," and "Don't just draft a QB to draft a QB." I mean just because a GM is convinced a guy is great hardly means he will be, and just because a GM is kind of 'meh' on a guy doesn't mean he won't be great. Let's be real, the Seahawks were kind of 'meh' on Wilson. Otherwise they would've drafted him earlier. Likewise, the Chargers were certain Ryan Leaf would be amazing. The truth is that you just need to keep taking shots until you hit. That's the only way you are certain to get a good QB eventually.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:58 PM   #73
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Fangio or no Fangio, the QB position is the biggest need.
Everyone knows QB is the biggest need but 2nd is probably ILB given im not sure we have anyone who can play in Fangio's system.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:59 PM   #74
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Jewell can't run. The only LB on the team who can run the way Fangio expects his LBs to is Joseph Jones and he is very raw.
I don't think anyone is fine with Jewell. He's JAG.
But if they could somehow get a CJ Mosely in FA to go next to him.......
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:00 PM   #75
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He’s probably fine with Jewell but who knows about Davis and Marshall
I'm sure he can make Jewell work to a degree, but he isn't what Fangio's defense generally needs to run at full capacity. He needs fast, rangy three down linebackers who can play the run and pass, because he likes to keep them both on the field around 90% of the time.
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