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Old 01-07-2019, 10:22 AM   #151
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In the past he was solid. This year there were about 100 CBs better according to PFF(I know some hate that site but a lot here take it as religion). In the present heís JAG.

So Roby is worse than corners that dont even play regularly? If every team has 5 corners, that is 160 guys. If 3 play regularly per team, depending on how often they are in nickle, that is 96 dudes. Roughly. Obviously not counting injuries or going through every single corner on every roster. Did you mean defensive backs?


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Old 01-07-2019, 10:25 AM   #152
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[QUOTE=Archer81;5420991]There are a lot of players right now with their 1st contracts expiring. I suppose for you this means they are all busts, since all of those teams have yet to offer new contracts, being that the 2018 is not exactly over yet. New contracts are usually offered for the new league year.

Do you really not know how this works?

:Broncos

Yep. There are.
Rookie players who play like dog $h!t and quit on their team are a select part of that group. Thatís why Roby doesnít have a deal now and thatís why he wasnít locked up at the end of last year.
Heís a 1st round bust.

Lets move on to Shane Ray now.
Is he a bust?
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:36 AM   #153
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There are a lot of players right now with their 1st contracts expiring. I suppose for you this means they are all busts, since all of those teams have yet to offer new contracts, being that the 2018 is not exactly over yet. New contracts are usually offered for the new league year.

Do you really not know how this works?

:Broncos

Yep. There are.
Rookie players who play like dog $h!t and quit on their team are a select part of that group. Thatís why Roby doesnít have a deal now and thatís why he wasnít locked up at the end of last year.
Heís a 1st round bust.

Lets move on to Shane Ray now.
Is he a bust?

Roby is not a bust. And using a lack of an extension last season as proof isnt helping your case. Using a lack of extension this season is not proof either.

Ray could be classified as an injury bust. 64 possible games, played in 49 of them, only started 15. Weirdly, Ray's production (and number of starts) mirrors Barretts. A guy you signaled you'd want to keep if the team traded Von.

And that is what I mean. Ray and Roby have production as Broncos players. They are not all pros or pro bowlers. Likely they wont get a second contract. That alone does not make them busts, but just average 1st round selections.

Lynch is an outright bust. Horrible pick.

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Old 01-07-2019, 10:52 AM   #154
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Roby is not a bust. And using a lack of an extension last season as proof isnt helping your case. Using a lack of extension this season is not proof either.

Ray could be classified as an injury bust. 64 possible games, played in 49 of them, only started 15. Weirdly, Ray's production (and number of starts) mirrors Barretts. A guy you signaled you'd want to keep if the team traded Von.

And that is what I mean. Ray and Roby have production as Broncos players. They are not all pros or pro bowlers. Likely they wont get a second contract. That alone does not make them busts, but just average 1st round selections.

Lynch is an outright bust. Horrible pick.

I donít care about Barrett. Sure keep him. Let him go. Whatever. Itís ultimately irrelevant cause in that scenario they are doing what they should do and rebuild.
Heís just a rebuilding option. Ray is a bust because heís as you say, always injured and when he wasnít, the staff was wasting time letting him play instead of Barrett. Thatís what happens when you draft busts, it compounds on itself and now that player is taking away from another. Same situation with Paxil in reverse. He canít get on the field because of Semian. Wasting time. Years go by and.....,nothing.
Years have gone by with Roby. Heís regressed. He was only ever relevant when he had a healthy Harris and Talib out there with him.
Now that heís asked to cover #1 receivers, heís burnt toast. Consistently.
Thatís not acceptable for a 1st round player, and his terrible play this year only reflected that.
And thatís why heís not been given a new deal and the FO suspected it last year, which is why they declined to offer him even any contract last offseason.
Time to move on and start over at yet another position.
Fortunately Chubb hides the Ray mess.
Yiadom.....we will see.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:08 AM   #155
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So Roby is worse than corners that dont even play regularly? If every team has 5 corners, that is 160 guys. If 3 play regularly per team, depending on how often they are in nickle, that is 96 dudes. Roughly. Obviously not counting injuries or going through every single corner on every roster. Did you mean defensive backs?


I should clarify. DB. Sorry about that

He was ranked 98th.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:12 AM   #156
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I donít care about Barrett. Sure keep him. Let him go. Whatever. Itís ultimately irrelevant cause in that scenario they are doing what they should do and rebuild.
Heís just a rebuilding option. Ray is a bust because heís as you say, always injured and when he wasnít, the staff was wasting time letting him play instead of Barrett. Thatís what happens when you draft busts, it compounds on itself and now that player is taking away from another. Same situation with Paxil in reverse. He canít get on the field because of Semian. Wasting time. Years go by and.....,nothing.
Years have gone by with Roby. Heís regressed. He was only ever relevant when he had a healthy Harris and Talib out there with him.
Now that heís asked to cover #1 receivers, heís burnt toast. Consistently.
Thatís not acceptable for a 1st round player, and his terrible play this year only reflected that.

And thatís why heís not been given a new deal and the FO suspected it last year, which is why they declined to offer him even any contract last offseason.
Time to move on and start over at yet another position.
Fortunately Chubb hides the Ray mess.
Yiadom.....we will see.
Roby is the same now as he was in 2015 or 16. He is playing the same position now he was then. The difference is the talent level around him is not the same now as it was then. He is an average corner, which by itself does not make him a bust. And every corner gets burned. Every single one. Multiple times a season. That is the nature of the position they play.

And his not getting a contract offer a week after the season ends is not proof he is a bust. The last player the Broncos extended in season was McManus in 2017.

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Old 01-07-2019, 11:30 AM   #157
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Lack of a contract is EXACTLY why heís a bust. He was drafted in the 1st round to be the #1 CB. Heís failed miserably. So much so, that he quit on his team.
His contract is up, and heís not been given a new one. Why in the world would a team NOT have their precious, young 1st round player not under contract going into his FA offseason? Cause heís a bust. Thatís why.
Teams donít let their best young players enter into FA. They do a contract before he even, ever gets their.
But yeah, you keep grasping for those excuses.
It seems that your definition of a bust and most of the other people's definition of a bust are different. My definition of a 1st round bust is someone who is not a starter or didn't contribute much to the team like Paxton and Ray. Even though Ray's were depth and injury related.
It's nearly impossible to hit on first round draft picks every year and have them survive to see a contract renewal with the same team. Because of this, I don't consider Roby and Ray busts. They can both play in the league and will get good contacts elsewhere to become starters.
Now do I want them back? No, due to the amount of money they will demand and the numerous amount of other positions that need filling.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:13 PM   #158
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It seems that your definition of a bust and most of the other people's definition of a bust are different. My definition of a 1st round bust is someone who is not a starter or didn't contribute much to the team like Paxton and Ray. Even though Ray's were depth and injury related.
It's nearly impossible to hit on first round draft picks every year and have them survive to see a contract renewal with the same team. Because of this, I don't consider Roby and Ray busts. They can both play in the league and will get good contacts elsewhere to become starters.
Now do I want them back? No, due to the amount of money they will demand and the numerous amount of other positions that need filling.
Agreed. My definition of a 1st round bust is a player who doesnít take over at said position at a Pro Bowl level or close to it and is taking steps from his rookie year to year 2 and playing at toward Pro Bowl level.
Doesnít have to be All Pro 1st team, but needs to be close or in the conversation.
And is consistently improving and taking steps toward that outcome
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #159
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Agreed. My definition of a 1st round bust is a player who doesnít take over at said position at a Pro Bowl level or close to it and is taking steps from his rookie year to year 2 and playing at toward Pro Bowl level.
Doesnít have to be All Pro 1st team, but needs to be close or in the conversation.

Then 95% of 1st round picks are busts to you.

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Old 01-07-2019, 12:25 PM   #160
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I would think that we're "blocking" Kube until a new head coach is hired and makes a decision on him. Maybe whomever we hire wants him, so why would we release him in that case? New HC doesn't want him, we let him walk - though I'd rather keep him in the FO, but if he wants to go OC somewhere else, we shouldn't stop him, after our new HC determines whether he wants Kubes or not.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:25 PM   #161
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Then 95% of 1st round picks are busts to you.

Nah. Just as long as heís going in the direction of consistent Pro Bowl level player after year 2. Which Roby after many more years isnít.
Heís regressing now that he was given #1 WRs.
Roby should have been vying for #1 CB status when he and Talib and Harris were all playing together. Those steps should been taken then. Instead, he has always been behind them and never challenged anyone. Hell, Yiadom was getting reps at times ahead of him with #1 recievers this year.
Thatís a 1st round bust.

Also, Alot of us are on the fence with Bolles. Thereís more improvement from him though, so he gets one more year to get it all fixed. He has some consistent preformances this year. I think heís getting it, but we will see.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:57 PM   #162
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I would think that we're "blocking" Kube until a new head coach is hired and makes a decision on him. Maybe whomever we hire wants him, so why would we release him in that case? New HC doesn't want him, we let him walk - though I'd rather keep him in the FO, but if he wants to go OC somewhere else, we shouldn't stop him, after our new HC determines whether he wants Kubes or not.
Do you think anyone not wanting Kubiak in some capacity is receiving serious consideration for HC? I have my doubts. What a broad search.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:01 PM   #163
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Nah. Just as long as heís going in the direction of consistent Pro Bowl level player after year 2. Which Roby after many more years isnít.
Heís regressing now that he was given #1 WRs.
Roby should have been vying for #1 CB status when he and Talib and Harris were all playing together. Those steps should been taken then. Instead, he has always been behind them and never challenged anyone. Hell, Yiadom was getting reps at times ahead of him with #1 recievers this year.
Thatís a 1st round bust.

Also, Alot of us are on the fence with Bolles. Thereís more improvement from him though, so he gets one more year to get it all fixed. He has some consistent preformances this year. I think heís getting it, but we will see.
Most players do not become pro-bowlers or all pros. But not all 1st round picks are necessarily Paxton Lynch, either. Roby and Ray are in this middle ground. Not the great player, but not outright horrible either. That is a label for Williams and Bolles too.

And Roby was never going to be the #1 corner with Harris and Talib in front of him. He was drafted as a luxury and a surprise the same offseason we signed Talib and that is exactly what he was for the no fly zone. A competent corner to play opposite Talib so Harris could play nickle. You being upset because he was not a number 1 corner after his rookie year is immaterial.

So it appears the standards you have for players is higher than what they have for themselves or the teams that select them. Most 1st round picks do not get 2nd contracts from their draft teams, and most of them do not become probowlers or all pros.

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Old 01-07-2019, 01:08 PM   #164
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True, but he only got it right with Peyton so far.
Paxton Lynch -1st round BUST
Shane Ray - 1st round BUST
Bradley Roby - 1st round BUST

That right there gets a GM fired under ordinary circumstances.
I'm hoping he turns it around, but the trajectory of this team is spiraling downward, both engines on fire.
Those picks were sandwiched between SBs and Paxton was just a few months after SB 50. No GM gets fired immediately after winning the SB, 2 AFC champs, and 5 divisions.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:14 PM   #165
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Those picks were sandwiched between SBs and Paxton was just a few months after SB 50. No GM gets fired immediately after winning the SB, 2 AFC champs, and 5 divisions.
Add those busts into the mix of other fustercluckd like Keesum and Radio and it should get you fired under normal circumstances.
I am not saying he should have been fired seconds after he drafted Paxil.
FFS
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:14 PM   #166
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Bradley Roby is not a "bust"
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:15 PM   #167
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Bradley Roby is not a "bust"
He was just oversold during the Talib move. Not really his fault.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:16 PM   #168
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Roby was outside DB in nickel situations in 2015 (CHJ and Talib). He will also be getting a 2nd NFL contract.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:16 PM   #169
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He was just oversold during the Talib move. Not really his fault.
Yeah he's definitely better suited as a 2nd outside DB. Not a 1DB.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:17 PM   #170
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Most players do not become pro-bowlers or all pros. But not all 1st round picks are necessarily Paxton Lynch, either. Roby and Ray are in this middle ground. Not the great player, but not outright horrible either. That is a label for Williams and Bolles too.

And Roby was never going to be the #1 corner with Harris and Talib in front of him. He was drafted as a luxury and a surprise the same offseason we signed Talib and that is exactly what he was for the no fly zone. A competent corner to play opposite Talib so Harris could play nickle. You being upset because he was not a number 1 corner after his rookie year is immaterial.

So it appears the standards you have for players is higher than what they have for themselves or the teams that select them. Most 1st round picks do not get 2nd contracts from their draft teams, and most of them do not become probowlers or all pros.

Hey, Joe Ellis agreed with you so you got that goin for ya!!
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:20 PM   #171
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Hey, Joe Ellis agreed with you so you got that goin for ya!!

Doesnt change the fact that this is how it works, man.


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Old 01-07-2019, 01:23 PM   #172
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Doesnt change the fact that this is how it works, man.


You donít draft #3 CBís in the 1st round.
Thatís a bust to me. I donít care if he plays somewhere.
Heís not a #1 CB. Heís really not even a #2. He struggled there too.
They drafted him to be a #1. They thought he was. He isnít.
Fail.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:24 PM   #173
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So Roby is worse than corners that dont even play regularly? If every team has 5 corners, that is 160 guys. If 3 play regularly per team, depending on how often they are in nickle, that is 96 dudes. Roughly. Obviously not counting injuries or going through every single corner on every roster. Did you mean defensive backs?


Also don't forget if a player has four good years and one bad one where he's asked to play a lot more zone then clearly he's a bust since that one year trumps the previous four.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:30 PM   #174
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You donít draft #3 CBís in the 1st round.
Thatís a bust to me. I donít care if he plays somewhere.
Heís not a #1 CB. Heís really not even a #2. He struggled there too.
They drafted him to be a #1. They thought he was. He isnít.
Fail.

Considering what you consider a bust is as wide the the pacific is deep, its not a surprise you believe Roby to be a bust.

But its just what you think, and stamping your feet over it wont make it so. Lynch is a bust. Roby is not.

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Old 01-07-2019, 01:31 PM   #175
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Also don't forget if a player has four good years and one bad one where he's asked to play a lot more zone then clearly he's a bust since that one year trumps the previous four.
More excuses. Nice.
4 years. So itís official. Fontaine feels Paxil deserved a 4th year to get it right.
It takes time. Kubiak to Musgrave was just soooo tough.
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