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Old 12-31-2018, 05:11 PM   #26
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Like Cousins?

I agree.

My point last year.

So, for most of us, its draft a rookie and hopefully within that window of his rookie contract (4 years I think) need to get it done.

When is Luck up for contract btw? Anyone know?
He's signed for 3 more years but i wouldnt be surprised if they re-did his contract this offseason since hes proved hes back now.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:12 PM   #27
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So, how many OLinemen of theirs are under a rookie contract?
I think 5-7 but only Castanzo makes alot of money.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:25 PM   #28
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The bottom 20 qbs this year didnít make the playoffs. (Just assuming) probably pretty accurate
Pat Mahomes is the 34th highest paid
Mitch Trubisky is 28th
Carson Wentz is 27th
Jared Goff is the 26th
Nick Foles is the 20th.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/quarterback/
And of course Tom Brady is the 17th, but you asked about the 20th on down.
Why?
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:30 PM   #29
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BB, you and your QB contract theories is very weird. You can win if you have a QB on a big contract.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:38 PM   #30
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BB, you and your QB contract theories is very weird. You can win if you have a QB on a big contract.
Top 6, not one in the playoffs.

I provided the bottom.

And you tell me my theory is weird?

Wonder why Tom Brady restructured his to be the 17th highest.

Peyton Manning did the same here.

I cannot tell if Broncos fans are still crying about Cousins.

Still want to unload the bank on some free agent.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:42 PM   #31
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Top 6, not one in the playoffs.

I provided the bottom.

And you tell me my theory is weird?

Wonder why Tom Brady restructured his to be the 17th highest.

Peyton Manning did the same here.

I cannot tell if Broncos fans are still crying about Cousins.

Still want to unload the bank on some free agent.
Nah, i wanna draft/develop our own guy and if they turn elite, yes, we'll have to pay them a ton of money. That comes with the position.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:43 PM   #32
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3 of the top 4 passers did not make it either (attempts)
not sure what they got paid, wonder if it was by the pass?
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:46 PM   #33
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Luck's base salary will go from $24 million to $27 million next year and $28 million the year after. The final year of the contract is $21. I'd imagine that if he stays healthy, they'll resign him and make him the highest paid QB in the league. The direction that the market is going, that may be over $35 million.

I don't follow the Colts closely, but every time the media folks talk about Luck being the MVP, they say that he's not surrounded by much. So have they really built their roster right? Sounds like they have a lot of holes to fill. Even with a lot of cap space, will it be enough to fill all the holes?
It's mostly Luck carrying the offense while the defense plays sound football.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:47 PM   #34
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Luck's base salary will go from $24 million to $27 million next year and $28 million the year after. The final year of the contract is $21. I'd imagine that if he stays healthy, they'll resign him and make him the highest paid QB in the league. The direction that the market is going, that may be over $35 million.

I don't follow the Colts closely, but every time the media folks talk about Luck being the MVP, they say that he's not surrounded by much. So have they really built their roster right? Sounds like they have a lot of holes to fill. Even with a lot of cap space, will it be enough to fill all the holes?
The Colts have really done a good job drafting, letting go of aging/underproducing vets and letting their younger guys play.

Luck rules that offense. Everything starts with him and he has no problem hitting intermediate throws when guys are covered because his ball placement is excellent. It's crazy sometimes. It's like a defense will specifically go all out to stop their three targets and Luck just completes the throw anyway. They're going to be fun to watch and Frank Reich does a good job of making sure Luck doesn't have to put himself at risk making those deeper throws by mixing in screens, shorter throws, and run plays.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:49 PM   #35
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Top 6, not one in the playoffs.

I provided the bottom.

And you tell me my theory is weird?

Wonder why Tom Brady restructured his to be the 17th highest.

Peyton Manning did the same here.

I cannot tell if Broncos fans are still crying about Cousins.

Still want to unload the bank on some free agent.
Your theory is a joke, not just weird. First of all, five of those six QB's are just massively overpaid 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Overpaying players is a bad way to run a team in general. Additionally Luck and Brees are just outside that top 6 and both have been their teams' mvps.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:52 PM   #36
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The QB market is way too high. I get that they should be the highest paid, but the problem is that they dwarf everybody else. I believe that if Stafford took a $19 million pay cut, he'd still be the highest paid player on that team. He's taking up 14% of their cap. After him there are a few guys taking up 3% each. I don't blame him or any QB for taking the money. But these teams need to realize that simply having a franchise caliber QB isn't enough to win. Paying a second tier QB first tier money is going to fail. A market that gives Cousins $28 million and Keenum $18 million is crazy.
Elway has tried this with Osweiler and Keenum. The market is being set by teams with dumbass FO that is making others spend a ****load on QB as well. At that price you get dog****. That is why teams spend a ton on QB to avoid the clearance guys like the two I mentioned.

If Denver finds a QBOTF, that's the price it'll be to keep him whether Elway likes it or not unless he's the QB version of Philip Lindsay.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:57 PM   #37
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I would offer up our 10th pick for Carr.

I know it is in the division but with the way Gruden values draft picks over vets I would call to see what they wanted.

Carr was drafted in the 2nd round so we would over pay at 10 but he is an upgrade over Keenuts and at 10 the best QB, CB, and OL will be off the board by then.

Restructure Keenuts to reflect backup QB pay or cut him. We need depth there.

Use the rest of the draft to go BPA. Maybe convince Oakland to give back a 5th or lower draft pick.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:04 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Broncoblood32 View Post
Pat Mahomes is the 34th highest paid
Mitch Trubisky is 28th
Carson Wentz is 27th
Jared Goff is the 26th
Nick Foles is the 20th.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/quarterback/
And of course Tom Brady is the 17th, but you asked about the 20th on down.
Why?


Most of those QBs will hit 30+M per soon sans Foles, maybe Trubisky depending on how he develops.

So you think itís a good idea to dump them then? Youre going to let Mahomes go when his 2nd contract is due? Cause itís going to be massive if he keeps getting better. Maybe 40M per by then.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:07 PM   #39
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Your theory is a joke, not just weird. First of all, five of those six QB's are just massively overpaid 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Overpaying players is a bad way to run a team in general. Additionally Luck and Brees are just outside that top 6 and both have been their teams' mvps.
Read this article.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl...ns-free-agency

The NFL is a quarterbacks league. You canít win without a good one, and you canít get a good one without paying A LOT of money for him. Thatís why good-but-not-great quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford sign for record money and everybody celebrates the deal. Thatís why the Redskins get ripped for refusing to give an above average quarterback the biggest contract in NFL history.

Hereís the problem with that sentiment: There is no proof that paying for a quarterback leads to winning. In fact, there is basically no correlation between a quarterbackís compensation and how many games he wins. We did the math.

For the following chart, we picked out every season since 2013 in which a quarterback started at least half of his teamís games. That gave us a sample of 158 individual seasons. We then plotted those seasons based on the quarterbackís winning percentage and cap hit percentage during that season. Here is the result.

Chart is in the article


We get a correlation coefficient†of .038. If youíve forgotten everything you learned in that statistics course you took back in college,†thatís statistically meaningless. For a point of comparison, there is a stronger correlation (three times stronger, actually) between a teamís preseason winning percentage and their regular season winning percentage. Thereís is no correlation between a quarterbackís salary and how many games he wins, so whatever benefit a team gets from paying the quarterback premium is not showing up on the scoreboard.

And this continues to be apparent when looking at the cap hit percentages of every Super Bowl-winning quarterback since the implementation of the salary cap before the 1994 season.

The record for the highest cap hit percentage remains Steve Youngís 13.1% in that first season, when teams were still getting used to building rosters under a budget.†Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their teamís cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning.

Obviously, Eli is the anomaly here. Peyton and Brady are two of the greatest quarterbacks ever, and Peyton was dragged to his second ring by a historically great defense. Manningís Giants werenít a great team ó just a good one that got hot at the right time. Teams arenít building their rosters to be the next 2011 Giants is all Iím saying.

------------------


Just read the whole article. It is an interesting read.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:08 PM   #40
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I would offer up our 10th pick for Carr.

I know it is in the division but with the way Gruden values draft picks over vets I would call to see what they wanted.

Carr was drafted in the 2nd round so we would over pay at 10 but he is an upgrade over Keenuts and at 10 the best QB, CB, and OL will be off the board by then.

Restructure Keenuts to reflect backup QB pay or cut him. We need depth there.

Use the rest of the draft to go BPA. Maybe convince Oakland to give back a 5th or lower draft pick.
if anything I'd trade up to get a QB if we identify one as a can't miss guy. Denver has 9 draft picks this year (2 4th, 2 5th, and 3 7th). They won't use all of them so use those plus a 2nd or 3rd and get the guy you like
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:09 PM   #41
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The Colts have really done a good job drafting, letting go of aging/underproducing vets and letting their younger guys play.

Luck rules that offense. Everything starts with him and he has no problem hitting intermediate throws when guys are covered because his ball placement is excellent. It's crazy sometimes. It's like a defense will specifically go all out to stop their three targets and Luck just completes the throw anyway. They're going to be fun to watch and Frank Reich does a good job of making sure Luck doesn't have to put himself at risk making those deeper throws by mixing in screens, shorter throws, and run plays.



Yep. They have drafted pretty damn good.

Luck is an elite freak. My favorite QB in the league and thatís not just cause Iím Stanford Biased. Heís amazingly fun to watch.

My wish pick to win the super bowl.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:10 PM   #42
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Read this article.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl...ns-free-agency

The NFL is a quarterbacks league. You canít win without a good one, and you canít get a good one without paying A LOT of money for him. Thatís why good-but-not-great quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford sign for record money and everybody celebrates the deal. Thatís why the Redskins get ripped for refusing to give an above average quarterback the biggest contract in NFL history.

Hereís the problem with that sentiment: There is no proof that paying for a quarterback leads to winning. In fact, there is basically no correlation between a quarterbackís compensation and how many games he wins. We did the math.

For the following chart, we picked out every season since 2013 in which a quarterback started at least half of his teamís games. That gave us a sample of 158 individual seasons. We then plotted those seasons based on the quarterbackís winning percentage and cap hit percentage during that season. Here is the result.

Chart is in the article


We get a correlation coefficient†of .038. If youíve forgotten everything you learned in that statistics course you took back in college,†thatís statistically meaningless. For a point of comparison, there is a stronger correlation (three times stronger, actually) between a teamís preseason winning percentage and their regular season winning percentage. Thereís is no correlation between a quarterbackís salary and how many games he wins, so whatever benefit a team gets from paying the quarterback premium is not showing up on the scoreboard.

And this continues to be apparent when looking at the cap hit percentages of every Super Bowl-winning quarterback since the implementation of the salary cap before the 1994 season.

The record for the highest cap hit percentage remains Steve Youngís 13.1% in that first season, when teams were still getting used to building rosters under a budget.†Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their teamís cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning.

Obviously, Eli is the anomaly here. Peyton and Brady are two of the greatest quarterbacks ever, and Peyton was dragged to his second ring by a historically great defense. Manningís Giants werenít a great team ó just a good one that got hot at the right time. Teams arenít building their rosters to be the next 2011 Giants is all Iím saying.

------------------


Just read the whole article. It is an interesting read.
Yes because teams pay guys like Cousins, Flacco, and Stafford like they're Brady, Manning, or Brees. That doesn't prove your point. It just proves that league executives are a dangerous blend of desperate and stupid.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:12 PM   #43
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Elway has tried this with Osweiler and Keenum. The market is being set by teams with dumbass FO that is making others spend a ****load on QB as well. At that price you get dog****. That is why teams spend a ton on QB to avoid the clearance guys like the two I mentioned.

If Denver finds a QBOTF, that's the price it'll be to keep him whether Elway likes it or not unless he's the QB version of Philip Lindsay.
My view is that you should always be playing a QB on a rookie contract if you don't have an elite one. Never, and I mean never, pay mediocre QB's big money.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:14 PM   #44
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Most of those QBs will hit 30+M per soon sans Foles, maybe Trubisky depending on how he develops.

So you think itís a good idea to dump them then? Youre going to let Mahomes go when his 2nd contract is due? Cause itís going to be massive if he keeps getting better. Maybe 40M per by then.
No, they cannot. No way those teams could do that. However, based on studies, when those QBs do break those teams banks, they will drop more than likely.

A few exceptions, but people wonder why GMs just cannot get talent around Aaron Rodgers. Who, has been one of the most productive QBs ever. Yet, the one and only season he went to the SB, their defense that year was ranked 2nd in the NFL in PPG. Has not been all that close since. That was 2010. Its 2018.

Those teams will be pretty much forced to pay those QBs. Like the Ravens who were pretty much forced to pay for Flacco. Like 7 players left, this is the first year they have been back to the playoffs.

Their defense, number one in the NFL (pretty and young relatively cheap) their high priced QB is on the bench while the low paid QB leads them.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:22 PM   #45
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My view is that you should always be playing a QB on a rookie contract if you don't have an elite one. Never, and I mean never, pay mediocre QB's big money.
So you would have cut Stafford? Ok

Owner would have fired you.

Also, the the market dictates price.

I seem to remember the fan base going crazy after the Broncos did not want to pay for poopy pants Cutler cause this idiotic fan base thought he was a "franchise QB."

Anyone who posted on the espn boards and knows me know that I had epic knock down fights with Cutler Broncos fans.

Bus Cook and Scott Pioli really did a number on the two youngsters McDaniels and Xanders.

The team however was wise NOT to pay for poopy Cutler and the fan base still cries about that.

What other QBs would you have just cut? Stafford, and who else?
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:23 PM   #46
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No, they cannot. No way those teams could do that. However, based on studies, when those QBs do break those teams banks, they will drop more than likely.

A few exceptions, but people wonder why GMs just cannot get talent around Aaron Rodgers. Who, has been one of the most productive QBs ever. Yet, the one and only season he went to the SB, their defense that year was ranked 2nd in the NFL in PPG. Has not been all that close since.

Those teams will be pretty much forced to pay those QBs. Like the Ravens who were pretty much forced to pay for Flacco. Like 7 players left, this is the first year they have been back to the playoffs.

Their defense, number one in the NFL (pretty and young relatively cheap) their high priced QB is on the bench while the low paid QB leads them.
I certainly don't. Rodgers has been completely weighed down by a ****ty head coach and mediocre drafting. Listen it's not complicated. Once you have an elite QB on a big contract you need to build the rest of your roster more cheaply, which means drafting well. Many of the elite QB's in the league do not have FO's that are great at drafting, and thus their teams tend to regress to the median a bit. Part of the reason those QB's don't have great drafting FO's is that they keep their teams competitive, allowing bad to mediocre coaches and executives to keep their jobs for far too long. We've seen it in Green Bay. We've seen it in New Orleans. We saw it in Indianapolis. And, while you want to make Brady's reduced pay the key factor in New England's success, it just isn't. Belichick is a great coach. who also cheats, and who has coached in a joke division his whole tenure there. Brady's lower salary has never really contributed anything significant, especially since they don't even pay to bring in major free agents, or pay to keep their promising young guys.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:25 PM   #47
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Anyone here know the last time a first team all pro QB won the SB?


Look it up. May shock you.

Hint:

The towers were still up and no one knew anything about Tom Brady, unless you were a Michigan fan.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:25 PM   #48
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So you would have cut Stafford? Ok

Owner would have fired you.

Also, the the market dictates price.

I seem to remember the fan base going crazy after the Broncos did not want to pay for poopy pants Cutler cause this idiotic fan base thought he was a "franchise QB."

Anyone who posted on the espn boards and knows me know that I had epic knock down fights with Cutler Broncos fans.

Bus Cook and Scott Pioli really did a number on the two youngsters McDaniels and Xanders.

The team however was wise NOT to pay for poopy Cutler and the fan base still cries about that.

What other QBs would you have just cut? Stafford, and who else?
I didn't say I would cut them. I simply wouldn't have given them those big paydays once their rookie deals were done.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:26 PM   #49
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I would offer up our 10th pick for Carr.

I know it is in the division but with the way Gruden values draft picks over vets I would call to see what they wanted.

Carr was drafted in the 2nd round so we would over pay at 10 but he is an upgrade over Keenuts and at 10 the best QB, CB, and OL will be off the board by then.

Restructure Keenuts to reflect backup QB pay or cut him. We need depth there.

Use the rest of the draft to go BPA. Maybe convince Oakland to give back a 5th or lower draft pick.
Awful idea, Carr isnt that good.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:29 PM   #50
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I didn't say I would cut them. I simply wouldn't have given them those big paydays once their rookie deals were done.
Are you aware of how contract negotiations work and how market dictates price? Dealing with agents?

How would you avoid paying them when they are up for negotiation?

I mean you would not "cut them" but you would just let them go?

Don't blame you, but that would take huge freaking balls.
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