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Old 01-11-2019, 11:54 AM   #76
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I agree with this. I think it's self-explanatory and can't be argued when phrased in this manner. It's all about resource management. You can win with an insanely expensive QB, but you have to hit home runs on draft picks and UDFA to fill in the gaps on the team, and then you have to hope the few studs you do have outside the QB don't get injured because your depth is probably shallow and/or inexperienced.
Yup. I'm not sure why most are struggling so much with this. Or so opposed to the logic. As if I'm suggesting the earth is flat.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:57 AM   #77
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You're looking at this myopically. $6 mil in one year, but QB contracts are multiple year. And you may not be able to land some FA's, or extend some of your own players, because you offer a player $7mil but somebody else offers $2mil. So the high salary impacts you over multiple years. If Denver signed Cousins last year they wouldn't have been able to make other moves that they made.
Denver finished this year $6 mil under the cap and last year $10 mil under so would a hypothetical contract have stopped them from singing anybody?
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:58 AM   #78
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I think some of y'all overthink this a little bit. Nobody's saying you can't win a Super Bowl with a $20mil+ QB. But the evidence suggests it's more difficult to do so. And it's just common sense that it would be. If you QB makes $25mil, for example, that's 14% of your cap space. Meaning you have to minimize in other areas. Nothing controversial. It is what it is.

Von Millerís cap hit this year is 25M. Your cap gets eaten up regardless. 7M extra or so for a QB(20+M range) or so can be absorbed. When that QB sucks like Flacco thatís the problem.

QBs are in on every single offensive play. Itís the most important position. Itís why the Daltons and Tennehills of the world never see a trophy. The position is supposed to eat up cap space. The problem isnít a QB doing that, the problem is a FO giving bad/mediocre QBs that kind of money.

Mahomes will likely hit near 40M per his next contract. Will that mean they are done? Nope because heís not Stafford.

The key is finding the balance between younger non QB players on 1st contracts and key FAs. Thatís why FOs are important to a teams success. Itís much easier to find those kind of players than it is a QB. So naturally QBs cost money. Great ones cost more. Dumb FOs canít see the difference between good and mediocre ABs.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #79
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Yup. I'm not sure why most are struggling so much with this. Or so opposed to the logic. As if I'm suggesting the earth is flat.
No one is arguing that it would not be great to be in the playoffs with a QB on a rookie 4th round contract.

We are saying not paying a top guy because of some arbitrary $20 mil data point is pretty stupid.

Just structure it at $19.75 Mil and the magic data point has been hit!
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:06 PM   #80
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Mahomes will likely hit near 40M per his next contract. Will that mean they are done? Nope because heís not Stafford.
When Mahomes is getting paid it will make it considerably more difficult for KC, yes. They won't be able to keep everybody else. Does that mean you don't keep Mahomes? Of course not.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:07 PM   #81
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No one is arguing that it would not be great to be in the playoffs with a QB on a rookie 4th round contract.

We are saying not paying a top guy because of some arbitrary $20 mil data point is pretty stupid.

Just structure it at $19.75 Mil and the magic data point has been hit!
Stop focusing on the exact number. You could make the number a little lower or a little higher and the point would stand. A good QB on a rookie deal is a huge advantage.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:15 PM   #82
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A good QB on a rookie deal is a huge advantage.
I don't believe anyone said it wasn't? The graphic you posted wasn't specific to rookie deals.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:22 PM   #83
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The 1994 49's won the Super Bowl with Steve Young taking up 13.1% of their cap which would equate to $23 Mil based on the current salary cap.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:28 PM   #84
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I don't believe anyone said it wasn't? The graphic you posted wasn't specific to rookie deals.
Lol, okay. Just like nobody ever said that you can't win a Super Bowl with a $20mil QB. Or that $20mil was the magic number.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:31 PM   #85
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The 1994 49's won the Super Bowl with Steve Young taking up 13.1% of their cap which would equate to $23 Mil based on the current salary cap.
And what is it exactly that you think this 24 year old example proves?
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:33 PM   #86
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Lol, okay. Just like nobody ever said that you can't win a Super Bowl with a $20mil QB. Or that $20mil was the magic number.
I was commenting on the graphic you posted that said! -

"Fact: No QB making $20M per has EVER won a Super Bowl."

I don't know what you think I was commenting on.


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Old 01-11-2019, 12:41 PM   #87
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I was commenting on the graphic you posted that said! -

"Fact: No QB making $20M per has EVER won a Super Bowl."

I don't know what you think I was commenting on.



I thought that was what most of us were commenting on. .

FYI, Albert Breer is a tool.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:45 PM   #88
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I was commenting on the graphic you posted that said! -

"Fact: No QB making $20M per has EVER won a Super Bowl."

I don't know what you think I was commenting on.


I'm just not sure why you're so offended by this fact?!? Or what it suggests?
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:07 AM   #89
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Pretty much. Once again my theory regarding the NFL being mostly ran by retards has solid evidence backing it up.
Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:37 AM   #90
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Would the Rams have been able to sign....

Todd Gurley that is set to keep him under contract through 2023. It is reportedly a four-year, $60 million deal that includes $45 million in guarantees and a signing bonus of $20 million.
Aaron Donald signed a six-year contract extension with the Los Angeles Rams. The deal is worth $135 million, including $87 million guaranteed, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Ndamukong Suh to a one-year contract that, according to ESPNís Adam Schefter, is worth $14 million.
John Sullivan with a two-year contract that is worth up to $15 million?
Aqib Talib, and Pro Football Talk reported that Los Angeles will take on the entirety of the two years left on the cornerback's contract, set to pay him $11 million this year and $8 million in 2019.


Among others if not for the Jared Goff rookie contract, and if they did not sign those pieces, would the Rams be all of that this year?

Yes or no

I will be interested when they will be forced to sign Goff to a major contract, how they will do and how much of a "genius" Mcvay will be.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:44 AM   #91
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Would the Rams have been able to sign....

Todd Gurley that is set to keep him under contract through 2023. It is reportedly a four-year, $60 million deal that includes $45 million in guarantees and a signing bonus of $20 million.
Aaron Donald signed a six-year contract extension with the Los Angeles Rams. The deal is worth $135 million, including $87 million guaranteed, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Ndamukong Suh to a one-year contract that, according to ESPNís Adam Schefter, is worth $14 million.
John Sullivan with a two-year contract that is worth up to $15 million?
Aqib Talib, and Pro Football Talk reported that Los Angeles will take on the entirety of the two years left on the cornerback's contract, set to pay him $11 million this year and $8 million in 2019.


Among others if not for the Jared Goff rookie contract, and if they did not sign those pieces, would the Rams be all of that this year?

Yes or no

I will be interested when they will be forced to sign Goff to a major contract, how they will do and how much of a "genius" Mcvay will be.
Great QBs can make bad teams & coaches look good. They can cover up a lot of holes. Look at the colts when manning was there. As long as Goff plays at a high level, McVay will always look pretty genius.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:55 AM   #92
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Let’s look at the current colts. Lucks contract has a $24.4M cap hit this year. Followed by $27.5M the next year,then $28.4M then $21M. Even with those cap hits the colts are a team that will be competing for a SB for years to come.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:13 AM   #93
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Great QBs can make bad teams & coaches look good. They can cover up a lot of holes. Look at the colts when manning was there. As long as Goff plays at a high level, McVay will always look pretty genius.
Not until Luck's percentage of his contract came down, did they get back to the playoffs. We all heard how they could not surround him with talent. People say it was because they were all just stupid.

I am sure that is the case. Then again, I tend to think there were some realities that fly over the average fan's head.

Broncos fans still to this second think poopy pants Cutler would have been worth a ginormous contract that his agent Bus Cook demanded after he and Chiefs GM Scott Pioli pulled a power play on the newbie Mcdaniels.

To this second, Broncos fans actually think that jerk was a legit "franchise QB."

While they may or may not get great production out of Goff, that team would be fortunate to win 10 games without those KEY PIECES. As I said a few times. Aaron Rodgers could not get it done without KEY PIECES (defense in 2010 was 2nd PPG), Brees could not get it done despite great production without a better defense AND a more balanced offense.

Goff, will not if they do not have the pieces, which would have been impossible THIS YEAR if he did not have that rookie contract that allowed the Rams to go out and get those pieces.

Are you saying those key pieces really make no difference? Then please explain why Rodgers or Brees, or Luck could not get it done without "key pieces."
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:48 AM   #94
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As a business owner, this thread maybe seems to answer the wrong questions?

If you would ask me (as an owner) why I would pay a QB $28 M per year? To fill seats and sell jerseys. Two goals for a football team, but if Iím running the business, my main job is to fill seats and make money - Iíll happily pay the right player (or two) to accomplish that. Itís the reason why you keep guys like Stafford when it doesnít look like a chance in hell heíll ever win a Super Bowl.

If I run the business side, the second goal is to win a Super Bowl. The last time I counted, only one of 32 teams does that each year. I would consider that a ďbonusĒ way to cash in and sell more jerseys.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:05 AM   #95
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As a business owner, this thread maybe seems to answer the wrong questions?

If you would ask me (as an owner) why I would pay a QB $28 M per year? To fill seats and sell jerseys. Two goals for a football team, but if Iím running the business, my main job is to fill seats and make money - Iíll happily pay the right player (or two) to accomplish that. Itís the reason why you keep guys like Stafford when it doesnít look like a chance in hell heíll ever win a Super Bowl.

If I run the business side, the second goal is to win a Super Bowl. The last time I counted, only one of 32 teams does that each year. I would consider that a ďbonusĒ way to cash in and sell more jerseys.
Winning games and going to playoffs is better for business than the presence of a third tier QB.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:17 AM   #96
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Great QBs can make bad teams & coaches look good. They can cover up a lot of holes. Look at the colts when manning was there. As long as Goff plays at a high level, McVay will always look pretty genius.
You're missing a major part of the story here. Goff is not a "great" QB! But they'll soon have to pay him like one. And when they do, they'll most likely find it more difficult to field a great team. And that's one of the major pillars of what I'm saying here.

Last edited by TonyR; 01-12-2019 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:43 AM   #97
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Winning games and going to playoffs is better for business than the presence of a third tier QB.
I donít have any stats/facts to argue this, but arenít teams like the Redskins and Cowboys still the highest valued franchises? They have had lower tier QBs, and havenít really been great at winning super bowls lately.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:46 AM   #98
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Stop focusing on the exact number. You could make the number a little lower or a little higher and the point would stand. A good QB on a rookie deal is a huge advantage.
exactly.
teams looking to compete can spend more money to get the essential pieces to surround their low cost , game winning QB who still operates on a rookie contract.
seahawks, prime example.

This thread about high price QBs:
when teams try to justify their QB expenditures by having their QB throw the ball excessive amounts of times

like the vikes did with their 100 million dollar man, keeps them from focusing on winning football.
Once agin this week-end will prove;
it's not how many times you throw the ball,
winning comes from rush attempts and the team with the most RUSH ATTEMPTS will win every game.
of course you need a complimentary passing attack, but if you run more, you win !
see reality for details.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:48 AM   #99
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I donít have any stats/facts to argue this, but arenít teams like the Redskins and Cowboys still the highest valued franchises? They have had lower tier QBs, and havenít really been great at winning super bowls lately.
Dallas is #1 at $5bil. Washington is #5 at $3.1bil.
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