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Old 01-27-2018, 11:30 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
The Broncos are going to have two new starters on the OL next year. It's not a good group.
It's not good sure but it's not bottom 5 like some on here think it is.

A better QB who can grasp things at the LOS would make it adequate.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:31 AM   #52
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I was addressing your talk about QB play. That's not why our line sucks ass. It's just bad.
Leary is playing out of position, Bolles is as well and Paradis is the only real foundation piece.

Itís not the only reason but to say QB has little effect on it is foolish. I watched Beathard run for his life and get demolished. I watched Garrapolo sit in clean pockets.

It most definitely makes a difference. They make a difference before the ball is even snapped. I even saw a couple games where The OL looked functional with Brock. Lynch and Siemian can eat a bag of *****.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:34 AM   #53
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Watson is garbage, so is Stephenson, that's not QB play, they are just garbage.
Garcia should be a C. That's his best position, but we have Paradis so not much you can do with that other than move on from him and get a better OG.

McGovern hadn't played enough before now and is slowing developing into something, maybe a starter, maybe a reserve, we don't know yet.

Improved QB play will help the OL perform better but you still have to improve the OL.
Obviously the OL needs to improve, but with a better G play McGovern or a free agent and RT (biggest hole), and Bolles improving, the line would be better.

Better coaching would help too.

It's not Seahawks or Texans level bad.

Not to say a better QB makes everything better but the line looked ok at times with Brock. A guy like Cousins who has a quick release and is smart pre-snap could cover some of the holes the line has.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:37 AM   #54
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Nelson isnt close to a 3rd round talent, watch and read about him, dude is amazing.

Just because he's not a flashy type of player doesnt make him a bad pick potentially. Games are won and lost up front.
I donít mind Nelson at 5 just take him if heís your guy and donít get cute trading back for the sake of more picks. Didnít mean to say Nelson was a third round guy
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:37 AM   #55
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Itís not the only reason but to say QB has little effect on it is foolish. I watched Beathard run for his life and get demolished. I watched Garrapolo sit in clean pockets.

It most definitely makes a difference. They make a difference before the ball is even snapped. I even saw a couple games where The OL looked functional with Brock. Lynch and Siemian can eat a bag of *****.
Beathard is not an NFL QB, Garrapolo sat in clean pockets because he's an NFL QB and he revamped their offense.
The entire team praised him for his ability in their offense.

But next year, if they don't improve the OL you will see film on Jimmy and he's going to get smacked around.
You have to have talent at the OL or when you go against elite DL...they will destroy your offense.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:41 AM   #56
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Obviously the OL needs to improve, but with a better G play McGovern or a free agent and RT (biggest hole), and Bolles improving, the line would be better.

Better coaching would help too.

It's not Seahawks or Texans level bad.

Not to say a better QB makes everything better but the line looked ok at times with Brock. A guy like Cousins who has a quick release and is smart pre-snap could cover some of the holes the line has.
I'm not discounting QB as a help to a bad OL, I am saying you still need talent and improvement.
That's the issue with a lot of teams, they get QB's and the QB's are so good they make the offense look better than it is so they don't invest in the OL heavily enough and then eventually it catches up to them.

Look at New Orleans before they invested in the OL, Brees and the offense were potent but not lethal in previous years.
GB has issues along the OL and it's hurt them and Rodgers more recently.
Brady got smacked around real good to the point where NE had to bring back their old OL coach to help things a few years back.

Cam got smacked around to the point where Carolina had to bring in Kalil and revamp their OL.

QB play will help cover some issues but only for so long. Eventually either you have to improve the OL or your QB will get broken.

Teams are too damn good these days at watching film and devising ways to counteract the negatives.
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Old 01-27-2018, 01:36 PM   #57
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Obviously the OL needs to improve, but with a better G play McGovern or a free agent and RT (biggest hole), and Bolles improving, the line would be better.

Better coaching would help too.

It's not Seahawks or Texans level bad.

Not to say a better QB makes everything better but the line looked ok at times with Brock. A guy like Cousins who has a quick release and is smart pre-snap could cover some of the holes the line has.
Um, why do you think Kirk Cousins gets the ball out quick? He doesn't. It's kind of why he takes a lot of sacks. It's part of the reason his QB rating can look good when his QBR is low.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:18 PM   #58
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Um, why do you think Kirk Cousins gets the ball out quick? He doesn't. It's kind of why he takes a lot of sacks. It's part of the reason his QB rating can look good when his QBR is low.
He didn't take a lot of sacks in 2015 or 2016, and he was 6th in QBR both years. This year he got sacked a lot because their O-line was a mess and he dropped all the way to 16th in QBR.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:21 PM   #59
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Um, why do you think Kirk Cousins gets the ball out quick? He doesn't. It's kind of why he takes a lot of sacks. It's part of the reason his QB rating can look good when his QBR is low.
Cousins was sacked 23 teams in 16, 26 times in 15.

Washington's OL had a ton of injuries, i dont blame the sacks on him this year. More on their OL injuries and lack of receivers getting open. Bad situation.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:31 PM   #60
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**** that. Let's find our Wentz or Watson and have a fun 15 year rivalry with Mahomes and Carr, not a $30m 30 year old with one playoff appearance.
Sure. Is that easy? Does that guy exist in this draft? Because in the entire history of the Denver Broncos, weíve never drafted one
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:44 PM   #61
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Cousins was sacked 23 teams in 16, 26 times in 15.

Washington's OL had a ton of injuries, i dont blame the sacks on him this year. More on their OL injuries and lack of receivers getting open. Bad situation.
Yes, and then when it counted in the playoffs, he was sacked six times. So is what you're saying is that he needs his Pro Bowl offensive linemen in front of him to play well?

BTW, since you didn't comment on him actually getting the ball out quickly, he had one of the slowest release times in the league in 2016 and was middle of the pack in 2017 (tied with Siemien).

I'm guessing you haven't seen him play that much.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:50 PM   #62
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BTW, since you didn't comment on him actually getting the ball out quickly, he had one of the slowest release times in the league in 2016 and was middle of the pack in 2017 (tied with Siemien).
Did you also notice that he had a faster release time then Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Carson Wentz, just to name a few?
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:59 PM   #63
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Yes, and then when it counted in the playoffs, he was sacked six times. So is what you're saying is that he needs his Pro Bowl offensive linemen in front of him to play well?

BTW, since you didn't comment on him actually getting the ball out quickly, he had one of the slowest release times in the league in 2016 and was middle of the pack in 2017 (tied with Siemien).

I'm guessing you haven't seen him play that much.
WASH had the worst O line ever this year. They had two rookies and two street FAs playing for most of the year. It was beyond pathetic and any honest fan would readily admit that Cousins was F'ed because of it. Add into it his top TE was gone for most of the year, he was throwing to a guy who converted from QB to WR and a young Doctson, and it was a recipe for disaster.
Criticizing Cousins for this years performance is a bit...meh.
I get the hesitation with why signing him for that much coin is a bad idea though. I hear ya.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:02 PM   #64
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Yes, and then when it counted in the playoffs, he was sacked six times. So is what you're saying is that he needs his Pro Bowl offensive linemen in front of him to play well?

BTW, since you didn't comment on him actually getting the ball out quickly, he had one of the slowest release times in the league in 2016 and was middle of the pack in 2017 (tied with Siemien).

I'm guessing you haven't seen him play that much.
I dont think Cousins is elite, borderline top 10, throws picks at times, shrinks in big moments,i've heard it.

I've seen Cousins play plenty.

I'd prefer to find our Watson, Wentz, Wilson.

But i cant blame Cousins for the situation he had this past year. It was truly terrible.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:03 PM   #65
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Did you also notice that he had a faster release time then Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Carson Wentz, just to name a few?
Yes, up to 0.03 seconds faster! The difference is those quarterbacks move better in the pocket and win games.

Look, I'm not saying he's horrible. But if you want to pay a slightly above average QB franchise money and expect different results than the Redskins got, I just think that's silly.

Does also not concern you that the Redskins seem indifferent towards him and they have $52 million in cap space and a ton of disposable cash?
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:17 PM   #66
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Would rather get Mayfield in the 1st and Michel in the 2nd and have a dynamic duo for the next 5 yrs
Dilly dilly, also add Hernandez and Gallup. If we can't get Michel go get Ballage.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:21 PM   #67
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If Cousins has eyes and see's this staff he'd avoid us but, maybe money is all he wants.
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:52 PM   #68
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If Cousins has eyes and see's this staff he'd avoid us but, maybe money is all he wants.
Having a QB that can actually execute plays no matter whos they are would be good yes or no?
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:01 PM   #69
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Having a QB that can actually execute plays no matter whos they are would be good yes or no?
It would be good of course but, if you have a bad staff will you win anything but, 5-8 games.
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:04 PM   #70
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We were -17 in turnover differential last year. Bad staff or not, it's just about impossible to win with ****ty QB play.

Cousins has a very good TD/INT ratio. Less you turn it over, less your defense is on the field, when you play with a lead, you can do alot of things on defense.

And Cousins is proven, why would they need to develop him?
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:29 PM   #71
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We were -17 in turnover differential last year. Bad staff or not, it's just about impossible to win with ****ty QB play.

Cousins has a very good TD/INT ratio. Less you turn it over, less your defense is on the field, when you play with a lead, you can do alot of things on defense.

And Cousins is proven, why would they need to develop him?
Develop his ability to win games against .500 or better teams.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:46 PM   #72
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Develop his ability to win games against .500 or better teams.
Would help if he had a defense worth a ****, but why bother using context
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:21 PM   #73
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Would help if he had a defense worth a ****, but why bother using context
Plenty of other QB's have ****ty D's and still beat winning teams. Hell, they beat .500 teams and he can't even do that.
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:27 PM   #74
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If Broncos get cousins they need to trade back in first and pick up 3 players in the top 40 picks all in the trenches (at least two on offensive line)
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:46 PM   #75
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If Broncos get cousins they need to trade back in first and pick up 3 players in the top 40 picks all in the trenches (at least two on offensive line)
This is a draft where you need to stay top 10-12. We would need a QB needy team to bend over and let us **** them for that.
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