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Old 07-12-2018, 06:39 PM   #26
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A great argument for States rights if I’ve ever heard one...
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:42 PM   #27
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See KS.
I’ll take KS. Good farm ground.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:48 PM   #28
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We are not a pure democracy. We are 50 democracies with our own laws and governments. Every state gets represented. If you take California out of the mix, the other candidate won the other 49 states by a million votes.
Why would you take California out of the mix?
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:49 PM   #29
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I’ll take KS. Good farm ground.
Clueless as always...
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:51 PM   #30
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Why would you take California out of the mix?
You wouldn’t... it’s was a baseless point being made...
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #31
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Politicians would quit caring about the “flyover states.” They would all campaign in California and New York. Those people would decide everything and force rural Americans to pay taxes on their interests, urban improvements, etc.
This isn't what would happen at all. If the vote was based on the popular vote every vote would actually count more, especially the votes of those people living in states who are solidly for one party or the other. The current system disenfranchises voters much more than a popular vote would.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:54 PM   #32
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America’s electoral system gives the Republicans advantages over Democrats

The constitution was not designed for the two-party politics it unwittingly encouraged

Folks, don't be idiots like cut and Tonyels and read the article.

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Old 07-12-2018, 07:12 PM   #33
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This isn't what would happen at all. If the vote was based on the popular vote every vote would actually count more, especially the votes of those people living in states who are solidly for one party or the other. The current system disenfranchises voters much more than a popular vote would.
Politicians would campaign in the most populated places. I agree that California Republican votes would certainly count more than they do now. Nobody would care about the rural Democrats or Republicans though.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:21 PM   #34
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States volunteered to join the union. They’ve had most their rights taken away already. I guess the next step is to just abolish them altogether. I don’t think that’s the best way to govern a big diverse country from Florida to Alaska and Maine to Hawaii and the hundreds of millions of people in between.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:21 PM   #35
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need to move to a popular vote... Really.. I mean when one candidate wins by almost 3 million votes but loses the election something is terribly wrong.
Moving to a popular vote would never happen. The Republicans would never win another Presidential election. They now completely rely on those states with more cows than humans to decide what the people want.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:35 PM   #36
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States volunteered to join the union. They’ve had most their rights taken away already. I guess the next step is to just abolish them altogether. I don’t think that’s the best way to govern a big diverse country from Florida to Alaska and Maine to Hawaii and the hundreds of millions of people in between.
The best way to govern "a big diverse country" is to marginalize all the urban voters in favor of rural voters? You clearly aren't thinking this through. Just admit that you want to keep your unfair advantage. That would be more respectable than this nonsense.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:05 PM   #37
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The best way to govern "a big diverse country" is to marginalize all the urban voters in favor of rural voters? You clearly aren't thinking this through. Just admit that you want to keep your unfair advantage. That would be more respectable than this nonsense.
Maybe your way is best for a strong federal government with no need for state governments. I prefer strong state governments. They are closer to the people and less untouchable.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:38 PM   #38
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The smartest thing a country can do is put the most backward people in charge.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:41 PM   #39
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Maybe your way is best for a strong federal government with no need for state governments. I prefer strong state governments. They are closer to the people and less untouchable.
This is why a devoted constitutional justice on the Court might be a good thing for all of us, regardless of party. Let the State do the Lions share of government... scale the Federal Government back to intended constitutional scope... I don’t see that as all a bad thing...
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:52 PM   #40
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This is why a devoted constitutional justice on the Court might be a good thing for all of us, regardless of party. Let the State do the Lions share of government... scale the Federal Government back to intended constitutional scope... I don’t see that as all a bad thing...
I expect the USA to come apart within 30 years or so, like the USSR. Hell, we're still basically fighting the Civil War. Not to mention, we have the worst income inequality in history, our markets are casinos sitting on a derivatives volcano of $1.4 quadrillion, our health care system is collapsing, our government has become completely dysfunctional unable to respond to even the most trivial issues, corporations write the overwhelming majority of our laws for their own benefit basically sheering the American people like a bunch of hopeless serfs, climate change is going to create multiple trillion dollar disasters year after year, and meanwhile, Trump is president. Put a fork in it.

I imagine the US breaking up into regional states, PNW, NE, South, etc. Boy, without the blue states to bail them out, the red states will be, in the words of Trump, "****holes."
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:49 PM   #41
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Maybe your way is best for a strong federal government with no need for state governments. I prefer strong state governments. They are closer to the people and less untouchable.
The power of individual states would be damaged by a popular vote how exactly?
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:22 PM   #42
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one person one vote, everyone's vote counts the same.. that would be refreshing wouldn't it?
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:25 PM   #43
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one person one vote, everyone's vote counts the same.. that would be refreshing wouldn't it?
Nah man, turns out we were just joking when we spent all of the 20th century championing democracy...
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:45 PM   #44
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I expect the USA to come apart within 30 years or so, like the USSR. Hell, we're still basically fighting the Civil War. Not to mention, we have the worst income inequality in history, our markets are casinos sitting on a derivatives volcano of $1.4 quadrillion, our health care system is collapsing, our government has become completely dysfunctional unable to respond to even the most trivial issues, corporations write the overwhelming majority of our laws for their own benefit basically sheering the American people like a bunch of hopeless serfs, climate change is going to create multiple trillion dollar disasters year after year, and meanwhile, Trump is president. Put a fork in it.

I imagine the US breaking up into regional states, PNW, NE, South, etc. Boy, without the blue states to bail them out, the red states will be, in the words of Trump, "****holes."
Thirty years? That's pretty optimistic. I give it half that.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:23 AM   #45
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The 17th Amendment has been more damaging than the quirks of the electoral college.

A lot of bad things happened in 1913.

The 17th Amendment, the creation of the Federal Reserve, and the 16th Amendment which created the federal income tax all happened in 1913.
So the popular election of Senators is problem?
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:34 AM   #46
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We tried Arkie's idea - the Articles of Confederation. They were a FAIL.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:36 AM   #47
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As the Economist Briefing points out, when we designed the German and Japanese post-WWII governments, we didn't merely copy the Constitution.

Why?
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:42 AM   #48
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I expect the USA to come apart within 30 years or so, like the USSR. Hell, we're still basically fighting the Civil War. Not to mention, we have the worst income inequality in history, our markets are casinos sitting on a derivatives volcano of $1.4 quadrillion, our health care system is collapsing, our government has become completely dysfunctional unable to respond to even the most trivial issues, corporations write the overwhelming majority of our laws for their own benefit basically sheering the American people like a bunch of hopeless serfs, climate change is going to create multiple trillion dollar disasters year after year, and meanwhile, Trump is president. Put a fork in it.

I imagine the US breaking up into regional states, PNW, NE, South, etc. Boy, without the blue states to bail them out, the red states will be, in the words of Trump, "****holes."
all of that on a open ended credit line.... I cant really understand who thinks this country is on the right path, literally nothing has changed for 20 years...
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:04 AM   #49
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So the popular election of Senators is problem?
Definitely wasn't what was intended as far as the balancing of state and federal powers.

I think at the very least, it's given political parties a lot more power.
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