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Old 02-17-2018, 02:40 PM   #151
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Siemian was a guy who was drafted for one thing then exceeded that role beating out a 1st round pick they moved up to land. It was a mix of Siemian playing better than a 7th rounder should and Buston being a bust and not worth being drafted in the 7th round let alone the 1st.

No one drafted Siemian thinking he would start. He was a guy brought in to develop to maybe backup one day. John does this every year. He did the same with Kelly last year though that also had the value component in it because Kelly was hurt which hurt his value.

It is a good thing to draft a development QB every year.
I don't really hate Siemian. I saw him being what he is when he was drafted. He honestly should never have been drafted but for the purposes of avoiding a bidding war in UDFA it made sense.

He should never have ever been a factor in the QB competition but Elway wanted to be a prideful ass and acquire Sanchez on the cheap instead of trading some value for a legit starter.

In that scenario they should have simply thrown Lynch to the wolves and let him start but instead you have Kubiak who loves QB's like Siemian coach him up and start Siemian.
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:41 PM   #152
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The blame placed on siemian has always been befuddling. People hear act like he put a gun to Elways head to make him start. The only reason he started two years was the failure to find Anyone better. Why Paxton doesn’t get the hate is beyond me. He’s the guy who got all the money only to never take it seriously. Trevor was the one who worked hard and took the beating.
A lot of the hatred for Siemian comes from the way idiot fans wanted to anoint him as the next Tom Brady or that he was actually good and just needed the chance. It was like Tebow fans all over again.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:19 PM   #153
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A lot of the hatred for Siemian comes from the way idiot fans wanted to anoint him as the next Tom Brady or that he was actually good and just needed the chance. It was like Tebow fans all over again.
Yes. Blaming everyone else but him and Tebow, when clearly both were part of the problem.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:57 PM   #154
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I dislike his accuracy and completion % issues as well but you can see all the talent and tools when he plays.
He's a ****ing lottery ticket, if he hits...man, we could be talking about him as the best QB in the NFL. But the risk is so so high.
Agreed. Almost every analyst in the NFL says you can't improve a low completion rate. And we can't afford another project. I would much rather try to get Foles or Keenum or even Bradford or Tyler for a year or 2 and then grab Mayfield. Just like Sloter I much prefer a QB who has a chip on his shoulder vs a project.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:12 PM   #155
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Agreed. Almost every analyst in the NFL says you can't improve a low completion rate. And we can't afford another project. I would much rather try to get Foles or Keenum or even Bradford or Tyler for a year or 2 and then grab Mayfield. Just like Sloter I much prefer a QB who has a chip on his shoulder vs a project.
The completion % issue is a multi tier problem in most cases. College is far more open than the NFL is and it's hard for a QB who cannot hit open receivers in college to adjust to the windows in the NFL.

Of course, the same is true for QB's who always have wide open receivers in college and hit them at a high rate and then cannot adjust in the NFL.

Allen's problems with inaccuracy look strictly mechanical in nature to me. Which you can clean up and fix. The issue is, are they also mental? That's the main issue that is hardest to overcome.
It can look like one thing and be another.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:19 PM   #156
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A lot of the hatred for Siemian comes from the way idiot fans wanted to anoint him as the next Tom Brady or that he was actually good and just needed the chance. It was like Tebow fans all over again.
This is exactly it. I feel zero malice towards Siemian. He’s an under talented guy who got a chance. The apologies for his play from Maners was insufferable.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:26 PM   #157
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Agreed. Almost every analyst in the NFL says you can't improve a low completion rate. And we can't afford another project. I would much rather try to get Foles or Keenum or even Bradford or Tyler for a year or 2 and then grab Mayfield. Just like Sloter I much prefer a QB who has a chip on his shoulder vs a project.
Yet Brett Farve did. He did have a 52.4 comp% in college.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:45 PM   #158
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Yet Brett Farve did. He did have a 52.4 comp% in college.
Favre and a couple of others from the 90's were able to. Guys like Locker, Cook and etc others from this more current era of football have failed badly at it once they were in the NFL.

It's rare that it's done, I think it will be less rare as football progresses and college offenses ask QB's to take more and more shots down the field. But for now it's a major risk.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:09 PM   #159
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Favre and a couple of others from the 90's were able to. Guys like Locker, Cook and etc others from this more current era of football have failed badly at it once they were in the NFL.

It's rare that it's done, I think it will be less rare as football progresses and college offenses ask QB's to take more and more shots down the field. But for now it's a major risk.
Conner cook was a 4th rd pick with no where near the talent Josh Allen has and Locker was a spread offense QB.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:23 PM   #160
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Conner cook was a 4th rd pick with no where near the talent Josh Allen has and Locker was a spread offense QB.
Cook was also tabbed as a potential 1st round pick his draft year(for whatever God awful reason that was). Locker being a spread QB didn't impact his completion %, it was always bad, I think he had 1 season over 50% in his college career.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:27 PM   #161
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Rosen however is a dime dropper as well as panty dropper. Great deep accuracy as well. He looks legit to me. Darnold as well if we can't get Cousins.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:28 PM   #162
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Please Elway, save us from this mid tier crap. If you want a good QB, you will eventually have to pay the cost to be the boss.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:48 PM   #163
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I think the primary issue for Elway is that he does not believe any of the QB's in this draft will instantly start and allow the team to win enough to justify trading up for.

He wants an instant starter who he can rely on to get wins. That's most likely to come through FA as you will need an experienced QB for that.
Another issue is if he were to grab a QB in the draft high, will he win enough to warrant Joseph being around for another season? There are no more coaches he trusts or knows that he can hire.
Dennison is a complete non starter, Kubiak can't handle the rigors of NFL coaching anymore, so who does he hire? Who has Kubiak worked with that he can recommend as a HC? Almost no one short of Harbaugh getting fired by the Ravens.

Elway is trying to ensure he does not have to make a coaching change for a 3rd time in 5 years. It looks bad and it costs money along with setting the franchise back once again to have to find someone to change the culture.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:03 PM   #164
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A lot of the hatred for Siemian comes from the way idiot fans wanted to anoint him as the next Tom Brady or that he was actually good and just needed the chance. It was like Tebow fans all over again.
Who was that? Like two people?
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:10 PM   #165
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I think the primary issue for Elway is that he does not believe any of the QB's in this draft will instantly start and allow the team to win enough to justify trading up for.

He wants an instant starter who he can rely on to get wins. That's most likely to come through FA as you will need an experienced QB for that.
Another issue is if he were to grab a QB in the draft high, will he win enough to warrant Joseph being around for another season? There are no more coaches he trusts or knows that he can hire.
Dennison is a complete non starter, Kubiak can't handle the rigors of NFL coaching anymore, so who does he hire? Who has Kubiak worked with that he can recommend as a HC? Almost no one short of Harbaugh getting fired by the Ravens.

Elway is trying to ensure he does not have to make a coaching change for a 3rd time in 5 years. It looks bad and it costs money along with setting the franchise back once again to have to find someone to change the culture.
VJ will be gone by week5-6 and Kubiak will take the remains for the rest of the year. Next year the search will again be performed. This is another huge reason Cousins has zero chance of signing here. The coaching staff is even unstable.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:15 PM   #166
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I think the primary issue for Elway is that he does not believe any of the QB's in this draft will instantly start and allow the team to win enough to justify trading up for.

He wants an instant starter who he can rely on to get wins. That's most likely to come through FA as you will need an experienced QB for that.
Another issue is if he were to grab a QB in the draft high, will he win enough to warrant Joseph being around for another season? There are no more coaches he trusts or knows that he can hire.
Dennison is a complete non starter, Kubiak can't handle the rigors of NFL coaching anymore, so who does he hire? Who has Kubiak worked with that he can recommend as a HC? Almost no one short of Harbaugh getting fired by the Ravens.

Elway is trying to ensure he does not have to make a coaching change for a 3rd time in 5 years. It looks bad and it costs money along with setting the franchise back once again to have to find someone to change the culture.
I agree with what your saying. This is what I think Elway will do.
I think Elway just doesn't want a QB in the draft high. It's too hit and miss and he just completely missed on Paxil and looks like a moron. Arguably the greatest QB of all time can't draft a QB to save his life. I think he just does not under any circumstances want to go back to drafting a QB high in this draft.
I think he wants to do what he did before and worked great. Draft another Manning. It's easy, and it brought a SB. and even though every single sports analyst and expert said Cousins would NEVER be a FA.....here we are.
And now McCarron won his hearing and he's a UFA! It's too easy.
I just think Elway will do every possible thing including selling his daughter to Kirk to get him to sign in DEN, and if that doesn't work he will over pay for McCarron and draft a Kubiak approved White or a Falk or some QB later in the draft. This is a fairly deep draft at QB. I'm sure Kubiak has a guy in his sights.

I'm not saying Cousins is on Mannings level. But he's a franchise level, top 10 QB and that is exactly what Elway desperately needs.
Again, this isn't what I personally want neccessarily, but it's what I think Elway wants.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:22 PM   #167
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The blame placed on siemian has always been befuddling. People hear act like he put a gun to Elways head to make him start. The only reason he started two years was the failure to find Anyone better. Why Paxton doesn’t get the hate is beyond me. He’s the guy who got all the money only to never take it seriously. Trevor was the one who worked hard and took the beating.
Plus, Paxton cried on the sidelines!
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:09 PM   #168
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Who was that? Like two people?
There was more than 2. The entire summer was non stop debating if he was a legit starter or back up. I remember one clown said he’d take Siemian over QBs like Mariota. “But he’s a pro bowler!” He had 2 good weeks.
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:14 PM   #169
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Who was that? Like two people?
A thread full of them bashed me for months; I didn't mind, and a couple mods that created a filter that even made the name I gave him(deservedly so, he sucked) auto correct his name as well as a posters name whenever those letters were combined. But yeah 2 people...
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:15 PM   #170
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Who was that? Like two people?
Don't be obtuse, you know good and damn well it was a lot of people.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:01 PM   #171
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I think the primary issue for Elway is that he does not believe any of the QB's in this draft will instantly start and allow the team to win enough to justify trading up for.

He wants an instant starter who he can rely on to get wins. That's most likely to come through FA as you will need an experienced QB for that.
Another issue is if he were to grab a QB in the draft high, will he win enough to warrant Joseph being around for another season? There are no more coaches he trusts or knows that he can hire.
Dennison is a complete non starter, Kubiak can't handle the rigors of NFL coaching anymore, so who does he hire? Who has Kubiak worked with that he can recommend as a HC? Almost no one short of Harbaugh getting fired by the Ravens.

Elway is trying to ensure he does not have to make a coaching change for a 3rd time in 5 years. It looks bad and it costs money along with setting the franchise back once again to have to find someone to change the culture.
Yep. Good post, Scribe.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:02 PM   #172
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A thread full of them bashed me for months; I didn't mind, and a couple mods that created a filter that even made the name I gave him(deservedly so, he sucked) auto correct his name as well as a posters name whenever those letters were combined. But yeah 2 people...

Its juvenile to crack on someone's name. Plus ejaculate is gross. It skeeved me out to read through it, and mods cant ignore anyone. Otherwise your silly ass would have been ignored the first time you did it.

And bashed for months! Poor baby. How did you manage to make it through the harshness of words on a screen from strangers?

...

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Old 02-17-2018, 09:03 PM   #173
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I agree with what your saying. This is what I think Elway will do.
I think Elway just doesn't want a QB in the draft high. It's too hit and miss and he just completely missed on Paxil and looks like a moron. Arguably the greatest QB of all time can't draft a QB to save his life. I think he just does not under any circumstances want to go back to drafting a QB high in this draft.
I think he wants to do what he did before and worked great. Draft another Manning. It's easy, and it brought a SB. and even though every single sports analyst and expert said Cousins would NEVER be a FA.....here we are.
And now McCarron won his hearing and he's a UFA! It's too easy.
I just think Elway will do every possible thing including selling his daughter to Kirk to get him to sign in DEN, and if that doesn't work he will over pay for McCarron and draft a Kubiak approved White or a Falk or some QB later in the draft. This is a fairly deep draft at QB. I'm sure Kubiak has a guy in his sights.

I'm not saying Cousins is on Mannings level. But he's a franchise level, top 10 QB and that is exactly what Elway desperately needs.
Again, this isn't what I personally want neccessarily, but it's what I think Elway wants.
This is what I think will happen, too. Elway may have to go tier-2 FA QB due to salary cap concerns, though. Good post, socal.

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Old 02-17-2018, 09:07 PM   #174
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I agree with what your saying. This is what I think Elway will do.
I think Elway just doesn't want a QB in the draft high. It's too hit and miss and he just completely missed on Paxil and looks like a moron. Arguably the greatest QB of all time can't draft a QB to save his life. I think he just does not under any circumstances want to go back to drafting a QB high in this draft.
I think he wants to do what he did before and worked great. Draft another Manning. It's easy, and it brought a SB. and even though every single sports analyst and expert said Cousins would NEVER be a FA.....here we are.
And now McCarron won his hearing and he's a UFA! It's too easy.
I just think Elway will do every possible thing including selling his daughter to Kirk to get him to sign in DEN, and if that doesn't work he will over pay for McCarron and draft a Kubiak approved White or a Falk or some QB later in the draft. This is a fairly deep draft at QB. I'm sure Kubiak has a guy in his sights.

I'm not saying Cousins is on Mannings level. But he's a franchise level, top 10 QB and that is exactly what Elway desperately needs.
Again, this isn't what I personally want neccessarily, but it's what I think Elway wants.
Agreed, I think his plan in to win and not need to develop a guy at the same time.
The issue is that utilizing that method will lead to you needing to find a new QB every 4-5 years if not sooner.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:52 PM   #175
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Agreed, I think his plan in to win and not need to develop a guy at the same time.
The issue is that utilizing that method will lead to you needing to find a new QB every 4-5 years if not sooner.
Yeah, this draft though might be the one where Elway and Kubiak find a franchise QB in the 2nd or even 3rd round. It's got some serious talent.
I've given a couple of the obvious choices and one that I really didn't want to throw out there but I did. We're getting close to the mock draft.
I will just say they are there. Elway and his buddy need to hit on one.
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