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Old 02-12-2018, 04:03 PM   #26
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2015 Broncos defense was dominant and straight play makers.

Not sure I've seen a defense always come up when a play needed to be made.

It was insane.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:32 PM   #27
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2015 Broncos defense was dominant and straight play makers.

Not sure I've seen a defense always come up when a play needed to be made.

It was insane.
It was incredible, I think if our offense had even been remotely competent it would have statistically been the greatest ever.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:36 AM   #28
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It was incredible, I think if our offense had even been remotely competent it would have statistically been the greatest ever.
I thought the same as well, but that isn't true. I compared our 2015 Broncos with the 2000 Ravens.

Here are some stats for you. FYI, I did not include points given up when the defense was not on the field. So I actually went and looked at the box score game by game to get my stats.

In 20 games, the Ravens defense gave up 11 passing TDs, 6 rushing TD and 17 FG for a total of 153 points (TDs count for 6pts not 7).

In 19 games, the Broncos gave up 19 passing TDs, 13 rushing TD and 30 FG for a total of 282 pts.

The Ravens in 20 games, gave up 4804 yards on 255 drives. The Broncos gave up 5577 yards on 245 drives.

The Ravens averaged 18.8 yards per drive, while the Broncos gave up 22.8 yards per drive.

The argument was that Broncos offense gave the defense bad field position and I agree. The Ravens averaged 31.3 yards for every point given up. While the Broncos averaged 19.8 yrds for every point given up. That means the teams facing the Ravens had to drive 31.3 yrds before they were able to score. The teams facing the Broncos had to drive 11yrds less to score a point. That is basically a free set of downs right there.

However, we can't blame the Ravens defense because their offense is adequate. By taking the Ravens 4804 yards given up and dividing that by the Broncos 19.8 yards per point average, The Ravens would of given up only 242 points. So basically, if the Ravens offense was as crappy as the Broncos offense, they would of still only given up 242 points even though they played one more game than the Broncos did.

Our 2015 D was great, but that Ravens D was special. They had 4 shut outs in the regular season and a shutout in the SB. That was something very special.

Yes, I know the rules have changed, so I think I have a stat to compensate. Just need time to do some research. I am at work after all.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:21 AM   #29
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I thought the same as well, but that isn't true. I compared our 2015 Broncos with the 2000 Ravens.

Here are some stats for you. FYI, I did not include points given up when the defense was not on the field. So I actually went and looked at the box score game by game to get my stats.

In 20 games, the Ravens defense gave up 11 passing TDs, 6 rushing TD and 17 FG for a total of 153 points (TDs count for 6pts not 7).

In 19 games, the Broncos gave up 19 passing TDs, 13 rushing TD and 30 FG for a total of 282 pts.

The Ravens in 20 games, gave up 4804 yards on 255 drives. The Broncos gave up 5577 yards on 245 drives.

The Ravens averaged 18.8 yards per drive, while the Broncos gave up 22.8 yards per drive.

The argument was that Broncos offense gave the defense bad field position and I agree. The Ravens averaged 31.3 yards for every point given up. While the Broncos averaged 19.8 yrds for every point given up. That means the teams facing the Ravens had to drive 31.3 yrds before they were able to score. The teams facing the Broncos had to drive 11yrds less to score a point. That is basically a free set of downs right there.

However, we can't blame the Ravens defense because their offense is adequate. By taking the Ravens 4804 yards given up and dividing that by the Broncos 19.8 yards per point average, The Ravens would of given up only 242 points. So basically, if the Ravens offense was as crappy as the Broncos offense, they would of still only given up 242 points even though they played one more game than the Broncos did.

Our 2015 D was great, but that Ravens D was special. They had 4 shut outs in the regular season and a shutout in the SB. That was something very special.

Yes, I know the rules have changed, so I think I have a stat to compensate. Just need time to do some research. I am at work after all.
I guess some type of adjusted stat is needed, because all defenses give up more yards and points today. Before the rule changes, a QB throwing for 3,000 yards was considered a good season. Now it's 4,000 yards. It's no surprise that Manning, Brees, and Brady have made an assault on the record books.

A straight stats argument simply doesn't work. Imagine what the Broncos 2015 defense would do if they can just beat the crap out of the QB and harass WRs at will beyond five yards and as they are in the process of catching the ball. That would be a nightmare for offenses players.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:24 AM   #30
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The reason why I said that the '00 Ravens and '85 Bears have reached mythical status, which doesn't mean that I think that they are overrated in anyway, is because modern day defenses can be just as great but never equal the numbers that those defenses produced. So it's almost impossible to ever top those defenses because the stats will never be as great.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:53 AM   #31
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The reason why I said that the '00 Ravens and '85 Bears have reached mythical status, which doesn't mean that I think that they are overrated in anyway, is because modern day defenses can be just as great but never equal the numbers that those defenses produced. So it's almost impossible to ever top those defenses because the stats will never be as great.
The 85 bears D playoff run is undeniably great. Best ever playoff run for sure. Ravens were a good second, Playoff wise. That's a true measure.

2015 Broncos are #3 playoff wise. Played the best QB talent so it gives them a leg up on the 2002 Bucs.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:13 AM   #32
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The 85 bears D playoff run is undeniably great. Best ever playoff run for sure. Ravens were a good second, Playoff wise. That's a true measure.

2015 Broncos are #3 playoff wise. Played the best QB talent so it gives them a leg up on the 2002 Bucs.
The Ravens D gave up 15 points in their 4 game Superbowl run. A little over a FG per game. I hate the Ravens more than any other team including the teams in the AFCW, but I have to give them their props. Incredible D.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:17 AM   #33
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The Ravens D gave up 15 points in their 4 game Superbowl run. A little over a FG per game. I hate the Ravens more than any other team including the teams in the AFCW, but I have to give them their props. Incredible D.
Definitely and played decent QBs in McNair, Gannon, and Future HOFer Brian Griese.

The 1985 Bears gave up 0 points getting to the SB and only 10 in the game... with 7 being while up something like 45-3 in the 4th Q.

They both definitely deserve their fame.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:22 AM   #34
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The Ravens D gave up 15 points in their 4 game Superbowl run. A little over a FG per game. I hate the Ravens more than any other team including the teams in the AFCW, but I have to give them their props. Incredible D.
Check again please.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:34 AM   #35
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Check again please.
sure

FG to Broncos
TD and FG to the Titans
FG to the Raiders
Blanked the Giants

3+6+3+3=15

unless you blame the Ravens defense for giving up a kickoff return for a TD in the SB.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:35 AM   #36
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sure

FG to Broncos
TD and FG to the Titans
FG to the Raiders
Blanked the Giants

3+6+3+3=15

Giants got 7 on a kick return. Unless you mean what they allowed the offense. Either way, 15 or 23 points is impressive for 4 games.


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Old 02-13-2018, 09:39 AM   #37
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Giants got 7 on a kick return. Unless you mean what they allowed the offense. Either way, 15 or 23 points is impressive for 4 games.


In my earlier post, i stated that when the defense is on the field, how many points did they give up. This does not include, punts return for TD, KO return for TD, safeties, pick six, fumble recovery for TD. You can't blame the defense for special teams and offense screw ups.

So yes, when their defense and their opposing teams offense is on the field.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:46 AM   #38
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In my earlier post, i stated that when the defense is on the field, how many points did they give up. This does not include, punts return for TD, KO return for TD, safeties, pick six, fumble recovery for TD. You can't blame the defense for special teams and offense screw ups.

So yes, when their defense and their opposing teams offense is on the field.

You are right that you cant blame the defense for offensive turnovers turned into points or kick and punt returns, but they are still included in the points allowed category. With the 2000 Ravens to allow 23 points in 4 games is a crazy feat. You don't have to create a specific data set to make a point that they did a historic thing.

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Old 02-13-2018, 10:12 AM   #39
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In three playoff games, the '98 Broncos only allowed 18 points (four FGs and one garbage time TD). That's impressive, but that defense for some reason isn't that highly ranked.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:30 AM   #40
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In three playoff games, the '98 Broncos only allowed 18 points (four FGs and one garbage time TD). That's impressive, but that defense for some reason isn't that highly ranked.
The Offensive Superstars over shadowed the D.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:32 AM   #41
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You are right that you cant blame the defense for offensive turnovers turned into points or kick and punt returns, but they are still included in the points allowed category. With the 2000 Ravens to allow 23 points in 4 games is a crazy feat. You don't have to create a specific data set to make a point that they did a historic thing.

Special teams plays have to count for and against in Offensive and Defensive team stats.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:15 AM   #42
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The Offensive Superstars over shadowed the D.
This is true. I touched on that in my post on the previous page. That is also true for a number of the 49ers Super Bowl teams, and the early '90s Cowboys and mid '90s Packers. All were stacked on defense but were overshadowed by great offenses.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #43
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In three playoff games, the '98 Broncos only allowed 18 points (four FGs and one garbage time TD). That's impressive, but that defense for some reason isn't that highly ranked.
the TD that the Jets scored was when they took over inside Denver's 5 on a blocked punt as well.

I still maintain the 1998 team is the most dominant NFL team I've ever watched.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:36 PM   #44
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I just watched a replay of the 50 SB.
PFM totally sucked.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:19 PM   #45
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I just watched a replay of the 50 SB.
PFM totally sucked.
They won in spite of him. He didn't add anything positive to that game.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:13 PM   #46
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They won in spite of him. He didn't add anything positive to that game.
The 2pt conversion.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:09 PM   #47
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The 2pt conversion.
Credit that and the TD to Von Miller.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:38 PM   #48
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The 85 bears D playoff run is undeniably great. Best ever playoff run for sure. Ravens were a good second, Playoff wise. That's a true measure.

2015 Broncos are #3 playoff wise. Played the best QB talent so it gives them a leg up on the 2002 Bucs.
Playoff wise? Didn't they win 3 games in the regular season in a row without their team scoring a touchdown? They were great based on their offense being one of the worst ever to win a Superbowl (our team is up there too for SB 50). Ravens D was unbelievable. I would rank them just as good as the Bears D but for obvious reasons, Bears would be 1A over the Ravens 1B.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:14 AM   #49
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The QBs faced by those other legendary defenses in SB run.

85 Bears defense
Phil Simms
Dieter Brock
Tony Eason

2000 Raves QBs faced
Gus Ferrotte
Steve Mcnair
Rich Gannon
Kerry Collins

Broncos 2015
Roethlisbeger
Brady
Cam

Just sayin.....
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:42 AM   #50
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Playoff wise? Didn't they win 3 games in the regular season in a row without their team scoring a touchdown? They were great based on their offense being one of the worst ever to win a Superbowl (our team is up there too for SB 50). Ravens D was unbelievable. I would rank them just as good as the Bears D but for obvious reasons, Bears would be 1A over the Ravens 1B.
I'm saying the same thing as you but just using payoff stats as a barometer. Talking playoffs kinda removes any talk about bad division or bad opponents/injuries. playing big when it matters.
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