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Old 02-18-2018, 05:03 PM   #1
JCMElway
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Default Official 2018 Orange Mane Mock Draft DISCUSSION Thread

ALPHA LIST:

Adams, Josh
Adams, Tony
Adeniyi, Ola
Akins, Jordan
Allen, Josh
Allen, Kyle
Allen, Marcus
Anderson, Jaire
Anderson, Mark
Armstrong, Dorance
Aruna, Ade
Ateman, Marcell
Averett, Anthony
Avery, Genard
Baker, Jerome
Ballage, Kalen
Barkley, Saquon
Bates, Jesse
Berrios, Braxton
Blanding, Quin
Boettger, Ike
Bozeman, Bradley
Brown, Andrew
Brown, Orlando
Brown, Tony
Bryan, Taven
Burks, Oren
Burnett, Deontay
Cain, Deon
Callaway, Antonio
Campbell, Christian
Cantrell, Dylan
Cappa, Alex
Carlson, Daniel
Carrington, Darren
Carter, Lorenzo
Chachere, Andre
Chark, DJ
Christian, Geron
Chubb, Bradley
Chubb, Nick
Cichy, Jack
Clapp, Will
Cobbs, Simmie
Cole, Mason
Conklin, Tyler
Corbett, Austin
Coutee, Keke
Crosby, Tyrell
Cruikshank, Dane
Daniels, James
Darnold, Sam
Davenport, Marcus
Davis, Carlton
Dawson, Duke
Demby, Jamil
D'ickson, Michael
Edmonds, Chase
Edmunds, Terrell
Edmunds, Tremaine
Ejiofor, Duke
Elliot, Deshon
Evans, Rashaan
Facyson, Brandon
Falk, Luke
Fatukasi, Foley
Fitts, Kylie
Fitzpatrick, Minkah
Flowers, Dimitri
Fountain, Daurice
Frazier, Marcell
Freeman, Royce
Fumagalli, Troy
Gallup, Michael
Gates, Nick
Gaulden, Rashaan
Gesicki, Mike
Gilmore, Greg
Goedert, Dallas
Gossett, Colby
Green, Rasheem
Griffin, Shaquem
Guise, Derrius
Hall, PJ
Hamilton, Daesean
Hamilton, Shaun Dion
Hand, Da'Shawn
Harris, Davontae
Harrison, Desmond
Harrison, Ronnie
Haynes, Marquis
Hearn, Taylor
Henderson, Trayvon
Hernandez, Will
Herndon, Christopher
Hill, BJ
Hill, Holton
Hines, Nyheim
Holland, Jeff
Holmes, Jalyn
Hubbard, Sam
Hughes, Mike
Hurst, Hayden
Hurst, Maurice
Igwebuike, Godwin
Izzo, Ryan
Jackson, Donte
Jackson, Josh
Jackson, Lamar
Jackson, JC
Jackson, Justin
Jacobs, Leon
Jamerson, Natrell
James, Derwin
James, Richie
Jefferson, Malik
Jewell, Josey
Johnson, Kerryon
Johnson, Taron
Jones, Jamarco
Jones, Justin
Jones, Ronald
Jones, Sam (ASU)
Joseph, Michael
Kelly, John
Kelly, Kameron
Key, Arden
Kirk, Christian
Kiser, Micah
Landry, Harold
Lasley, Jordan
Lauletta, Kyle
Lazzard, Allen
Leonard, Darius
Lewis, Tyquan
Lindsay, Phillip
Litton, Chase
Maddox, Avonte
Madison, Cole
Mahon, Brendan
Mata'afa, Hercules
Mayfield, Baker
McCray, Mike
McDermott, K.C.
McFadden, Tavarus
McGlinchey, Mike
McIntosh, RJ
Mckenzie, Reggie "Kahlil"
Meeks, Quenton
Michel, Sony
Miller, Anthony
Miller, Kolton
Moore, DJ
Moore, J'Mon
Moore, Skai
Moore, Tarvarius
Neal, Siran
Nelson, Nick
Nelson, Quenton
Nickerson, Parry
Norton, Kewndrick
Noteboom, Joseph
Nnadi, Derrick
Nwosu, Uchenna
O'Daniel, Dorian
Okoronkwo, Ogbonnia
Oliver, Isaiah
O'Neill, Brian
Orkorafor, Chukwuma
Ostman, Joe
Parker, Brandon
Parris, Timon
Payne, Da'ron
Penny, Rashaad
Pettis, Dante
Phillips, Darius
Phillips, Harrison
Phillips, Skyler
Price, Billy
Pringle, Byron
Quessenberry, Scott
Quinn, Trey
Ragnow, Frank
Rankin, Martinas
Reaves, Jeremy
Reed, D.J.
Reid, Justin
Richardson, Will
Ridley, Calvin
Roberts, Austin
Robertson, Korey
Rolland-Jones, Ja'Von
Rosen, Josh
Rudolph, Mason
St. Brown, Equanimeous
Sam, Christian
Samuels, Jaylen
Scales, Tegray
Scarborough, Bo
Schultz, Dalton
Scott, Jaleel
Senat, Deadrin
Senat, Greg
Settle, Tim
Shepherd, Nathan
Sieler, Zach
Smith, Braden
Smith, Ito
Smith, Roquan
Smith, Tre'Quan
Smith, Tremon
Smythe, Durham
Speaks, Breeland
Stewart, MJ
Street, Kentavious
Stroman, Greg
Sutton, Courtland
Sweat, Josh
Tate, Auden
Teller, Wyatt
Teuhema, Maea
Thomas, Chad
Thomas, Ian
Thomas, Matthew
Thomas, Roc
Thompson, Trenton
Toliver, Kevin
Toth, Brett
Turray, Kimoko
Valdes-Scantling, Marquez
Vander Esch, Leighton
Victor, Azeem
Wadley, Akrum
Wallace, Levi
Walton, Mark
Ward, Denzel
Warner, Fred
Washington, James
Watson, Justin
Watts, Armani
Weah, Jester
Weathersby, Tony
Webb, Damon
Welsh, Sean
White, Kyzir
White, Mike
Whitehead, Jordan
Wieneke, Jake
Wilkins, Jordan
Williams, Connor
Williams, Tre
Wilson, Cedrick
Wims, Javon
Wynn, Isaiah
Vea, Vita
Yiadom, Isaac


A few suggestions/guidelines:

1. Please check the Mane every day during the draft. Everyone will have 12 hours to make their pick when they are on the clock. If you know you are going to be away from your PC/tablet/internet access, please send a priotity list of who you would like to select to myself, Bowlenball, Jebures, and/or eddie mac. We will not look at the PMs until you are on the clock. If we have your priority list and your time to draft comes around, your selection will be announced and the draft will proceed at a quick pace. You can post pics and a breakdown of your selection in the Selection thread when you get back on the Mane.

2. There will be an alphabetical list of players taken at the top of this thread. Please check that list before you pick. Please. If you have drafted someone who is already on the list, you may replace that pick, but the next drafter will be on the clock.

3. We start the draft on March 18, 8 AM EST. If drafters want to post their first picks before this deadline, that is absolutely fine. However, the official clock will not start until the 18th. Starting it on this date will allow the major players in free agency to get to their new teams.

4.All selections receive 12 hours on the clock (OTC), until we reach Tuesday April 17. At 12 AM on the 17th, we will go to a 6 hour clock for all selections. The 12 hours are a convenience for those whose pick comes up in the middle of the night. Please keep in mind that Bowlenball is up all night because of his location in the middle east. If you PM him at bedtime, he can easily post your pick at 4 AM. Also, everyone does have a right to a 12 hour clock, but this draft is much more fun if it moves at a quick pace. If you can, PLEASE, make your selection in a quick and timely fashion. ALSO, if you have 2 consecutive picks in a row (or 3 or 4 etc.) you DO NOT get more than 12 hours on the clock. When you draft, you only get 12 hours OTC, no matter how many consecutive selections that you have.

5. Please start trade talks with other drafters before you are on the clock. Nothing is more annoying when your time comes to draft and you announce "Hey! I wanna trade down!" If you have no deals on the table and it's your turn, DRAFT. (Do we remember BMORE?)

6. We will pause the draft once we get to the end of the 3rd round for the NFL to announce the Comp picks if needs be. As soon as they are announced, the draft is back on.

7. The mock draft order will be frozen on March 18 at 8 AM EST. The actual NFL teams may do some trades and shifting around, but we will keep whatever order is handed to us on the 18th. All times for the mock will be listed in EST if there is no other time zone designation. (I live in Michigan. Deal with it.)

8. We will have a Discussion thread (this thread) and a Selection thread. Please post all comments and discussion about the selections in this thread. The Selection thread may have your selections only. It is more fun if your selection post has a little description of your player with strengths, weaknesses, how the player fits on your team, a kick-ass photo, etc. We will also have a Trade discussion thread for that express purpose.

9. Please PM the person who is next up in the draft when your selection is complete to let them know they are OTC. Bowlen, Jebures, Eddie, and myself will also PM folks as we see them to let them know they are up. Please check your PMs frequently as that is how we are reminding you that you are OTC. If your PM box is full, empty it! Also, I am more than happy to text or FB message you when you are up. If this is a good way to reach you, please send me your cell number via PM. I promise not to harass you. (Well maybe a little.)

10. When you select, please record the time you made your selection so we know when the 12 hour clock starts for the next drafter. The Orange Mane clock on the posts has not always been accurate in the past.

11. We will have a pinch drafter for those who miss their picks to keep the integrity of the draft as it moves forward. The pinch drafter will draft for those who miss their picks: Immediately in rounds 1 and 2, after three picks go by in rounds 3, 4, and 5, and after six picks go by in rounds 6 and 7. Again, if you would like me to shoot you a text when you are OTC, I am more than willing to do that to keep the draft moving. Just PM me your cell number and we will set up communication! If you do not like who the pinch drafter takes for you, that's too bad. Make your selection while you are OTC (or get a PM priority list to us) and you won't have to worry about the dreaded pinch drafter. Selections the pinch drafter makes are final. This year, our pinch drafter is Nflbronco and he is hungry to make YOUR picks. Don't let him!!

12. We will have a UDFA round after the mock is complete run by Bowlenball.

13. As always, try not to suck or get butt hurt.

Last edited by JCMElway; 04-09-2018 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:38 PM   #2
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A few suggestions/guidelines:

1. Please check the Mane every day during the draft. Everyone will have 12 hours to make their pick when they are on the clock. If you know you are going to be away from your PC/tablet/internet access, please send a priotity list of who you would like to select to myself, Bowlenball, Jebures, and/or eddie mac. We will not look at the PMs until you are on the clock. If we have your priority list and your time to draft comes around, your selection will be announced and the draft will proceed at a quick pace. You can post pics and a breakdown of your selection in the Selection thread when you get back on the Mane.

2. There will be an alphabetical list of players taken at the top of this thread. Please check that list before you pick. Please. If you have drafted someone who is already on the list, you may replace that pick, but the next drafter will be on the clock.

3. We start the draft on March 18, 8 AM EST. If drafters want to post their first picks before this deadline, that is absolutely fine. However, the official clock will not start until the 18th. Starting it on this date will allow the major players in free agency to get to their new teams.

4.All selections receive 12 hours on the clock (OTC), until we reach Tuesday April 17. At 12 AM on the 17th, we will go to a 6 hour clock for all selections. The 12 hours are a convenience for those whose pick comes up in the middle of the night. Please keep in mind that Bowlenball is up all night because of his location in the middle east. If you PM him at bedtime, he can easily post your pick at 4 AM. Also, everyone does have a right to a 12 hour clock, but this draft is much more fun if it moves at a quick pace. If you can, PLEASE, make your selection in a quick and timely fashion. ALSO, if you have 2 consecutive picks in a row (or 3 or 4 etc.) you DO NOT get more than 12 hours on the clock. When you draft, you only get 12 hours OTC, no matter how many consecutive selections that you have.

5. Please start trade talks with other drafters before you are on the clock. Nothing is more annoying when your time comes to draft and you announce "Hey! I wanna trade down!" If you have no deals on the table and it's your turn, DRAFT. (Do we remember BMORE?)

6. We will pause the draft once we get to the end of the 3rd round for the NFL to announce the Comp picks if needs be. As soon as they are announced, the draft is back on.

7. The mock draft order will be frozen on March 18 at 8 AM EST. The actual NFL teams may do some trades and shifting around, but we will keep whatever order is handed to us on the 18th. All times for the mock will be listed in EST if there is no other time zone designation. (I live in Michigan. Deal with it.)

8. We will have a Discussion thread (this thread) and a Selection thread. Please post all comments and discussion about the selections in this thread. The Selection thread may have your selections only. It is more fun if your selection post has a little description of your player with strengths, weaknesses, how the player fits on your team, a kick-ass photo, etc. We will also have a Trade discussion thread for that express purpose.

9. Please PM the person who is next up in the draft when your selection is complete to let them know they are OTC. Bowlen, Jebures, Eddie, and myself will also PM folks as we see them to let them know they are up. Please check your PMs frequently as that is how we are reminding you that you are OTC. If your PM box is full, empty it! Also, I am more than happy to text or FB message you when you are up. If this is a good way to reach you, please send me your cell number via PM. I promise not to harass you. (Well maybe a little.)

10. When you select, please record the time you made your selection so we know when the 12 hour clock starts for the next drafter. The Orange Mane clock on the posts has not always been accurate in the past.

11. We will have a pinch drafter for those who miss their picks to keep the integrity of the draft as it moves forward. The pinch drafter will draft for those who miss their picks: Immediately in rounds 1 and 2, after three picks go by in rounds 3, 4, and 5, and after six picks go by in rounds 6 and 7. Again, if you would like me to shoot you a text when you are OTC, I am more than willing to do that to keep the draft moving. Just PM me your cell number and we will set up communication! If you do not like who the pinch drafter takes for you, that's too bad. Make your selection while you are OTC (or get a PM priority list to us) and you won't have to worry about the dreaded pinch drafter. Selections the pinch drafter makes are final. This year, our pinch drafter is Nflbronco and he is hungry to make YOUR picks. Don't let him!!

12. We will have a UDFA round after the mock is complete run by Bowlenball.

13. As always, try not to suck or get butt hurt.

Last edited by JCMElway; 03-06-2018 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:27 PM   #3
Mat'hir Uth Gan
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I'll start this off with a doozy.

Scribe, Requiem, I know you two like Lamar Jackson. I just wrapped up his tape. Have you watched these games?


QB LAMAR JACKSON LOUISVILLE

Clemson (2017): Playing shotgun. Arm strength looks solid, but accuracy is an issue, hes been off short and long early. Good speed as a runner, slippery through holes. Can get the ball where he wants it to go with a flick of his wrist. TD pass on a poor decision throw into the end zone on a scramble that somehow his guy was able to catch in a lot of traffic. The guy he was throwing to wasnt even the one that caught the ball. Very elusive in the pocket, avoids a lot of sacks. 1st half of this game has been a nightmare in terms of accuracy, not sure he could hit the broad side of a barn. Nothing is on target except the five yard dink and dunks. Pocket or rolling out, hes been off by a lot. Poor decision and pass trying to squeeze a ball in to zone coverage, receiver just kind of settled in, pass was way off and intercepted. 3rd quarter not much better, not sure he completed a pass longer than five yards. Clemson has completed shut down his scrambling and running, forcing him to stay in pocket and beat them passing the ball, he cant. Had two decent TD throws in the 4th with the game long out of reach. Hit a post route for a long play at the end of the game, lots of YAC, guy was wide open. He throws a nice ball and it gets there pretty quick, the problem is the accuracy. Terrible throw at goal line on curl route, CB had jumped it and should have pick sixd it. Kind of locks onto his first read. Missed wide open guy in the back of the end zone next play, ball was just thrown poorly. This was about as ugly a game as you can have as a QB.

NC State (2017): Playing shotgun. Looking like the Clemson tape again. Another high end defense that is not letting him scramble and forcing him to win with his arm. Had one decent throw on the run in the entire 1st quarter, mostly just had a few dink and dunks. Accuracy rearing its head again in the 2nd quarter. I like his arm strength, I like his quick release, and I like his athleticism. Im not sure this guy is remotely accurate to play QB in the NFL, hes missing wide open people by a mile. Hitting some slants, but even then the ball placement is behind at times. Really nice touch pass for a twenty yard TD down the side line, dropped it right in over the DB. Solid bullet pass on intermediate crossing route over middle, guy was wide open, but pass was on point. Air mailed a touch pass on seam route. Has mostly been accurate on short passes under ten yards, still has ball placement issues with those at times though. Throws a lot of balls flat footed by just flicking his wrist. Been far more effective with his scrambles and designed runs then his passing. Has missed a lot of open receivers in the intermediate to deep area this game, and he has missed them badly. Huge gain on short crossing route with massive YAC. Forced a throw on square in to double coverage, got tipped and pick sixd. Had a chance to tie or win on that drive. Two of the most inaccurate games Ive seen from a QB. Even when hes completing some of these passes, the placement is so bad the receivers are forced to fall down or go out of bounds. The two best defenses on his entire schedule for the year and he was awful. Decent leg work in this game, but awful QBing.

Mississippi State (2017): Playing shotgun. Missed high on crosser over middle, almost picked. Completely overthrew a guy standing still and wide open fifteen yards down the field, missed pass by a mile. For every decent roll out or running pass he completes, he bounces the next one. Completely air mailed fifteen yard crosser again, this time picked off. Quick out route, threw behind the guy, picked off. Looks great running the ball, can make someone miss and then in the open field hes a terror, but this is a QB, not a return specialist. Shovel pass for a TD, guy was uncovered. Throwing short medicine balls to his WRs and making them slow down to catch it. Nice accurate bullet pass on a slant in the end zone, fit it into a super small space, but TE dropped it. Needlessly threw a fast ball to his guy three yards away, went through his hands for an INT. Overall, I dont see a draftable QB. Hes far too inaccurate. Hes clearly a draftable athlete, just not sure what all he can do. Hes too small and skinny to hold up to being more than a committee RB, and I dont know if he can catch or not.
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:06 AM   #4
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And MuG brings the hammer.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:15 AM   #5
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Those Teddy Bridgewater-esque calves of his scare me....



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Old 02-19-2018, 09:27 AM   #6
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Yeah, Jackson’s kind of a mess. I find it amusing thar Scribe likes Jackson as an NFL QB but doesn’t like Mayfield.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:49 AM   #7
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Mug starting the disinformation campaign already.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
Mug starting the disinformation campaign already.
Yeah MUG is altering his writeups to scare people off from Jackson. I didn't know he loved Lamar Jackson so much.

I see you, MUG.
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1. Bradley Chubb, DE NC State
3A. Austin Corbett, G Nevada
3B. Marcell Ateman, WR Oklahoma State
4A. Parry Nickerson, CB Tulane
4B. Oren Burks, S/"Big Nickel"/OLB/Star Vanderbilt (MUG's No. 1 overall prospect)
5. Josh Adams, RB Notre Dame
6. Matthew Thomas, OLB Florida State
7A. Cole Madison, G Washington State
7B. Natrell Jamerson, FS Wisconsin
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:48 PM   #9
Mat'hir Uth Gan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
Yeah MUG is altering his writeups to scare people off from Jackson. I didn't know he loved Lamar Jackson so much.

I see you, MUG.
I mean, it's within the realm of possibility.


If anybody is thinking about drafting Jackson as a QB, they'll have to really feel comfortable with those three games. The two good defenses he faced (and the third best, FSU, he wasn't great in either), and their bowl game.

A good question is what was the general consensus on Michael Vick? Was his career a success, would you want a Vick as the QB of the Broncos? And while Jackson has a strong arm for sure, it's not Mike Vick strong, the accuracy issues are about the same though. Not sure he's quite as fast or elusive either, but it's at least close. I'm not sure the Falcons would do the Vick experiment all over again if they could go back in time. Maybe they would.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Yeah, Jacksons kind of a mess. I find it amusing thar Scribe likes Jackson as an NFL QB but doesnt like Mayfield.
I don't like either. But, I'd take Mayfield over Jackson every time, especially if I ran a WCO. Maybe read option attack, I take Jackson and just run every down until he gets injured.

I don't want either on Denver.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Yeah, Jacksons kind of a mess. I find it amusing thar Scribe likes Jackson as an NFL QB but doesnt like Mayfield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
I'll start this off with a doozy.

Scribe, Requiem, I know you two like Lamar Jackson. I just wrapped up his tape. Have you watched these games?


QB LAMAR JACKSON LOUISVILLE

Clemson (2017): Playing shotgun. Arm strength looks solid, but accuracy is an issue, hes been off short and long early. Good speed as a runner, slippery through holes. Can get the ball where he wants it to go with a flick of his wrist. TD pass on a poor decision throw into the end zone on a scramble that somehow his guy was able to catch in a lot of traffic. The guy he was throwing to wasnt even the one that caught the ball. Very elusive in the pocket, avoids a lot of sacks. 1st half of this game has been a nightmare in terms of accuracy, not sure he could hit the broad side of a barn. Nothing is on target except the five yard dink and dunks. Pocket or rolling out, hes been off by a lot. Poor decision and pass trying to squeeze a ball in to zone coverage, receiver just kind of settled in, pass was way off and intercepted. 3rd quarter not much better, not sure he completed a pass longer than five yards. Clemson has completed shut down his scrambling and running, forcing him to stay in pocket and beat them passing the ball, he cant. Had two decent TD throws in the 4th with the game long out of reach. Hit a post route for a long play at the end of the game, lots of YAC, guy was wide open. He throws a nice ball and it gets there pretty quick, the problem is the accuracy. Terrible throw at goal line on curl route, CB had jumped it and should have pick sixd it. Kind of locks onto his first read. Missed wide open guy in the back of the end zone next play, ball was just thrown poorly. This was about as ugly a game as you can have as a QB.

NC State (2017): Playing shotgun. Looking like the Clemson tape again. Another high end defense that is not letting him scramble and forcing him to win with his arm. Had one decent throw on the run in the entire 1st quarter, mostly just had a few dink and dunks. Accuracy rearing its head again in the 2nd quarter. I like his arm strength, I like his quick release, and I like his athleticism. Im not sure this guy is remotely accurate to play QB in the NFL, hes missing wide open people by a mile. Hitting some slants, but even then the ball placement is behind at times. Really nice touch pass for a twenty yard TD down the side line, dropped it right in over the DB. Solid bullet pass on intermediate crossing route over middle, guy was wide open, but pass was on point. Air mailed a touch pass on seam route. Has mostly been accurate on short passes under ten yards, still has ball placement issues with those at times though. Throws a lot of balls flat footed by just flicking his wrist. Been far more effective with his scrambles and designed runs then his passing. Has missed a lot of open receivers in the intermediate to deep area this game, and he has missed them badly. Huge gain on short crossing route with massive YAC. Forced a throw on square in to double coverage, got tipped and pick sixd. Had a chance to tie or win on that drive. Two of the most inaccurate games Ive seen from a QB. Even when hes completing some of these passes, the placement is so bad the receivers are forced to fall down or go out of bounds. The two best defenses on his entire schedule for the year and he was awful. Decent leg work in this game, but awful QBing.

Mississippi State (2017): Playing shotgun. Missed high on crosser over middle, almost picked. Completely overthrew a guy standing still and wide open fifteen yards down the field, missed pass by a mile. For every decent roll out or running pass he completes, he bounces the next one. Completely air mailed fifteen yard crosser again, this time picked off. Quick out route, threw behind the guy, picked off. Looks great running the ball, can make someone miss and then in the open field hes a terror, but this is a QB, not a return specialist. Shovel pass for a TD, guy was uncovered. Throwing short medicine balls to his WRs and making them slow down to catch it. Nice accurate bullet pass on a slant in the end zone, fit it into a super small space, but TE dropped it. Needlessly threw a fast ball to his guy three yards away, went through his hands for an INT. Overall, I dont see a draftable QB. Hes far too inaccurate. Hes clearly a draftable athlete, just not sure what all he can do. Hes too small and skinny to hold up to being more than a committee RB, and I dont know if he can catch or not.




Lamar Jackson
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
I don't like either. But, I'd take Mayfield over Jackson every time, especially if I ran a WCO. Maybe read option attack, I take Jackson and just run every down until he gets injured.

I don't want either on Denver.
Interesting, I actually like Jackson under center better then Mayfield. Mayfield feet coming out of center are very choppy.
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:32 PM   #13
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I think Jackson is very similar to RG3. He can be dangerous but the conundrum is durability in this league.
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:37 PM   #14
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I mean, it's within the realm of possibility.


If anybody is thinking about drafting Jackson as a QB, they'll have to really feel comfortable with those three games. The two good defenses he faced (and the third best, FSU, he wasn't great in either), and their bowl game.

A good question is what was the general consensus on Michael Vick? Was his career a success, would you want a Vick as the QB of the Broncos? And while Jackson has a strong arm for sure, it's not Mike Vick strong, the accuracy issues are about the same though. Not sure he's quite as fast or elusive either, but it's at least close. I'm not sure the Falcons would do the Vick experiment all over again if they could go back in time. Maybe they would.
The general consensus on Vick was that he never realized his potential.
There will always be the question of how good could he have been without the jail term. Would Petrino have been able to get him to tap into his potential and become even better? Would the offense have suited him more?
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:22 PM   #15
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Interesting, I actually like Jackson under center better then Mayfield. Mayfield feet coming out of center are very choppy.
Well, here's what I think of Mayfield as well...



QB BAKER MAYFIELD OKLAHOMA

Ohio State (2017): Playing Shotgun. Ball placement and accuracy sucked first drive. Looked best on his RPO. One of the best QBs so far as scanning all his reads and going through progressions. Pretty elusive in pocket, good enough arm strength to hit out routes on the run. Very calm in pocket, eyes always down field, can throw a fifty yard bomb with decent accuracy while running laterally, moon balls it a bit though. Ball placement is just off so far, making receivers break stride and catch behind them. Dink, dunk, dink, dunk. Too many wide open swing passes and quick hitters. The best thing about him so far is that he seems like he gets QB. He throws to where people blitz from, he scans the field well, he steps up and all around in the pocket, he generally throws the ball away at the last minute if he needs to. He just gets how to play the position. Arm strength on deep balls sucks. He can throw it long, but he has to throw a moon ball. Cant throw it long on any semblance of a rope. Throws a relatively decent back shoulder touch pass. What a disappointment this tape was. The offense is crap, everything is misdirection short tosses. His ball placement on the short throws was poor. If accuracy is his hallmark, it stunk to high heavens here. I mean, all his passes are relatively catchable, but thats because his average depth of target is like five yards. He just made those receivers on the short routes work more than they should have for those easy catches.

TCU (2017, G1): Playing shotgun. Flutter ball deep, its just too slow, any NFL caliber DB is going to eat that for lunch. Pretty good with the playaction and RPO stuff. Continues to be inaccurately accurate. Ball placement is causing his receivers issues on their routes, most of the time they are just running wide open. Best with touch passes to the sideline, had a nice rolling out TD on a flag route, or at least what should have been a TD. Decent velocity on intermediate and shorter routes, has a bit of a windup and really steps into the throws. Nice seam route TD for about twenty yards, just good touch and accuracy on that. I like him straight down the middle, but those are the easiest throws. He gets a ton of time to throw, can easily scan field and pick best option, gets to step up and throw in pocket. Post route that he really tried to heave but underthrew a bit, still got the completion. I dont think he has the arm strength but for intermediate and short routes. Would need someone to be wide open deep for him to moon ball it. Another seam route for a TD. Hes money down the middle. Very elusive in pocket, decent speed on scramble. Accuracy when he tries to throw his hardest is pretty bad. This was better tape, he does do some things well, but hes limited as a passer. The scheme and OL do cover up a lot.

Georgia (2017): Playing shotgun. Good accuracy on the short stuff in middle of field. Lots of RPO and playaction, does well with that. Easy TD on a solid pass on slant out against single high coverage. Deep ball continues to look bad, moon balls it and the accuracy is off. Looking good inside the numbers. Really needs the clean pocket to wind up and step into his throws to get good velocity on them. Continues to struggle with accuracy when he really tries to rifle it down the field, usually soars on him. Trick play receiving TD. Has been useful in short yardage on sneaks, now with his hands. INT off a pass that soared on him on intermediate crossing route, he usually is nails in that range across the middle. Decent ball on Go route, still takes too long to get there, but this was the best he has thrown. WR made leaping catch, DB didnt try to play the ball. Has elite field vision, especially when he scrambles, he seems to see everything and does a great job hitting a receiver that just uncovered down the field. Choked a bit late. Had some open receivers on short and intermediate routes he just missed, and then threw a terribly underthrown back shoulder attempt in the end zone for an INT. Overall, I see an intelligent west coast style QB with an average at best arm. Good mobility, makes good decisions, and has relatively good accuracy on the intermediate and in stuff, though his ball placement can use work. Biggest problem is the limitations of his arm, which very well might impact ball placement because he cant just rip it in there. Does some nice touch passes to the outside, but the outside is generally an area he needs to stay away from as DBs will break on his passes too easily. He reminds me of Colt McCoy. Do not want on Denver.
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Old 02-20-2018, 03:50 PM   #16
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Looks like Bill Polian hacked MUG's account!
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:41 PM   #17
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Hey, you guys watch those three games and defend his play. I'm sure he's looked great against the podunkville sabermonkeys, but I just want to see how he does against the better defenses he plays.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:14 PM   #18
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Hey, you guys watch those three games and defend his play. I'm sure he's looked great against the podunkville sabermonkeys, but I just want to see how he does against the better defenses he plays.
I am not disputing your analysis. I don't think Jackson is ready to play in the NFL, but I also think Mayfield is going to struggle big time trying to play under center. Neither is a QB I want on my team right now.

Jackson goes to the Pats or the Saints and has chance to learn to be NFL QB, he might be good. But if he starts right away he is in trouble.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:27 PM   #19
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And, away we go!
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:31 PM   #20
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Hey, you guys watch those three games and defend his play. I'm sure he's looked great against the podunkville sabermonkeys, but I just want to see how he does against the better defenses he plays.
I respect your opinion, don't agree with it on Jackson.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:24 PM   #21
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I respect your opinion, don't agree with it on Jackson.
Yeah, I know we all respect opposing views. I'm in the same boat. I legitimately want you and Requiem to watch those three games and tell me what you see. It's really bad.

Best case scenario, best case, is that he turns into Mike Vick and a team designs an offense around that. Vick was low completion, lots of running, and always seemingly dinged up. Exciting, sure. But can you build a championship team around that? I don't think you can.

The NFL has seen a lot of those types of QBs. When it was just Cunningham, Kordell, or Vick, the scrambling, athlete-first, QB second was rare and tough to prepare for. We've had a plethora of these types recently, and the NFL has figured them out. They generally just tell the defense to break the QB in half on any runs. And they do. Even someone as huge as Cam is getting destroyed physically. This style of play will not work.

And Lamar Jackson is not in the stratosphere of accuracy acceptable for the NFL. I can't imagine he'll throw at the Combine, I think he'll be too scared, but if he does, it should be a fantastically awful show, and then we'll start to hear a lot of the pundits catch up on how godawful inaccurate he is. He can't even hit 3 and 5 yard routes consistently. He's awful. Like, really awful.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:33 PM   #22
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QB's have never been my strong suit. Hopefully, Indy keeps Jacoby and I do not have to enter the lottery. I do like one QB a lot more than the rest, but you all will have to wait till the draft hear about it!
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:47 PM   #23
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3. We start the draft on March 16, 8 AM EST. If drafters want to post their first picks before this deadline, that is absolutely fine. However, the official clock will not start until the 16th. Starting it on this date will allow the major players in free agency to get to their new teams.
Omg we start on my birthday. Best present ever.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:11 PM   #24
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Yeah, I know we all respect opposing views. I'm in the same boat. I legitimately want you and Requiem to watch those three games and tell me what you see. It's really bad.

Best case scenario, best case, is that he turns into Mike Vick and a team designs an offense around that. Vick was low completion, lots of running, and always seemingly dinged up. Exciting, sure. But can you build a championship team around that? I don't think you can.

The NFL has seen a lot of those types of QBs. When it was just Cunningham, Kordell, or Vick, the scrambling, athlete-first, QB second was rare and tough to prepare for. We've had a plethora of these types recently, and the NFL has figured them out. They generally just tell the defense to break the QB in half on any runs. And they do. Even someone as huge as Cam is getting destroyed physically. This style of play will not work.

And Lamar Jackson is not in the stratosphere of accuracy acceptable for the NFL. I can't imagine he'll throw at the Combine, I think he'll be too scared, but if he does, it should be a fantastically awful show, and then we'll start to hear a lot of the pundits catch up on how godawful inaccurate he is. He can't even hit 3 and 5 yard routes consistently. He's awful. Like, really awful.
I have watched those games. I watched just about every Louisville game this year. What I see is 3 of the best defenses in the country tailoring to stop one of the best QB's in the country.
He ideally would have played better but he didn't and those 3 games where the ones where he could not carry the team on his back and win.

How many guys on Louisville are draft worthy this year? Where were the weapons? You have 3 guys outside of Jackson on offense worth a damn, 1 was a true freshman WR, the other was the featured WR for the first time as a junior and the other is a combo QB/RB/WR.
How many OL do you see with pro futures?

He has accuracy issues which are mostly mechanical because his arm is so damn strong.
My only worry about Jackson is him bulking up to be able to handle the rigors of a NFL season, especially his legs.

What I see is a young QB loaded with potential who needs refinement, same as I see with Darnold, Rosen, Allen, even Mayfield.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:47 AM   #25
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Omg we start on my birthday. Best present ever.
That's less than two full days after Free Agency begins. Free Agency begins on the 14th at 4pm. I'm not going to step on JCM's toes, but that's remarkably early. I suppose it is possible that the difference making talents all sign within the first 24 hours, and some absolutely will, but that's still really fast for me, especially since my team is likely to be active in signing free agents, so it's an area I am concerned with.
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