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Old 11-19-2018, 05:18 PM   #51
fontaine
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Every week it's the same crap with this guy.

He sucks coaching situational football when the decisions rest on his shoulders. Whether it's FG decisions, taking the ball away from Lindsay, paying passive vanilla defense, it's the same thing every week.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:55 PM   #52
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You're reaching.

A simple timeout by VJ would have given the replay guy plenty of time - that's what a challenge flag is for. It buys you a timeout at least. If there's a half decent chance off replay that it's successful, or you talk to your players, talk to Keenum etc then you can get a pretty good idea too.

VJ had plenty of time and opportunity and what's more could have taken a chance on a borderline but important call late in the game. He didn't. He blew it, and now he's compounding his mistake by blaming anyone but himself.
I'm not reaching. Most of what I described was reported. Joseph spoke about it in his press conference. The guys on multiple shows on The Fan talked about this. One of the shows even interviewed Adam Schefter, and he confirmed it the NFL's system. The Broncos' guy in the booth doesn't have control over viewing the replay.

Why would Joseph call a TO on this when the whole point of not challenging the play was so that they didn't risk the TO?

Joseph doesn't see the replay. He's relying on the guys in the booth. If what is being reported is true, then they only saw the replay once, and it was from the back angle. By the time the replay was shown on the broadcast again, both teams were lined up for the KO.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 PM   #53
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I'm not reaching. Most of what I described was reported. Joseph spoke about it in his press conference. The guys on multiple shows on The Fan talked about this. One of the shows even interviewed Adam Schefter, and he confirmed it the NFL's system. The Broncos' guy in the booth doesn't have control over viewing the replay.

Why would Joseph call a TO on this when the whole point of not challenging the play was so that they didn't risk the TO?

Joseph doesn't see the replay. He's relying on the guys in the booth. If what is being reported is true, then they only saw the replay once, and it was from the back angle. By the time the replay was shown on the broadcast again, both teams were lined up for the KO.



There was plenty of time. The TV delay is only like 3-5 seconds and I heard they watch a live feed. It wasnít like the playclock was on after it. I saw it right on the 1st replay seconds after. If you canít see that from the back angle like we could they shouldnít be up in that booth. This isnít the first time this team has problems with challenges. Itís been an ongoing issue for 2 years now. This play has happened countless times across the league(stretching ball to goal line with knees off ground) and has been challenged on time.

What kind of saves VJ and the booth is the fact the refs should call it as a score which is then automatically reviewed. They do that on TDs and TOs all the time. Thatís the whole reason they swallow whistles on a incomplete/fumble.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:16 PM   #54
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You're reaching.

A simple timeout by VJ would have given the replay guy plenty of time - that's what a challenge flag is for. It buys you a timeout at least. If there's a half decent chance off replay that it's successful, or you talk to your players, talk to Keenum etc then you can get a pretty good idea too.

VJ had plenty of time and opportunity and what's more could have taken a chance on a borderline but important call late in the game. He didn't. He blew it, and now he's compounding his mistake by blaming anyone but himself.
The whole reason he doesn't challenge is because it was likely that we would need the timeout.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:22 PM   #55
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There was plenty of time. The TV delay is only like 3-5 seconds and I heard they watch a live feed. It wasnít like the playclock was on after it. I saw it right on the 1st replay seconds after. If you canít see that from the back angle like we could they shouldnít be up in that booth. This isnít the first time this team has problems with challenges. Itís been an ongoing issue for 2 years now. This play has happened countless times across the league(stretching ball to goal line with knees off ground) and has been challenged on time.

What kind of saves VJ and the booth is the fact the refs should call it as a score which is then automatically reviewed. They do that on TDs and TOs all the time. Thatís the whole reason they swallow whistles on a incomplete/fumble.
I'm not seeing where there was time.

During the commercial break? If what has been reported is accurate, it doesn't sound like the Broncos had access to the replays during the commercial break.

Directly after the replay was shown again after the commercial break? I don't know if there was really time there either. If you have the game on DVR, go back and watch it. The replay is shown right right when the broadcast comes on, and after it is shown they cut to the game and the ball is being kicked. They don't show the players standing around waiting for the ref. It's literally replay ends, ball is being kicked. Even if there is a 3-5 second delay, that's still not going to be enough time to radio down to Joseph and have him throw the flag.

As for seeing it on TV before the commercial break, seeing that once wasn't clear enough to risk a TO. I thought it looked like a score. So much so that I wanted to see it again to confirm what was shown. But without seeing it again, challenging it would have been pretty much taking a guess.

The NFL should give the guy in the booth more access to the replays.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:56 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
You're reaching.

A simple timeout by VJ would have given the replay guy plenty of time - that's what a challenge flag is for. It buys you a timeout at least. If there's a half decent chance off replay that it's successful, or you talk to your players, talk to Keenum etc then you can get a pretty good idea too.

VJ had plenty of time and opportunity and what's more could have taken a chance on a borderline but important call late in the game. He didn't. He blew it, and now he's compounding his mistake by blaming anyone but himself.
VJ valued a time-out there based on how games usually go at the end for a Broncos.

Calling a timeout there for a ďmaybeĒ isnít very intelligent.

Coaches in the NFL in general arenít good at challenged for an obvious reason.

For one, theyíre not challenging anything based on what we get to see on TV.

But of course, you have feelings about VJ that needed to be validated so you will lie to yourself as much as possible.

People with lack of intelligence...
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:21 AM   #57
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VJ valued a time-out there based on how games usually go at the end for a Broncos.

Calling a timeout there for a ďmaybeĒ isnít very intelligent.

Coaches in the NFL in general arenít good at challenged for an obvious reason.

For one, theyíre not challenging anything based on what we get to see on TV.

But of course, you have feelings about VJ that needed to be validated so you will lie to yourself as much as possible.

People with lack of intelligence...
Challenging the play is a form of timeout or is that nuance lost on you? I like how you generalize coaches across the league. It's not just about strict percentages, it's about the impact of the outcome of the play itself.

And as I've made clear on this thread, it isn't about the decision, it's about VJ's reaction which was blame anybody else, refs, review system, etc, but nope don't blame me. Accountability right?

And yes I don't like VJ. Anybody that values an aggressive defense that plays to it's strengths, or an offense that emphasizes featuring your best players, shouldn't like VJ either.

You're welcome to actually like and respect VJ, just like your welcome to never actually present any valid reasons why that's the case. Something you've been excellent at.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:28 AM   #58
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Challenging the play is a form of timeout or is that nuance lost on you? I like how you generalize coaches across the league. It's not just about strict percentages, it's about the impact of the outcome of the play itself.

And as I've made clear on this thread, it isn't about the decision, it's about VJ's reaction which was blame anybody else, refs, review system, etc, but nope don't blame me. Accountability right?
Challenging the play and being wrong would COST a time out though. Are you discounting that as a possible outcome?

What in the world are you talking about? What do you mean it's not just about strict percentages? When you challenge a play, they will either reverse or keep the play result. What is this "impact of the outcome of the play itself"?

I'm not sure what picture you're trying to paint, but VJ has almostALWAYS taken the blame, almost to a fault. All the bad calls during the season he took fault to it and said we cannot commit those penalties regardless.

In this situation, he is right.

You're presented a situation as a HC. You do not get to see the replay and your guy up stairs says based on what he sees, there is not strong evidence the play will be overturned. Now you have to think about how valuable a timeout is, because you're going to be charged if you are wrong.

Yet fans are so unknowledgeable, stupid, and quick to point the finger don't realize this.

However, if refs call the play as a score, it is automatically reviewed. So they're not penalized at all for getting it wrong as long as they called it a score. Yet, coaches are penalized if they get it wrong.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:32 AM   #59
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Bill Belichick career challenges up until last year
42-104, 40.4%

Given all data, stats say if you challenge a play you're probably NOT going to win.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:40 AM   #60
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Challenging the play and being wrong would COST a time out though. Are you discounting that as a possible outcome?

What in the world are you talking about? What do you mean it's not just about strict percentages? When you challenge a play, they will either reverse or keep the play result. What is this "impact of the outcome of the play itself"?

I'm not sure what picture you're trying to paint, but VJ has almostALWAYS taken the blame, almost to a fault. All the bad calls during the season he took fault to it and said we cannot commit those penalties regardless.

In this situation, he is right.

You're presented a situation as a HC. You do not get to see the replay and your guy up stairs says based on what he sees, there is not strong evidence the play will be overturned. Now you have to think about how valuable a timeout is, because you're going to be charged if you are wrong.

Yet fans are so unknowledgeable, stupid, and quick to point the finger don't realize this.

However, if refs call the play as a score, it is automatically reviewed. So they're not penalized at all for getting it wrong as long as they called it a score. Yet, coaches are penalized if they get it wrong.
Accountability? Gimme a break. Lindsay/Sutton don't get the touches they should be getting while Keenum is throwing the ball 35 times a game, while our head coach makes dumb decisions every week like going for a 60+ yard FG with time left in the half to give the Texans a shot at scoring, not taking the easy FG this game to give us a 4 point lead, benching McGovern for Garcia only to realize a few drives in how wrong he was.

Every week there's something with this guy. Like I said you can keep making excuses for him and that's fine but it's pretty clear VJ is a conservative inexperienced version of John Fox and isn't getting any better.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:54 AM   #61
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Accountability? Gimme a break. Lindsay/Sutton don't get the touches they should be getting while Keenum is throwing the ball 35 times a game, while our head coach makes dumb decisions every week like going for a 60+ yard FG with time left in the half to give the Texans a shot at scoring, not taking the easy FG this game to give us a 4 point lead, benching McGovern for Garcia only to realize a few drives in how wrong he was.

Every week there's something with this guy. Like I said you can keep making excuses for him and that's fine but it's pretty clear VJ is a conservative inexperienced version of John Fox and isn't getting any better.
Well it appears you have shifted this whole conversation from talking about the 2 point conversation challenge to a whole different set because you realize any negative point you had in regards to that would be stupid after learning all the information.

My original thought about you was correct

Quote:
But of course, you have feelings about VJ that needed to be validated so you will lie to yourself as much as possible.

People with lack of intelligence...
Not taking the FG on the 4th and 1 wasn't exactly a clear cut choice. KC took the FG today and still lost by 3.

Touchdowns win football games these days. It's how Eagles won the SB too.

It's not about making excuses, it's about understanding situations to make an honest evaluation.

I get it, you have an opinion that is difficult for you to change due to your emotional ties to said opinion.

You monkey...

And you think VJ is more conservative than John Fox? Seriously?

How can you knock a guy for going aggressive on a 4th and 1 in red zone, a 61 yard field goal, throw too much - and in the same breath call him conservative?

What the **** is wrong with you guys?

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Old 11-20-2018, 06:28 AM   #62
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You're reaching.

A simple timeout by VJ would have given the replay guy plenty of time - that's what a challenge flag is for. It buys you a timeout at least. If there's a half decent chance off replay that it's successful, or you talk to your players, talk to Keenum etc then you can get a pretty good idea too.

VJ had plenty of time and opportunity and what's more could have taken a chance on a borderline but important call late in the game. He didn't. He blew it, and now he's compounding his mistake by blaming anyone but himself.
Just throw the flag if you are going to call timeout


If the guys upstairs say to grey what can VJ can do?

The NFL is required to play all big plays on the Jumbotron otherwise VJ has only the replay team to count on
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:51 AM   #63
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Challenging the play and being wrong would COST a time out though. Are you discounting that as a possible outcome?

What in the world are you talking about? What do you mean it's not just about strict percentages? When you challenge a play, they will either reverse or keep the play result. What is this "impact of the outcome of the play itself"?

I'm not sure what picture you're trying to paint, but VJ has almostALWAYS taken the blame, almost to a fault. All the bad calls during the season he took fault to it and said we cannot commit those penalties regardless.

In this situation, he is right.

You're presented a situation as a HC. You do not get to see the replay and your guy up stairs says based on what he sees, there is not strong evidence the play will be overturned. Now you have to think about how valuable a timeout is, because you're going to be charged if you are wrong.

Yet fans are so unknowledgeable, stupid, and quick to point the finger don't realize this.

However, if refs call the play as a score, it is automatically reviewed. So they're not penalized at all for getting it wrong as long as they called it a score. Yet, coaches are penalized if they get it wrong.
An official told Case that they might have gotten the call wrong and Denver should challenge.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:59 AM   #64
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How did we at home have the view and this staff/upstairs didnít?



Standard VJ response. Placing blame elsewhere for his ****up.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:15 PM   #65
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Joe Woods not rushing Von Miller won the game for Denver.

On the INT and then on the last play for LAC, showed zero coverage, 6 man pass rush and then Miller knew they would try some sort of screen play and blew it up dropping back into coverage.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:37 PM   #66
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Joe Woods not rushing Von Miller won the game for Denver.

On the INT and then on the last play for LAC, showed zero coverage, 6 man pass rush and then Miller knew they would try some sort of screen play and blew it up dropping back into coverage.
Most OLBs are given discretion to read and play the screen. I don't think that was a coaching decision.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:53 PM   #67
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Just throw the flag if you are going to call timeout


If the guys upstairs say to grey what can VJ can do?

The NFL is required to play all big plays on the Jumbotron otherwise VJ has only the replay team to count on
They didnít play that play on Jumbotron.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:54 PM   #68
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An official told Case that they might have gotten the call wrong and Denver should challenge.
That doesnít really mean anything.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
Standard VJ response. Placing blame elsewhere for his ****up.
Iím unsure how itís his ď**** upĒ when heís not even the one looking at replays.

Literally all the information he has is ďnot strong clear evidence it will be overturnedĒ
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:14 PM   #70
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Iím unsure how itís his ď**** upĒ when heís not even the one looking at replays.

Literally all the information he has is ďnot strong clear evidence it will be overturnedĒ
Well, you are an idiot.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:37 PM   #71
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On the Von int...

Watch will parks. He forced Rivers into that bad throw. Awesome job.
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