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Old 03-18-2018, 11:49 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by barryr View Post
Nelson or Chubb look like the pick if they stay put. The Broncos just have money to a QB and they need to protect him so Nelson has the edge. If they could deal Ray for say a 2nd or 3rd, then Chubb could be the pick. Bottom line is the Broncos cannot have Garcia starting at guard next year and Nelson is seen as an instant Pro Bowl type. That is hard to pass up for a team with needs on the OL.
They are not going to trade Ray who was a 1st round pick just a few years ago for a 2nd or 3rd. That is insane.

They need the depth, and the way they like to rotate and keep the pass rushers fresh Chubb would be a great addition.

1st line of Von and Ray with the 2nd line of Chubb and Barrett would be awesome.

Plus it covers us for when Barrett walks next year when they can't pay him.

I think in this case with at least 2 QB's being gone by the time we pick the play is for Chubb. Barkley would be nice too but pass rushers are hard to find and the best RB in draft last year was taken in the 3rd round.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:51 AM   #77
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Garcia wouldn't start even if the Broncos didn't pick Nelson. McGovern would be the starting Guard opposite of Leary. But if some team signs Paradis and the Broncos don't match, McGovern would probably slide to Center and then yeah, we would need a Guard.
Yep, Garcia lost his job when they said that they were moving Leary back to LG, and they have said all last year how much they love McGovern.

The only bad thing about taking Chubb is that they have to find a 2nd tier OL player to fill out the RT.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:52 AM   #78
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Yep, Garcia lost his job when they said that they were moving Leary back to LG, and they have said all last year how much they love McGovern.

The only bad thing about taking Chubb is that they have to find a 2nd tier OL player to fill out the RT.
They’re gonna have to find that no matter what
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:53 AM   #79
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Highly doubtful Cleveland goes DE in the 1st round.They have Garrett starting at DE and Ogbah who they drafted in the 2nd round in 2016 starting at the other DE spot.They like Ogbah a lot.Also just signed DE Chris Smith to a 3 yr deal.
Plus they need playmakers on O. Their run game has been crap for a long time.

I think they could go Barkley in the 1st depending on who they like at QB and sweat it out to take the QB at 4 or flip it if they are in love with one QB who they think will be taken.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:53 AM   #80
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You don't kick Ray inside, but you go with the rotation they had when Ware was here. Ray/Miller start in base and Shaq/Chubb will rotate in to keep them fresh.

On passing downs you come with a NASCAR package that gets them on field at the same time.
You realize you disagreed with me... then suggested exactly what I said
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:56 AM   #81
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Don't forget Sheppard and Engram. With Barkley they'd have a potential explosive offense. It all hinges on Eli though. He's been average-below average the past few years. Was that coaching?
mcdrool actually bumped his career up when he became OC, but the step back was when he became the HC, additionally, the entire passing game revolved around OBJ and he was out for the majority of the year. they could take Nelson at 2 but I think they would trade out and address the line with those later first round pick.

i only see them going after Chubb/Rosen if they plan on releasing/trading Eli (to Jags, should have been done this year) to retool/rebuild. they spent a ton of money on the D last (?) offseason.

Eli costs 11.5 in '19 with a dead cap of 6. it's doable if he were released after this year, but that would be a massive mistake, imho. this is the year to move on from him and gain they made a commitment to him, two year window to win. he needs an explosive RB to to rely on OBJ and the pass game for Eli to survive, addressing the line as well.

edit: it is too bad we couldn't have made a deal with the Gmen for Eli. he costs less, is a pro, and has done it for years - with some off years - but he can play clutch and it is a 2 year window. it prob is a wash between Case and maybe they fear Eli has dropped off to much but thats part of the risk reward, price tag and experience.

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Old 03-18-2018, 12:00 PM   #82
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You realize you disagreed with me... then suggested exactly what I said
The way I read your post was that you wanted to kick Ray to ILB in base packages. So it would be Chubb, Ray, Marshall, Von. Which I don't agree with.

On some pass downs, I could see Denver pulling the DE and replacing them with the Outside LB and Marshall. With Wolfe being the lone DL.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:02 PM   #83
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The way I read your post was that you wanted to kick Ray to ILB in base packages. So it would be Chubb, Ray, Marshall, Von. Which I don't agree with.

On some pass downs, I could see Denver pulling the DE and replacing them with the Outside LB and Marshall. With Wolfe being the lone DL.
No. To d-tackle on third and long so he can pass rush against guards. Where he’s better anyway. NASCAR package

Chubb/ray/Wolfe (walker)/von
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:06 PM   #84
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No. To d-tackle on third and long so he can pass rush against guards. Where he’s better anyway. NASCAR package

Chubb/ray/Wolfe (walker)/von
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:44 PM   #85
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You don't kick Ray inside, but you go with the rotation they had when Ware was here. Ray/Miller start in base and Shaq/Chubb will rotate in to keep them fresh.

On passing downs you come with a NASCAR package that gets them on field at the same time.
Ray has been a natural at rushing inside since College, some of his best rushes and sacks in college were from stunting inside and showing as a DT on certain downs.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:50 PM   #86
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Ray has been a natural at rushing inside since College, some of his best rushes and sacks in college were from stunting inside and showing as a DT on certain downs.
We all agree. He thought I meant inside LB.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:50 PM   #87
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Once I get over my man crush on Rosen, I realize Chubb is the way to roll. Chubb, and somehow dream sequence, Hernandez, I'm cool.
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:20 PM   #88
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Bust!
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:42 PM   #89
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Ray has been a natural at rushing inside since College, some of his best rushes and sacks in college were from stunting inside and showing as a DT on certain downs.
Woods has to get better at putting guys in position that they do best. Wolf admitted on the radio that Woods was not doing that early last year, but said that later in the year, he started to make those adjustments. After getting his “rookie” year under his belt, I look for Woods to make more adjustments in plays AND personnel than he did last year.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:36 PM   #90
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Plus they need playmakers on O. Their run game has been crap for a long time.

I think they could go Barkley in the 1st depending on who they like at QB and sweat it out to take the QB at 4 or flip it if they are in love with one QB who they think will be taken.
Everyone thinks this, but when you look at the numbers, they tell a different story.

Last year:

12th in rushing yds/game.
14th in yds/carry.

Sure there's room for improvement, but they weren't crap. By definition, they were in the top half of the league in rushing.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #91
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Woods has to get better at putting guys in position that they do best. Wolf admitted on the radio that Woods was not doing that early last year, but said that later in the year, he started to make those adjustments. After getting his “rookie” year under his belt, I look for Woods to make more adjustments in plays AND personnel than he did last year.
That was visible early on. We still need to play less zone though.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:39 PM   #92
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Its weird you guys see him standing up. He is the same size as Bosa, 270lbs, and is stout against the run.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:41 PM   #93
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And he's definitely better against the run then the pass. I really don't see much of a fit in Denver.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:47 PM   #94
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I think Chubb represents a luxury pick. Great fun to drool over, but not a "necessity" position. The Oline is the highest need currently. Keenum eases the QB issue, although the trauma of last year and the year before slapped Elway up side the head forcefully. For that reason, if Rosen or Mayfield are available, picking either one would be a greatly satisfying move to Elway and Kubiak. If so, I would expect a later attempt to trade back into the low first to try to get an OT, Alternatively taking one in the second would be reasonable. If neither Mayfield or Rosen are there, it would seem to me to be 50/50 if the Broncos took Nelson or trade back.
It's not a luxury pick. We miss Ware's help, especially to Von. Ray is running out of time to prove his worth. I do agree the OL is the highest need right now but I think can be had at the next pick. Chubb would be the BPA and a position of need.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:48 PM   #95
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Woods has to get better at putting guys in position that they do best. Wolf admitted on the radio that Woods was not doing that early last year, but said that later in the year, he started to make those adjustments. After getting his “rookie” year under his belt, I look for Woods to make more adjustments in plays AND personnel than he did last year.
Damn, I hope so.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:48 PM   #96
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And he's definitely better against the run then the pass. I really don't see much of a fit in Denver.
So you think Chubb is rated so highly for just his run stuffing ability? OK.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:50 PM   #97
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Everyone thinks this, but when you look at the numbers, they tell a different story.

Last year:

12th in rushing yds/game.
14th in yds/carry.

Sure there's room for improvement, but they weren't crap. By definition, they were in the top half of the league in rushing.
Statistics can be deceiving. How many of those yards came near the end of games in which they were hopelessly behind and defenses played prevent? This team hasn't had a really reliable running game in several years. Look how many times they were failing on 3rd and short. Look how many times they had to throw the ball on the goal line because they didn't trust their line to move anyone out.

Plug this earth mover in and those problems disappear. This guy's got a nasty temperament. He goes after people trying to drive them into the ground like Bolles does. The two of them would change the whole character of this line and maybe the culture on the team. We need to get more physical.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:50 PM   #98
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They are not going to trade Ray who was a 1st round pick just a few years ago for a 2nd or 3rd. That is insane.

They need the depth, and the way they like to rotate and keep the pass rushers fresh Chubb would be a great addition.

1st line of Von and Ray with the 2nd line of Chubb and Barrett would be awesome.

Plus it covers us for when Barrett walks next year when they can't pay him.

I think in this case with at least 2 QB's being gone by the time we pick the play is for Chubb. Barkley would be nice too but pass rushers are hard to find and the best RB in draft last year was taken in the 3rd round.
They will have to decide on Ray soon as well and right now, reportedly are not too eager to extend him.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:55 PM   #99
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Yep, Garcia lost his job when they said that they were moving Leary back to LG, and they have said all last year how much they love McGovern.

The only bad thing about taking Chubb is that they have to find a 2nd tier OL player to fill out the RT.
Which I don't understand since Garcia played his best as a rookie, which was mostly at RG, alternating with Vasquez.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:17 PM   #100
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It's not a luxury pick. We miss Ware's help, especially to Von. Ray is running out of time to prove his worth. I do agree the OL is the highest need right now but I think can be had at the next pick. Chubb would be the BPA and a position of need.
It's debatable that Chubb is the BPA if you look at him vs. Nelson, and if Barkley is there, he's not. If he turns out to be as good as Von, in 4 years he'll be getting probably $30 million/year. You can pay an entire O-line for that.

How successful has this team been in the recent past in drafting O-linemen during the Elway GM era?

Look at the guys they've taken...Schoefield (3rd, "Turnstile" = total bust), Garcia (4th, mediocre at best), McGovern (5th, still unknown/clock is ticking), Sambrailo (2nd, total bust), Paradis (6th, solid starter), Painter (6th, who?), Blake (4th, bust), Franklin (2nd, wouldn't pay him)...the jury is still out on McGovern, but other than the Paradis pick, the rest of these guys were either outright busts, major disapointments, or in the case of Franklin, we let him walk after his rookie deal was up.

So given the axiom that if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting, how much confidence would you say you have in us getting something right outside of us using the 5th pick on the guy scouts say is the best guard, possibly the best O-lineman, to come out in the last 7 or 8 years or more?

The way I read it...roughly 12.5%.
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