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Old 08-11-2018, 12:12 AM   #51
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If Keenum plays like he has in camp all year we will have a franchise QB. I'm not on the Keenum bandwagon, but he looks a lot better than I thought he would.

At the end of the day, if we have a competent QB and a dominant defense our SB window is open forna decade and Elway made the right choice.

If Darnold or Rosen become the next Brady or Manning then Elway will look stupid.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:55 AM   #52
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What could they do. They liked two qbs. They both got drafted.

Darnold looked good, but if he starts he'll break Peyton's rookie interception record.
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:03 AM   #53
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Yeah, maybe if we had a franchise qb we could break records on offense and get slaughtered in the super bowl, so much fun the first time! Or we could get another Ware and like win the super bowl again.
THIS.
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:20 AM   #54
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Yeah, maybe if we had a franchise qb we could break records on offense and get slaughtered in the super bowl, so much fun the first time! Or we could get another Ware and like win the super bowl again.
Last I checked that team had a HOF QB. It's nice to put a great defense together like the 2015 but it takes several years of hitting on picks. When they all come together you need the injury bug to stay away and they don't stay together long in the FA era. The window may never open up if you have a bad offense. Very short window where a QB keeps your window open for awhile.

People love to compare the QB VS Defense argument using 2015 when the defense was healthy for the playoffs. What people don't mention is how many players Denver lost on defense in 2013. If fully healthy Denver may have been able to get Seattle off the field on 3rd down.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:25 AM   #55
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Last I checked that team had a HOF QB. It's nice to put a great defense together like the 2015 but it takes several years of hitting on picks. When they all come together you need the injury bug to stay away and they don't stay together long in the FA era. The window may never open up if you have a bad offense. Very short window where a QB keeps your window open for awhile.

People love to compare the QB VS Defense argument using 2015 when the defense was healthy for the playoffs. What people don't mention is how many players Denver lost on defense in 2013. If fully healthy Denver may have been able to get Seattle off the field on 3rd down.
Even before the injuries set in the 2013 Defense was suspect. They gave up 48 points to the Cowboys, 39 to the Colts...and that was the first half of the season when they were healthy.

They gave up 25 points per game.

I don't think having Von, Kevin Vickerson and Rahim Moore were going to make up a 35 point loss by themselves.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:36 AM   #56
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Even before the injuries set in the 2013 Defense was suspect. They gave up 48 points to the Cowboys, 39 to the Colts...and that was the first half of the season when they were healthy.

They gave up 25 points per game.

I don't think having Von, Kevin Vickerson and Rahim Moore were going to make up a 35 point loss by themselves.
Von might have been difference maker.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:43 AM   #57
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Yeah, maybe if we had a franchise qb we could break records on offense and get slaughtered in the super bowl, so much fun the first time! Or we could get another Ware and like win the super bowl again.
Great defenses winning the SB are rare. If you have a franchise QB, your team is pretty confident they will be fighting for playoff spot year in and out. Something you can not be sure of with good/great defense. See last years team.

There is reason QB are highest paid players, over drafted and rules are tweaked to protect them. And even with historic defense, you still need some plays from the QB to win a game. Those plays get overlooked but the keys to the victories.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:51 AM   #58
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NY media Waaaay over the top
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:59 AM   #59
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:09 AM   #60
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Even before the injuries set in the 2013 Defense was suspect. They gave up 48 points to the Cowboys, 39 to the Colts...and that was the first half of the season when they were healthy.

They gave up 25 points per game.

I don't think having Von, Kevin Vickerson and Rahim Moore were going to make up a 35 point loss by themselves.
Ok we will put you down as Von is just another player.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:26 AM   #61
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Yeah, maybe if we had a franchise qb we could break records on offense and get slaughtered in the super bowl, so much fun the first time! Or we could get another Ware and like win the super bowl again.
There is the weirdest mindset around this place that the way we last won the Super Bowl is the only way to win a Super Bowl. For years it was dumb stuff like "we need a fullback like Howard Griffith to replicate our Super Bowl wins"

Now it is dumb stuff like this. There are many ways to win it. Last year it was 41-33. Some times defense wins it, sometimes offense. The key is to get in the tournament and get hot/some luck (and, yes, we benefited from luck in 2015, most Super Bowl winners do) and the best way to ensure you get in the tournament consistently over a 15 year period is to have a franchise QB. That is where the value comes in - not necessarily in a one off final game.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:41 AM   #62
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I mean, I guess this could just be an anomaly -

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Old 08-11-2018, 11:50 AM   #63
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Great defenses winning the SB are rare. If you have a franchise QB, your team is pretty confident they will be fighting for playoff spot year in and out. Something you can not be sure of with good/great defense. See last years team.

There is reason QB are highest paid players, over drafted and rules are tweaked to protect them. And even with historic defense, you still need some plays from the QB to win a game. Those plays get overlooked but the keys to the victories.
When a #1 offense meets a #1 defense in the SB how many times does the #1 offense win? Rarely. Our defense last year was bottom of the stat pile in passing and in 2016 in running defense.

Back before the 2000's it was rare to have a GREAT defense. That's why QB's were the highest paid and it's carried over to mediocre QB's now. But in the 2000's you have the Raven's with a backup QB but a great defense x2.
Even without a GREAT defense but a very good defense, the NY Giants twice against a GREAT offense, the Steelers in 2008, except for a coaches stupid decision the Seahawks, and the Broncos. A GREAT defense can make a mediocre offense look good. And who just wants the playoffs? The Chiefs? That's why I'm so giddy about the Raiders and Chiefs focusing on their offense and letting their defense degrade.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:03 PM   #64
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When a #1 offense meets a #1 defense in the SB how many times does the #1 offense win? Rarely. Our defense last year was bottom of the stat pile in passing and in 2016 in running defense.

Back before the 2000's it was rare to have a GREAT defense. That's why QB's were the highest paid and it's carried over to mediocre QB's now. But in the 2000's you have the Raven's with a backup QB but a great defense x2.
Even without a GREAT defense but a very good defense, the NY Giants twice against a GREAT offense, the Steelers in 2008, except for a coaches stupid decision the Seahawks, and the Broncos. A GREAT defense can make a mediocre offense look good. And who just wants the playoffs? The Chiefs? That's why I'm so giddy about the Raiders and Chiefs focusing on their offense and letting their defense degrade.
Our pass defense was 4th last season. We had top 5 units against the run and pass. We couldnt generate a pass rush or get turnovers. Mostly because we were behind a lot.

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Old 08-11-2018, 02:06 PM   #65
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I mean, I guess this could just be an anomaly -


The anomalies apparently are Rich Gannon in 2002 and Joe Flacco in 2012. Otherwise...the AFC has had two really good QBs and an android built in Belicheck's basement.

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Old 08-11-2018, 02:13 PM   #66
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It was fun to watch Chucky dust off his playbook from 2002.

Lots of drags and timing routes with some simple power runs thrown in.

Raiders might be in a lot of games, just don't see those old guys being a big threat.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #67
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When a #1 offense meets a #1 defense in the SB how many times does the #1 offense win? Rarely. Our defense last year was bottom of the stat pile in passing and in 2016 in running defense.

Back before the 2000's it was rare to have a GREAT defense. That's why QB's were the highest paid and it's carried over to mediocre QB's now. But in the 2000's you have the Raven's with a backup QB but a great defense x2.
Even without a GREAT defense but a very good defense, the NY Giants twice against a GREAT offense, the Steelers in 2008, except for a coaches stupid decision the Seahawks, and the Broncos. A GREAT defense can make a mediocre offense look good. And who just wants the playoffs? The Chiefs? That's why I'm so giddy about the Raiders and Chiefs focusing on their offense and letting their defense degrade.
The number 2 defense with a top offense has won a **** load. And how they rank the defenses is flawed in itself. A great example is the 55 to 10 SB. According to stats Denver had a better D but we all know that 48er D was way better along with the Giants.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:20 PM   #68
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Kerryon is a bad mother shut yo mouth.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:29 PM   #69
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You talking Kerryon Johnson for the Lions?
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:25 PM   #70
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Last I checked that team had a HOF QB. It's nice to put a great defense together like the 2015 but it takes several years of hitting on picks. When they all come together you need the injury bug to stay away and they don't stay together long in the FA era. The window may never open up if you have a bad offense. Very short window where a QB keeps your window open for awhile.

People love to compare the QB VS Defense argument using 2015 when the defense was healthy for the playoffs. What people don't mention is how many players Denver lost on defense in 2013. If fully healthy Denver may have been able to get Seattle off the field on 3rd down.
How many draft classes would it be worth if you had a gay rangers HOF qb available - 2 full classes? 3?

Obviously Sam is worth a1 and 2 twos if he is a HOF QB but what if he’s just decent? What if he’s Matt Ryan or Stafford?

Knowing what you know now after a single PS game against backups would you trade Chubb Sutton and next years two for Sam?
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:37 PM   #71
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How many draft classes would it be worth if you had a gay rangers HOF qb available - 2 full classes? 3?

Obviously Sam is worth a1 and 2 twos if he is a HOF QB but what if he’s just decent? What if he’s Matt Ryan or Stafford?

Knowing what you know now after a single PS game against backups would you trade Chubb Sutton and next years two for Sam?
If you read my initial post I said IF he turns out to be a franchise guy Denver will be wishing they paid the price. Yea if he is Ryan or Stafford it would be worth it. QB is the only position that effects multiple positions. You get a good one FAs also ahow up on your doorstep. I also said I like how the draft turned out getting Chubb but for me it's always QB first.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:14 PM   #72
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Our pass defense was 4th last season. We had top 5 units against the run and pass. We couldnt generate a pass rush or get turnovers. Mostly because we were behind a lot.

Our pass defense was #4 in passing yards. Yards. So overrated. They were 28th in passing TD's, 24th in INTs, 26th in turnovers, 3 of the most important stats for a D.
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