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Old 04-11-2018, 08:02 PM   #151
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You guys and your PFF. PFF is the sound a dry fart makes when you sit down on the johnny flusher. Why anyone uses them as a reference is beyond me? Try using your own eyes and judgment. Trust what you see, not what someone else thinks you should see.
Thereís really no difference between what Keenum did on the field and PFF grades. His play outside the pocket and under pressure can be seen by any average fan. Itís not something you need to understand an algorithm for. Your analysis otherwise?
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:14 PM   #152
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Thereís really no difference between what Keenum did on the field and PFF grades. His play outside the pocket and under pressure can be seen by any average fan. Itís not something you need to understand an algorithm for. Your analysis otherwise?
In the few Vikings games I watched, I thought Keenum played well. Whether that carries over to a new team and cast of characters remains to be seen. I am interested to see how they build an offense to fit his strengths.

Heís not the biggest guy in the world so I am already nervous about his durability, especially, if the Oline does not drastically improve. Which brings me to my point.

I think they have to draft a QB to be ready to roll. Very few starting QBs make it through an entire NFL season. I have no confidence in Lynch as a #2. I have not seen enough of Kelly other than college highlights to form an opinion. In todayís NFL, teams that have 2 guys who can start and win have a big advantage.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:19 PM   #153
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That was me. You asked me my profession, and I did not answer.
Sorry Price, I donít think that was me. I donít ask personal questions like that.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:26 PM   #154
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In the few Vikings games I watched, I thought Keenum played well. Whether that carries over to a new team and cast of characters remains to be seen. I am interested to see how they build an offense to fit his strengths.

Heís not the biggest guy in the world so I am already nervous about his durability, especially, if the Oline does not drastically improve. Which brings me to my point.

I think they have to draft a QB to be ready to roll. Very few starting QBs make it through an entire NFL season. I have no confidence in Lynch as a #2. I have not seen enough of Kelly other than college highlights to form an opinion. In todayís NFL, teams that have 2 guys who can start and win have a big advantage.
Iím confident in Musgrave. Heís underrated in QB development and offense building around his QBs. But as Iíve said, I donít claim we canít do better than Keenum, I just think it will be a good bit harder to do so than many assume. I think heís second tier. Thatís actually pretty hard to get even if you pick a guy in the first. If we draft a guy is he gonna be first tier/elite? If the brass thinks so, take him by all means. But is he another second tier guy or worse? No. My point being, Keenum is pretty good and itís pretty damn hard to find better than that. Donít feel desperate to draft someone and only do so if youíre convinced itís gonna be top tier. Otherwise, try to build around Keenum.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:28 PM   #155
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Iím confident in Musgrave. Heís underrated in QB development and offense building around his QBs. But as Iíve said, I donít claim we canít do better than Keenum, I just think it will be a good bit harder to do so than many assume. I think heís second tier. Thatís actually pretty hard to get even if you pick a guy in the first. If we draft a guy is he gonna be first tier/elite? If the brass thinks so, take him by all means. But is he another second tier guy or worse? No. My point being, Keenum is pretty good and itís pretty damn hard to find better than that. Donít feel desperate to draft someone and only do so if youíre convinced itís gonna be top tier. Otherwise, try to build around Keenum.
Keenum is a mediocre QB who had a good season. You guys act like that doesnít happen fairly often.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:34 PM   #156
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Keenum is a mediocre QB who had a good season. You guys act like that doesnít happen fairly often.
Well, it doesnít happen fairly often. I mean, depending on how you define ďfairly often.Ē Who are the QBs in, say, the last five years who were otherwise mediocre but played like they were a top 5-10 QB for a one random, full season in the middle of their career (if it occurs ďfairly oftenĒ you shouldnít have to go back further).

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Old 04-11-2018, 08:48 PM   #157
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Well, it doesnít happen fairly often. I mean, depending on how you define ďfairly often.Ē Who are the QBs in, say, the last five years who were otherwise mediocre but played like they were better than that for a full season (if it occurs ďfairly oftenĒ you shouldnít have to go back further).


2016 Mariota...2017 Bortles...2017 Alex Smith...2015 Derek Carr
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:49 PM   #158
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Well, it doesnít happen fairly often. I mean, depending on how you define ďfairly often.Ē Who are the QBs in, say, the last five years who were otherwise mediocre but played like they were a top 5-10 QB for a one random, full season in the middle of their career (if it occurs ďfairly oftenĒ you shouldnít have to go back further).
Keenum wasnít a top 5 QB last year ya loon. And Drunk answered for me pretty well. You guys remember that nice season Fitzpatrick had like five years ago? Yeah. Also: Dak Prescott.

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Old 04-11-2018, 08:53 PM   #159
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2016 Mariota...2017 Bortles...2017 Alex Smith...2015 Derek Carr
None of those guys fit the profile. All but Smith are guys who were highly drafted and had promising early seasons. And Smith (who was also highly drafted but a late bloomer) has had multiple above average seasons, not one outlier.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:55 PM   #160
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None of those guys fit the profile. All but Smith are guys who were highly drafted and had promising early seasons. And Smith (who was also highly drafted but a late bloomer) has had multiple above average seasons, not one outlier.
They are mediocre QBís who had good seasons. No one cares about your ďprofileĒ.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:55 PM   #161
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Keenum wasnít a top 5 QB last year ya loon. And Drunk answered for me pretty well. You guys remember that nice season Fitzpatrick had like five years ago? Yeah. Also: Dak Prescott.
Keenum was by most measures. At least top ten. 2nd Iím QBR. Donít like QBR? 5th in traditional QB rating. Donít like that? 9th in PFF rating. So, yeah, he was by most measure a top top 5-10 QB. And, no, DB2 didnít give adequate answers.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:56 PM   #162
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None of those guys fit the profile. All but Smith are guys who were highly drafted and had promising early seasons. And Smith (who was also highly drafted but a late bloomer) has had multiple above average seasons, not one outlier.

You edited your post. I responded correctly to the post you first put up, and itís in my post. You added to it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:57 PM   #163
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Keenum was by most measures. At least top ten. 2nd Iím QBR. Donít like QBR? 5th in traditional QB rating. Donít like that? 9th in PFF rating. So, yeah, he was by most measure a top top 5-10 QB. And, no, DB2 didnít give adequate answers.

Lmao. When you move the goal posts and edit in extra ingredients it changes the answer.


I gave you good examples of what you first asked until you edited extra **** into it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:58 PM   #164
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They are mediocre QBís who had good seasons. No one cares about your ďprofileĒ.
Sorry that you canít find a guy who mid-career, after little chance, had a top tier caliber season. But you canít. Mariota was the 2nd overall pick and started from day one. Carrís started from day one and had two above average seasons. Smith has had multiple above-average seasons. If you donít see why that isnít the same thing then you are, frankly, stupid. Goddamn stupid.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:59 PM   #165
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Keenum was by most measures. At least top ten. 2nd Iím QBR. Donít like QBR? 5th in traditional QB rating. Donít like that? 9th in PFF rating. So, yeah, he was by most measure a top top 5-10 QB. And, no, DB2 didnít give adequate answers.
Itís incredibly irrational to ignore every other year of a guyís career and to act like one good season is the norm.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:00 PM   #166
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Sorry that you canít find a guy who mid-career, after little chance, had a top tier caliber season. But you canít. Mariota was the 2nd overall pick and started from day one. Carrís started from day one and had two above average seasons. Smith has had multiple above-average seasons. If you donít see why that isnít the same thing then you are, frankly, stupid. Goddamn stupid.
Ryan Fitzpatrick. And stop throwing the word stupid around you irrational monkey.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:00 PM   #167
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Sorry that you canít find a guy who mid-career, after little chance, had a top tier caliber season. But you canít. Mariota was the 2nd overall pick and started from day one. Carrís started from day one and had two above average seasons. Smith has had multiple above-average seasons. If you donít see why that isnít the same thing then you are, frankly, stupid. Goddamn stupid.


Gtfo. Thatís not what you asked in post 158 that I quoted. Agas post 159 has your edit and it clearly would have a different answer.

I answered what you originally asked just fine.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:04 PM   #168
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Lmao. When you move the goal posts and edit in extra ingredients it changes the answer.


I gave you good examples of what you first asked until you edited extra **** into it.
I didnít move the goal posts. How did I? Your examples didnít meet the criteria at all. How does Mariota, for instance, meet the criteria when he was the second overall pick, started from day one, and has only played three seasons? How does Smith when heís had multiple above average seasons? Type smilies all you want. You didnít meet the criteria. None of your examples are guys with a mid-career top 5-10 season after only a scattered amount of starts and suddenly plays to 5-10 level (only Smith played to that level at any point, but he wasnít a one-hit wonder).
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:10 PM   #169
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Gtfo. Thatís not what you asked in post 158 that I quoted. Agas post 159 has your edit and it clearly would have a different answer.

I answered what you originally asked just fine.
I said ďwho were the QBs who were otherwise mediocre.Ē How was Mariota ďotherwise mediocreĒ when he started from day one? Nobody expects a day one starter not to be mediocre or worse. Clearly, I meant player with a prior track record who randomly, mid-career, suddenly had a top 5-10 season. If you wanna pretend I didnít mean that, fine. Youíre being dishonest, because you know thatís what I meant, and you really canít give me an example. Maybe Smith, although I said ďwithin the last five seasons,Ē and his above average play began before that (point being it doesnít happen ďfairly oftenĒ).
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:11 PM   #170
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Sorry Price, I donít think that was me. I donít ask personal questions like that.
whoops, yep it was somebody else.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:14 PM   #171
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I didnít move the goal posts. How did I? Your examples didnít meet the criteria at all. How does Mariota, for instance, meet the criteria when he was the second overall pick, started from day one, and has only played three seasons? How does Smith when heís had multiple above average seasons? Type smilies all you want. You didnít meet the criteria. None of your examples are guys with a mid-career top 5-10 season after only a scattered amount of starts and suddenly plays to 5-10 level (only Smith played to that level at any point, but he wasnít a one-hit wonder).


You asked for examples of QBs who were otherwise mediocre but played better than that for a full season. I donít care where Mariota was drafted. Heís mediocre in the NFL. Thatís who he is so far. Alex Smith is the pure definition of mediocre. Carr is mediocre but for that season.

You added in top 5-10 QBs. You added in ďin the middle of their careersĒ. You moved the goal posts so my examples donít fit your narrative. My examples fit your original post before you pussified it. Done with you.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:22 PM   #172
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You asked for examples of QBs who were otherwise mediocre but played better than that for a full season. I donít care where Mariota was drafted. Heís mediocre in the NFL. Thatís who he is so far. Alex Smith is the pure definition of mediocre. Carr is mediocre but for that season.

You added in top 5-10 QBs. You added in ďin the middle of their careersĒ. You moved the goal posts so my examples donít fit your narrative. My examples fit your original post before you pussified it. Done with you.
I had to add context because you dishonestly interpreted what I wrote. You knew what I meant. You knew goddamn well I was referring to random variance in a career, not a long term, highly drafted day one starter. Youíre a liar if you say otherwise.

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Old 04-11-2018, 09:42 PM   #173
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In situations where the Vikings had third down and more than six yards to gain, Keenum averaged 5.8 yards per attempt, which ranked at the very bottom of the NFL among starters. He also posted a 65.2 rating in those situations. Compare that to third-and-short, where the Vikingsí starter had a 107.8 rating.

PFF tracks ďbig-time throws,Ē which would be into tight windows or deep down field. Only 4.0 percent of his throws were ďbig-time throws,Ē which ranked 20th in the NFL. PFF calculated that he generated the fourth most value from ďnon-NFL throwsĒ such as swing passes and screens in the league.

On passes that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, he went 11-for-47 with two touchdowns, two interceptions.

He got a lot of help from receivers and running backs after the catch, ranking seventh lowest in air yards per completion. Stefon Diggs ranked No. 1 in completion percentage and QB rating on throws qualified as ďcontested catches.Ē


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/20...g-case-keenum/


Bolded is exactly what this team had problems with.
Well way to ruin my night.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:52 PM   #174
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Keenum had a great GREAT year last year and we should be excited to have him. That being said if Denver drafts a QB at least we know they do that because they love the QB NOT b/c they have to.

I don't even care if Denver drafts Mayfield, who I hate. I know if they do they must really believe in him because they don't have to select a QB. Keenum gives them options and that is the best thing he gives them.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:57 PM   #175
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I don't even care if Denver drafts Mayfield, who I hate. I know if they do they must really believe in him because they don't have to select a QB. Keenum gives them options and that is the best thing he gives them.
The only QB I would mind is Allen. Iím not an armchair, I-know-better-than-the-front-office fan, but the deck stacked against Allen succeeding is so high itíd be hard to get behind even as a glass-is-half-full fan. Any of the others I could buy into. I probably prefer Rosen, though, injury issues aside (though I get why some find it an issue). He seems like a Manning-type to me. Not that I think heíll be that good, but just the clean mechanics and highly intellectual, confident approach...I think thereís little chance he busts sans injury (a big ďsans,Ē granted).

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