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Old 04-05-2018, 09:37 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by TheCoachBear View Post
I gasped reading the ďso so defenseĒ thing too. Eagles were one of the best in the league last year.
People look at the SB and NE putting up those numbers and think of the Eagles as so so for some reason.

It was the end of the reason and both teams were playing their best to win a title.
Had no bearing on how good the Eagles were as a whole before that game.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:44 AM   #102
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I'm not that excited about keenum, but you're too caught up with the counting stats.
Hey I'm for whatever it takes to win. I am just retorting the comments about low INTs. Keenum's low overall TDs, yards, and attempts suggest he wasn't asked to take risks. We saw what happened when the training wheels came off against Philly. The real and turnover-prone Keenum showed up. Good opponent or not, that was a full implosion that one would expect from a bad or average QB. He's not going to have the same controlled environment in Denver, at least not if we're going to win many games.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:34 AM   #103
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I gasped reading the ďso so defenseĒ thing too. Eagles were one of the best in the league last year.
I think a lot of people didn't see much of the Eagles until the Super Bowl, in which their D got shredded in a game where both offenses were pretty much unstoppable.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:32 AM   #104
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This does not describe Keenum's career. It describes 2017.
Every player deserves an NFL learning curve, especially quarterbacks. Keenum has played on 4 teams over his 6 year career. He appeared in 26 games in his first 5 years - about a season-and-a-half's worth. Then last year 17 games for the Vikings - a whopping 40% of his career total 43 games played. Isn't it reasonable to conclude that the game finally "slowed down" for him? After a learning curve that spanned 26 games/5 years/4 teams? That's what every observer would say if he'd been a 1st round pick.


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Keenum's low overall TDs, yards, and attempts suggest he wasn't asked to take risks.
Sure, any team with the #1 defense in the league will minimize risks on offense. But the "overall totals" you mentioned are not as low as you think: His TD-Int was 22-7, and his avg per game for attempts and yards was 11th and 15th in the league.


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We saw what happened when the training wheels came off against Philly. The real and turnover-prone Keenum showed up.
Turnover prone? When? His TD-Int was 22-7 last year -same ratio as his 155-46 in college. And he managed a somewhat respectable 26-22 over his first 5 seasons.

Vikings offense was stymied against Philly, no doubt ... but contrary to some of what I've read in this thread, the Eagles defense was #4 in the League in points and yards, and it was a hyper-charged home game for them. Keenum threw 2 picks ... He was hit as he released the first, and the second was deep into garbage time.

I guess the difference in our assessments is a glass half-full, glass half-empty kinda thing.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:32 PM   #105
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Welp. He's better than Sanchez........
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:33 PM   #106
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Every player deserves an NFL learning curve, especially quarterbacks. Keenum has played on 4 teams over his 6 year career. He appeared in 26 games in his first 5 years - about a season-and-a-half's worth. Then last year 17 games for the Vikings - a whopping 40% of his career total 43 games played. Isn't it reasonable to conclude that the game finally "slowed down" for him? After a learning curve that spanned 26 games/5 years/4 teams? That's what every observer would say if he'd been a 1st round pick.


.
It has been the first time he was given a starting role without having to be yanked for someone else.

He had a great season now the hope is he can continue it. He has good weapons in Denver and a good defense so it is on him.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:51 PM   #107
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Second lowest sack rate when pressured in the league last year.


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Old 04-11-2018, 05:23 PM   #108
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Second lowest sack rate when pressured in the league last year.


But he was in the perfect situation!
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:25 PM   #109
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It has been the first time he was given a starting role without having to be yanked for someone else.
And that he got a chance to play on a team that wasnít a complete dumpster fire. QBs with Keenumís pedigree rarely get chances in ideal scenarios, if they get a chance at all.
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:39 PM   #110
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Where was all this Keenum love throughout the years? No one thought he was any good until he puts on a Broncos jersey. I even remember fans who shrugged at the thought we tried to trade for him a while back.


This happens with every player no matter if they were good before or ****ty. Lmao at people thinking Sanchez was going to turn it on cause Kubiak! Truth is Keenum will probably be somewhere in between 1st half of Vikings season, and 2016 Rams.

Heís being asked to carry this team and HC.
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:45 PM   #111
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Where was all this Keenum love throughout the years? No one thought he was any good until he puts on a Bronco.
Thatís a red herring. No UDFA QB gets a legit shot except in a dumpster fire or injury situation. People will give a LB with little pedigree a shot because there is far less on the line. But no one stakes their career on a QB with that kind of pedigree unless they are forced to. Keenum only had starts in dumpster fire situations until he was forced into action due to injury on a team that happened to be good. And he played terrific. You think it was a fluke? Fine. Fair. What people thought of a UDFA previously isnít relevant or fair though. Iím judging the guy based on what I just saw over a full season in a situation that while good was far from perfect contrary to popular opinion.

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Old 04-11-2018, 05:50 PM   #112
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Thatís a red herring. No UDFA QB gets a legit shot except in a dumpster fire or injury situation. People will give a LB with little pedigree a shot because there is far less on the line. But no one stakes their career on a QB with that kind of pedigree unless they are forced to. Keenum only had starts in dumpster fire situations until he forced into action due to injury on a team that happened to be good. And he played terrific. You think it was a fluke? Fine. Fair. What people thought of a UDFA previously isnít relevant or fair though. Iím judging the guy I just saw.

Youíre talking to someone who thought Sloter shouldíve been our back up QB in 2017. UDFA doesnít matter to me.


He had a dumpster fire in LA/STL but he had a stable ďQB guruĒ in Kubiak for a few years. Iím judging over his career, good and bad situations. not just a tiny window. Thatís why I feel heís in between Vikings and Rams.

Heís not exactly going into a solid/good situation either. Heís walking into a 5 win team with a horrible HC.

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Old 04-11-2018, 05:55 PM   #113
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Thatís a red herring. No UDFA QB gets a legit shot except in a dumpster fire or injury situation. People will give a LB with little pedigree a shot because there is far less on the line. But no one stakes their career on a QB with that kind of pedigree unless they are forced to. Keenum only had starts in dumpster fire situations until he was forced into action due to injury on a team that happened to be good. And he played terrific. You think it was a fluke? Fine. Fair. What people thought of a UDFA previously isnít relevant or fair though. Iím judging the guy based on what I just saw over a full season in a situation that while good was far from perfect contrary to popular opinion.
What about Keenum was terrific? He exceeded expectations. He was a 1/100 fluke away from being one and done in the playoffs. His stats were unspectacular. He had a meltdown against Philly. Boo hoo he had a bad line. He didnít help his guys either.

I find it hilarious that we rip on the Chiefs for being stuck with Smith for years and now we consider a worse QB to be a victory.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:00 PM   #114
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Youíre talking to someone who thought Sloter shouldíve been our back up QB in 2017. UDFA doesnít matter to me.


He had a dumpster fire in LA/STL but he had a stable ďQB guruĒ in Kubiak for a few years. Iím judging over his career, good and bad situations. not just a tiny window. Thatís why I feel heís in between Vikings and Rams.

Heís not exactly going into a solid/good situation either. Heís walking into a 5 win team with a horrible HC.
His career was a dumpster fire, injury plagued situation in Houston, Kubiak be damned (Kubes only played him because Schaub and Yates got hurt and the rest of the team was a MASH unit too...he actually played well under the circumstances). Then 2-3 starts with Houston two years later. Then 9 starts in Fisherís dumpster fire. Sorry, but I take more stock in last season than that poor sample size and I think itís reasonable to do so. And no our situation isnít much worse from an offensive personnel stand point (their OL and running game not much better than ours either personnel or DVOA wise, Theilen/Diggs only marginally better than DT/Sanders). And Musgrave isnít much of a downgrade from Shurmur, if at all.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:10 PM   #115
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His career was a dumpster fire, injury plagued situation in Houston, Kubiak be damned (Kubes only played him because Schaub and Yates got hurt and the rest of the team was a MASH unit too...he actually played well under the circumstances). Then 2-3 starts with Houston two years later. Then 9 starts in Fisherís dumpster fire. Sorry, but I take more stock in last season than that poor sample size and I think itís reasonable to do so. And no our situation isnít much worse from an offensive personnel stand point (their OL and running game not much better than ours either personnel or DVOA wise, Theilen/Diggs only marginally better than DT/Sanders). And Musgrave isnít much of a downgrade from Shurmur, if at all.


Yes, Musgrave is his coach, not VJ. I think the defense will be a bit better also just because of Keenum. I think they may have been giving up a bit last year because of the situation with the trash QBís.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:10 PM   #116
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What about Keenum was terrific?
Keenum was second overall in QBR. Don't like QBR? He was fifth in traditional QB rating. Don't like that? He was ninth based on PFF scores. He was the highest rated QB in the league outside the pocket on a team with a below average OL. By any measurable standard of efficiency, he was top 2-9 QB. So, yeah, by any reasonable standard, he was terrific.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #117
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His career was a dumpster fire, injury plagued situation in Houston, Kubiak be damned (Kubes only played him because Schaub and Yates got hurt and the rest of the team was a MASH unit too...he actually played well under the circumstances). Then 2-3 starts with Houston two years later. Then 9 starts in Fisherís dumpster fire. Sorry, but I take more stock in last season than that poor sample size and I think itís reasonable to do so. And no our situation isnít much worse from an offensive personnel stand point (their OL and running game not much better than ours either personnel or DVOA wise, Theilen/Diggs only marginally better than DT/Sanders). And Musgrave isnít much of a downgrade from Shurmur, if at all.


So an who was 6th in the league who made it to the champ game is not much better than an offense who struggled mightily to get it past mid field most games, let alone reach 20 points? Redzones couldnít be more different.


Give me this OL over Denver. Somewhat similar in pass protection later in the season, but they were still overall better than Denverís Ol.

https://thevikingage.com/2018/02/24/...-2017-nfl-com/


Iím also DTs biggest homer but even Iím not dumb enough to take Denverís WRs corps over Viking . Lmao at TE comparison. Vikings RBs more productive. Pretty much better on every level, but nearly the same!

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Old 04-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #118
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[/B]

Yes, Musgrave is his coach, not VJ. I think the defense will be a bit better also just because of Keenum. I think they may have been giving up a bit last year because of the situation with the trash QBís.


Why even have VJ here?
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:15 PM   #119
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Why even have VJ here?
If you donít know, then nothing I can say will be satisfactory for you. Figure it out for yourself.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:15 PM   #120
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So an who was 6th in the league who made it to the champ game is not much better than an offense who struggled mightily to get it past mid field most games, let alone reach 20 points? Redzones couldnít be more different.


Give me this OL over Denver.

https://thevikingage.com/2018/02/24/...-2017-nfl-com/


Iím also DTs biggest homer but even Iím not dumb enough to take Denverís WRs corps over Viking . Lmao at TE comparison. Vikings RBs more productive. Pretty much better on every level, but nearly the same!
Vikes OL was 22nd in DVOA, we were 23rd. They were probably better than ours, but if you think it was by much, you don't have a leg to stand on. Also, you think Keenum had nothing to do with the 6th ranked offense? Clearly part of the reason the Vikes were 6th in offense was Keenum's play. They were mediocre the previous season with Bradford and basically the same talent. Our woes were hugely tied to QB play. You disagree with that?

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Old 04-11-2018, 06:18 PM   #121
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Vikes OL was 22nd in DVOA, we were 23rd. They were probably better than ours, but if you think it was by much, you don't have a leg to stand on. Also, clearly part of the reason the Vikes were 6th in offense was Keenum's play. Our woes were hugely tied to QB play. You disagree with that?


Yes Our woes were tied to QB, but Keenum will still have to carry a team IMO thatís not as talented as Vikings. Different role for him.

Their Ol was better in the run game, pretty evident by watching the games.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:21 PM   #122
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If you donít know, then nothing I can say will be satisfactory for you. Figure it out for yourself.

Affirmative action?

Being a yes man Butt sniffer with no balls?


Could be a few reasons why, none of which involve being competent. He canít even manage coaches let alone players.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:24 PM   #123
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Yes Our woes were tied to QB, but Keenum will still have to carry a team IMO thatís not as talented as Vikings. Different role for him.

Their Ol was better in the run game, pretty evident by watching the games.
They were better in the run game, but it wasn't by a country mile (18th in DVOA versus our 23rd ranked group...7th in yards versus our 12th ranked untit). Every QB has to "carry" a team to some extent, but Keenum carried his further than people wanna give him credit for. The numbers bare that out. Not saying he was Rodgers or anything, and if Elway thinks he can do better in the draft I can get on board, but Keenum wasn't a water-carrier. He contributed to the Vikings' success in a significant way. And his situation here versus Vikings was not that big of a difference (yes, they were better, but advanced stats show it wasn't a huge difference on offense).

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Old 04-11-2018, 06:31 PM   #124
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Better not let Wolfe catch you using PFF grades.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:34 PM   #125
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Better not let Wolfe catch you using PFF grades.
I gave you traditional numbers too. Still not a big difference (5 spot difference in run game either way).
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