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Old 02-07-2019, 12:19 PM   #126
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I wasn't the one that said you can't see wind. And I don't remember my stance against black holes is because you can't see them.

Black holes require faith. As one guy puts it..you really have to believe in those shoulders you're standing on.
Believing in Black Holes doesn't require faith, it requires an understanding of physics. Just as the Suns gravitation pull holds the planets of our solar system in place, and even more than the planets, the asteroid belt, the Kuiper belt, the Oort cloud, etc. Something (Sagittarius A-star) very dark and massive is at the center of our galaxy, stars much larger than our Sun are being kept in a very tight and fast orbit. Hmmm, let's figure out what the heck could that be. What is dark and has enough gravity to hold several large stars in a tight orbit with speeds exceeding 5000km per second. In fact, there's more than just stars orbiting Sagittarius A-star, there are Stellar Mass Black Holes orbiting it as well. Another explanation of Black Holes is Quasar's. Something so bright that 14 billion light years away outshines entire galaxies just a few million light years away. And then there's gravitational lensing.

As many others have pointed out, you can't really just say we haven't seen it therefor it does not exist. We don't see wind, we see the affects of it.

But the key proof is the orbit of the stars (S1,S2, S8, S12, S13, S14) in the very center of the galaxy. Stars and planets don't orbit for no reason, there has to be something with extremely high mass and gravity which pulls these bodies into an orbit. That's not faith brother, that's physics 101. Maybe you're argument is that we don't know exactly how Black Holes work entirely (which would be true) but to say they don't exist because we can't explain every last detail is absurd. There's enough proof to suggest they do exist, but we just don't know the entire story yet.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:22 PM   #127
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Believing in Black Holes doesn't require faith, it requires an understanding of physics. Just as the Suns gravitation pull holds the planets of our solar system in place, and even more than the planets, the asteroid belt, the Kuiper belt, the Oort cloud, etc. Something (Sagittarius A-star) very dark and massive is at the center of our galaxy, stars much larger than our Sun are being kept in a very tight and fast orbit. Hmmm, let's figure out what the heck could that be. What is dark and has enough gravity to hold several large stars in a tight orbit with speeds exceeding 5000km per second. In fact, there's more than just stars orbiting Sagittarius A-star, there are Stellar Mass Black Holes orbiting it as well. Another explanation of Black Holes is Quasar's. Something so bright that 14 billion light years away outshines entire galaxies just a few million light years away. And then there's gravitational lensing.

As many others have pointed out, you can't really just say we haven't seen it therefor it does not exist. We don't see wind, we see the affects of it.

But the key proof is the orbit of the stars (S1,S2, S8, S12, S13, S14) in the very center of the galaxy. Stars and planets don't orbit for no reason, there has to be something with extremely high mass and gravity which pulls these bodies into an orbit. That's not faith brother, that's physics 101. Maybe you're argument is that we don't know exactly how Black Holes work entirely (which would be true) but to say they don't exist because we can't explain every last detail is absurd. There's enough proof to suggest they do exist, but we just don't know the entire story yet.
Well stated
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:39 PM   #128
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1-Believing in Black Holes doesn't require faith, it requires an understanding of physics. Just as the Suns gravitation pull holds the planets of our solar system in place, and even more than the planets, the asteroid belt, the Kuiper belt, the Oort cloud, etc. Something (Sagittarius A-star) very dark and massive is at the center of our galaxy, stars much larger than our Sun are being kept in a very tight and fast orbit. Hmmm, let's figure out what the heck could that be. What is dark and has enough gravity to hold several large stars in a tight orbit with speeds exceeding 5000km per second. In fact, there's more than just stars orbiting Sagittarius A-star, there are Stellar Mass Black Holes orbiting it as well. Another explanation of Black Holes is Quasar's. Something so bright that 14 billion light years away outshines entire galaxies just a few million light years away. And then there's gravitational lensing.

As many others have pointed out, 2 - you can't really just say we haven't seen it therefor it does not exist. 3- We don't see wind, we see the affects of it.

But the key proof is the orbit of the stars (S1,S2, S8, S12, S13, S14) in the very center of the galaxy. Stars and planets don't orbit for no reason, there has to be something with extremely high mass and gravity which pulls these bodies into an orbit. That's not faith brother, that's physics 101. Maybe you're argument is that we don't know exactly how Black Holes work entirely (which would be true) but to say they don't exist because we can't explain every last detail is absurd. There's enough proof to suggest they do exist, but we just don't know the entire story yet.
1- Physics is full of holes. Always have always will. Especially if you start getting into the more out there ideas. A lot of them conflict each other as well. Just because you believe in black holes doesn't make it a fact.

2- Then apply the same logic across the board when it comes to religion. It just might fill in some of those holes.

3- Wind - "the perceptible natural movement of the air, especially in the form of a current of air blowing from a particular direction."

Just a popular opinion.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:17 PM   #129
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Believing in Black Holes doesn't require faith, it requires an understanding of physics. Just as the Suns gravitation pull holds the planets of our solar system in place, and even more than the planets, the asteroid belt, the Kuiper belt, the Oort cloud, etc. Something (Sagittarius A-star) very dark and massive is at the center of our galaxy, stars much larger than our Sun are being kept in a very tight and fast orbit. Hmmm, let's figure out what the heck could that be. What is dark and has enough gravity to hold several large stars in a tight orbit with speeds exceeding 5000km per second. In fact, there's more than just stars orbiting Sagittarius A-star, there are Stellar Mass Black Holes orbiting it as well. Another explanation of Black Holes is Quasar's. Something so bright that 14 billion light years away outshines entire galaxies just a few million light years away. And then there's gravitational lensing.

As many others have pointed out, you can't really just say we haven't seen it therefor it does not exist. We don't see wind, we see the affects of it.

But the key proof is the orbit of the stars (S1,S2, S8, S12, S13, S14) in the very center of the galaxy. Stars and planets don't orbit for no reason, there has to be something with extremely high mass and gravity which pulls these bodies into an orbit. That's not faith brother, that's physics 101. Maybe you're argument is that we don't know exactly how Black Holes work entirely (which would be true) but to say they don't exist because we can't explain every last detail is absurd. There's enough proof to suggest they do exist, but we just don't know the entire story yet.
I think where some people can't make the connection is in how sure we seem about our conception of black holes. That's where we tend to take a theory and run with it like it's fact.

Then any misconceptions or revisions of those theories become a fraud in the minds of certain people. I'd prefer science make more clear in a lot of these things just how theoretical many specifics are. That way when things get revised or become understood in a different way, it doesn't give certain people a hook with which to claim the whole exercise a fraud.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:18 PM   #130
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Just out of curiosity, what do you think this is?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-.../#.XFxjxrh7nIU

Obviously its not a giant invisible toilet sucking down a star.
Omega what are your thoughts on this?
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #131
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Omega has a hardon for black holes.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:29 PM   #132
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All physics theories are facts don't you know. String Theory anyone?
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:35 PM   #133
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I think where some people can't make the connection is in how sure we seem about our conception of black holes. That's where we tend to take a theory and run with it like it's fact.

Then any misconceptions or revisions of those theories become a fraud in the minds of certain people. I'd prefer science make more clear in a lot of these things just how theoretical many specifics are. That way when things get revised or become understood in a different way, it doesn't give certain people a hook with which to claim the whole exercise a fraud.
Go watch on TV how the JPL cosmologist/astrophysics half halfheartedly believe in black holes these days. Gaff already mentioned Hawking's reversal. (Stole my thunder) Only on the Mane do the true experts come out. Kind of like a certain few lobbying for billionaires tax rates when they're not billionaires.

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Old 02-07-2019, 01:35 PM   #134
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Omega has a hardon for black holes.
white poles for black holes

NSFW link pending
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #135
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Omega what are your thoughts on this?
Post the pic or the story. I don't click on the links here very often.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:03 PM   #136
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Omega has a hardon for black holes.
I don't mind you following along. Just try to do it without imagining my penis.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:39 PM   #137
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I think where some people can't make the connection is in how sure we seem about our conception of black holes. That's where we tend to take a theory and run with it like it's fact.

Then any misconceptions or revisions of those theories become a fraud in the minds of certain people. I'd prefer science make more clear in a lot of these things just how theoretical many specifics are. That way when things get revised or become understood in a different way, it doesn't give certain people a hook with which to claim the whole exercise a fraud.
I somewhat agree but not entirely. We know we can't explain everything about Black Holes. But some things we can explain. We can explain mass, we can explain that bodies of mass have a gravitational pull on other bodies of mass. There is something with an enormous amount of mass at the center of the galaxy that just so happens to be dark. Is it a giant worm hole? Meh, maybe, those are even more speculative than Black Holes though. Seems more logical that it's just a giant massive object where gravity is so intense that not even light can escape. Gravity so intense that it can pull massive stars into very tight and fast orbits. People can call it whatever they want I suppose, and I already stated many things about Black Holes are unknown. But what we do know something is pulling those stars into an orbit so SOMETHING is definitely there, and that something is dark and can't be seen directly, so we just refer to it as a Black Hole. There is no debate on that. So as I mentioned, you have to start adding the pieces together. You have dark massive objects holding stars in tight orbits, you have Quasar's, which show us these dark massive objects at centers of galaxies and what they look like when material is actually too close and gets consumed. And then you have Hypernova remnants where massive stars once were and now nothing is there at all, not even a low luminous brown dwarf, nothing. We know when smaller stars explode (Supernova, Nova) they leave behind dwarf stars, neutron stars, pulsars, etc. So what happens to the massive stars after Hypernova? Black Holes. All scientists are doing really is piecing together the puzzle with all the different things that we have observed.

And again, there's no way to directly see gravity, but it's common knowledge that it does exist. If people really looked at all the evidence that has been compiled, the same should be thought about regarding Black Holes. Again, call them what you want, but something is there doing it's thing. Let's not try to pretend nothing is there and these stars are simply orbiting the center of nothing.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:02 PM   #138
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I somewhat agree but not entirely. We know we can't explain everything about Black Holes. But some things we can explain. We can explain mass, we can explain that bodies of mass have a gravitational pull on other bodies of mass. There is something with an enormous amount of mass at the center of the galaxy that just so happens to be dark. Is it a giant worm hole? Meh, maybe, those are even more speculative than Black Holes though. Seems more logical that it's just a giant massive object where gravity is so intense that not even light can escape. Gravity so intense that it can pull massive stars into very tight and fast orbits. People can call it whatever they want I suppose, and I already stated many things about Black Holes are unknown. But what we do know something is pulling those stars into an orbit so SOMETHING is definitely there, and that something is dark and can't be seen directly, so we just refer to it as a Black Hole. There is no debate on that. So as I mentioned, you have to start adding the pieces together. You have dark massive objects holding stars in tight orbits, you have Quasar's, which show us these dark massive objects at centers of galaxies and what they look like when material is actually too close and gets consumed. And then you have Hypernova remnants where massive stars once were and now nothing is there at all, not even a low luminous brown dwarf, nothing. We know when smaller stars explode (Supernova, Nova) they leave behind dwarf stars, neutron stars, pulsars, etc. So what happens to the massive stars after Hypernova? Black Holes. All scientists are doing really is piecing together the puzzle with all the different things that we have observed.

And again, there's no way to directly see gravity, but it's common knowledge that it does exist. If people really looked at all the evidence that has been compiled, the same should be thought about regarding Black Holes. Again, call them what you want, but something is there doing it's thing. Let's not try to pretend nothing is there and these stars are simply orbiting the center of nothing.
I don't really have any arguments that something that behaves like what we think of as a black hole is obviously there. We just tend to always underplay how much our imagination is the limit of what those things actually are. I think science really needs to do better at explaining that our explanation of the things we observe are often VERY theoretical. The authority with which some speak on some of this stuff is misleading as well.

And I think institutionally, the inability to admit theory against fact causes a kind of hubris that does more harm than good and feeds doubters even more.

Gravity itself is still an existential mystery to science. And I don't think it should shy away from educating people about that fact.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:36 PM   #139
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I don't really have any arguments that something that behaves like what we think of as a black hole is obviously there. We just tend to always underplay how much our imagination is the limit of what those things actually are. I think science really needs to do better at explaining that our explanation of the things we observe are often VERY theoretical. The authority with which some speak on some of this stuff is misleading as well.

And I think institutionally, the inability to admit theory against fact causes a kind of hubris that does more harm than good and feeds doubters even more.

Gravity itself is still an existential mystery to science. And I don't think it should shy away from educating people about that fact.
Not gonna happen Beav. There's a reason they never show the real data. It's always an artist rendition of what they think it would look like. People wouldn't even see the black in the black hole. lol
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:43 PM   #140
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Not gonna happen Beav. There's a reason they never show the real data. It's always an artist rendition of what they think it would look like. People wouldn't even see the black in the black hole. lol
That's not surprising when people observe things they can't see. And they could be completely right. I just wish they made it well understood how theoretical most of these things still are.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:01 PM   #141
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That's not surprising when people observe things they can't see. And they could be completely right. I just wish they made it well understood how theoretical most of these things still are.
I've been watching the shows for decades. It's their version of white Jesus. Funny, I find myself on this side of the argument. But yeah, they've been working on gravity for centuries. And it's here on the planet.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:35 AM   #142
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:53 AM   #143
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I was watching a show last night and they were talking about stars. The narrator Mike Rowe was talking about 10,000 mph winds in some far off distance galaxy. How the f do you measure winds in some far off distant galaxy?-- I suspect if all the peers go along with it (like black holes) it becomes fact.
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:57 AM   #144
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I was watching a show last night and they were talking about stars. The narrator Mike Rowe was talking about 10,000 mph winds in some far off distance galaxy. How the f do you measure winds in some far off distant galaxy?
You observe it and notice a change in position over time. Also called movement.

Do you really think astronomers just make up **** to trick you?
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:05 AM   #145
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You observe it and notice a change in position over time. Also called movement.

Do you really think astronomers just make up **** to trick you?
In a far off solar system. They can't see the planets but they can measure and see wind? Nah.Just some fantasy stuffing IMO.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #146
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Well done. See, I told you I liked some of your memes.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #147
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In a far off solar system. They can't see the planets but they can measure and see wind? Nah.Just some fantasy stuffing IMO.
Lol but Jeebus yawl.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:14 AM   #148
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In a far off solar system. They can't see the planets but they can measure and see wind? Nah.Just some fantasy stuffing IMO.
What show was this?

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's BS and just an attempt to trick you.

Sheesh.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:16 AM   #149
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Lol but Jeebus yawl.
They can't even get the weather right on this planet! And half the show is them telling you the weather in the universe.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:26 AM   #150
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I was watching a show last night and they were talking about stars. The narrator Mike Rowe was talking about 10,000 mph winds in some far off distance galaxy. How the f do you measure winds in some far off distant galaxy?-- I suspect if all the peers go along with it (like black holes) it becomes fact.
I saw a show about this (probably the same one). I believe in the case you're speaking of, they can see that the hot spot on the planet is not on the side directly facing it's star as happens on other planets we observe, but is skewed a certain distance around to the side all the time. The hot spot is sometimes skewed in other planets but is caused by the direction the planet rotates. In this planet, it is skewed opposite the planet's rotation and they speculate that only very high winds can cause this. Here's an article I found on the phenomenon.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/myst...overed-1803707
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