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Old 12-19-2016, 06:18 PM   #126
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(To a point) translation is unless it conflicts with what i say and remember the findings are only as good as the data to put in them and of course that shouldn't be questioned riiiiiight?
The evidence dictates the theories.

Do you honestly believe that the theory of manmade climate change is all some sort of fraud or hoax?

Why?
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:21 PM   #127
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Yep, one of the hacked emails. From 2003.

And yet the planet goes along with the science.

Who knew nature followed our political games?

You were never interested in honesty in this thread. You've made that quite clear.
I wanted an honest discussion. I just didn't realize you were a petty, dishonest man. If you want to reset, then stop being a troll, and go back to my original question and start posting in an honest and open manner.

Wags, I promise you, posting with honest and integrity is not as scary as you feel it is. Give it a shot.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:24 PM   #128
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Whats funny is what scientists 100 years from now come to find will they find out the science of 2016 was politically motivated or flat wrong or right, cause it will be exposed someday ( in the history books forever) sadly we will all be long gone.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:27 PM   #129
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Whats funny is what scientists 100 years from now come to find will they find out the science of 2016 was politically motivated or flat wrong or right, cause it will be exposed someday ( in the history books forever) sadly we will all be long gone.
They will certainly find it is politically motivated, as little WAGS would say, the debate is over on that. You know, the evidence dictates and all...

As to whether any aspect of it will be proven right 100 years from now, I kind of wish I was going to be around to know.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:28 PM   #130
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Yep, one of the hacked emails. From 2003.

And yet the planet goes along with the science.

Who knew nature followed our political games?

You were never interested in honesty in this thread. You've made that quite clear.
Who knew politics followed the scientific game ( you know they don't care) you cant be that dense you clearly understand why they support things.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:37 PM   #131
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Who knew politics followed the scientific game ( you know they don't care) you cant be that dense you clearly understand why they support things.
Well, we are pretty sure that there was warming as rapid as today, but we don't want to say that, so how about we say something like, "well, there are lots of things that promote good grape growth besides temperature...."


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Thanks. I think I will say: "Anecdotal evidence, for example the growing of grapes in the medieval period, has been used to imply that current warm temperatures in England have not been influenced by human activities. However, the popularity of grape growing is related to many other factors apart from temperature, and the longest temperature record in existence (that for the Low Countries (van Engelen, refernce??)) indicates a medieval warm period that was cooler than current temperatures". OK?

I am not very convinced by it myself, but it's the best I can think of. Realclimate points out that "attribution doesn't depend on previous climates changes", which I have used myself, but doesnt seem to apply here, does it, because you use the lack of any natural warming from obs/model as the way to rule out natural causes for the last 50 years. van Engelen (Fig 6 in UKCIP02) seems to show sustained warmings as big as 1970-2000 in the 1300s.

Change of subject. In K&S you say "....it is likely that there has been a sig human influence on the recent warming of CET...". I is the word "likely" meant to have IPCC connotations ie GT 66%?

BTW I didn't think much of the 9 errors article on realclimate, particularly the points on SLR and on Kilimanjaro. Much too defensive of Gore.

Geoff [Manager, Climate Change Scenarios, Hadley Centre, Met Office]
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:38 PM   #132
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But, the evidence dictates the theories....

The evidence that there are billions of dollars going into the pockets of people cranking out all this myopic "science."
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:43 PM   #133
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Don't get me started on real climate.com they put the B in biased.....
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:19 PM   #134
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I wanted an honest discussion. I just didn't realize you were a petty, dishonest man. If you want to reset, then stop being a troll, and go back to my original question and start posting in an honest and open manner.

Wags, I promise you, posting with honest and integrity is not as scary as you feel it is. Give it a shot.
You're dishonest and have no place talking about integrity.

You think the hacked emails show something.

They do not. As was shown in many independent investigations.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:21 PM   #135
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Whats funny is what scientists 100 years from now come to find will they find out the science of 2016 was politically motivated or flat wrong or right, cause it will be exposed someday ( in the history books forever) sadly we will all be long gone.
You still don't get it.

You'd love to think that the entire climate science community is a bunch of corrupt frauds.

Yet the planet is doing pretty much what climate scientists said it would do.

Not that reality will change your mind, of course.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:22 PM   #136
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But, the evidence dictates the theories....

The evidence that there are billions of dollars going into the pockets of people cranking out all this myopic "science."
You're wrong. Jo Nova was, and still is, full of ****.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:23 PM   #137
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Don't get me started on real climate.com they put the B in biased.....
So discard realclimate.

What climate science site is unbiased, in your view?

Do you know of any?
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:23 PM   #138
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You're dishonest and have no place talking about integrity.

You think the hacked emails show something.

They do not. As was shown in many independent investigations.
, by the same organizations that were part of the discussions in the emails.

If you want to hit reset, apologize for being intentionally obtuse and not answering some simple questions as a starting point for an open dialogue.

Your choice, dialogue or you can continue to be a demagogue.

Which will it be? Dialogue or demagogue?

You have the power to do better. Just choose to be better. You can do it.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:26 PM   #139
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, by the same organizations that were part of the discussions in the emails.

If you want to hit reset, apologize for being intentionally obtuse and not answering some simple questions as a starting point for an open dialogue.

Your choice, dialogue or you can continue to be a demagogue.

Which will it be? Dialogue or demagogue?

You have the power to do better. Just choose to be better. You can do it.
Show you understand the basics of the science.

Calculate the surface temperature of the earth given the incoming solar and the average albedo.

Show your work:
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:32 PM   #140
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Show you understand the basics of the science.

Calculate the surface temperature of the earth given the incoming solar and the average albedo.

Show your work:
I'll just check out an IPCC report from 15 years ago to find out what they predict it will be. Wait, i forgot, they can't do math either....

Newsflash Kiddo, the question is what the temperature of the earth will be in the future. I was, and still am, even willing to have that discussion with you. However, you are so terrified into being tricked into saying something that might be used against you in a debate, that you have been intentionally obtuse.

So, if you want to give up the demagoguery and start over, answer the questions I asked eight times.

Are modern temperatures higher than they've been in the last five inter-glacial periods?

Is modern sea level higher than they've been in the last five inter-glacial periods?

Is the rate of change of both higher than they've been in the last five inter-glacial periods?

If you don't have the knowledge or balls to answer those questions, then go back to the corner and go back to sucking on your thumb.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:33 PM   #141
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, by the same organizations that were part of the discussions in the emails.
Nope.

You really are ignorant.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:33 PM   #142
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[...]
Calculate the surface temperature of the earth given the incoming solar and the average albedo:
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:37 PM   #143
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Calculate the surface temperature of the earth given the incoming solar and the average albedo:
Ok, I guess the debate really is settled, there is nothing abnormal about modern temperatures and they are within normal climate variability.

Either that, or you simply don't know the answers to my simple questions.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:41 PM   #144
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Ok, I guess the debate really is settled, there is nothing abnormal about modern temperatures and they are within normal climate variability.

Either that, or you simply don't know the answers to my simple questions.
Your questions are irrelevant at this point.

Let's start with some really easy basics. Do the calculation.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:44 PM   #145
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Your questions are irrelevant at this point.

Let's start with some really easy basics. Do the calculation.
I'll read one of your UCAR blog posts this weekend to make sure I'm all boned up on the calculation.

In the meantime, I'm not a creationist like you, I don't believe the earth was created 166 years ago.

So, why don't you first answer the questions, and then explain to me (in small words) why it isn't relevant.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:54 PM   #146
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I'll read one of your UCAR blog posts this weekend to make sure I'm all boned up on the calculation.

In the meantime, I'm not a creationist like you, I don't believe the earth was created 166 years ago.

So, why don't you first answer the questions, and then explain to me (in small words) why it isn't relevant.
Baby steps first.

Do the calculation.

For extra credit, explain why your answer isn't what's observed.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:56 PM   #147
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I wanted an honest discussion. I just didn't realize you were a petty, dishonest man. If you want to reset, then stop being a troll, and go back to my original question and start posting in an honest and open manner.

Wags, I promise you, posting with honest and integrity is not as scary as you feel it is. Give it a shot.
His reply always, is either a question to deflect away, a change in topic to deflect away, or a personal attack to deflect away.

Very dishonest, trollish poster that lurks the political section of the OM.

But he is fun, because he is a crazy old man. You are far wiser with age Tned!
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:58 PM   #148
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Baby steps first.

Do the calculation.

For extra credit, explain why your answer isn't what's observed.
I posed the question first. As is always, you are a disingenuous person and poster.

I've been very clear. If you want to do a reset, and address my questions and then we start from there, fine. Otherwise, let the adults talk and you go back to the hill and making a living off the backs of hard working American dumping trillions into a "science" that you don't even have the guts to honestly discuss.
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:00 PM   #149
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His reply always, is either a question to deflect away, a change in topic to deflect away, or a personal attack to deflect away.

Very dishonest, trollish poster that lurks the political section of the OM.

But he is fun, because he is a crazy old man. You are far wiser with age Tned!
Someone told me that WAGS is one of the most intelligent posters on the Mane.... Right up until he types something and then the illusion is gone. I'm starting to understand what was meant by that.
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:00 PM   #150
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I posed the question first. As is always, you are a disingenuous person and poster.

I've been very clear. If you want to do a reset, and address my questions and then we start from there, fine. Otherwise, let the adults talk and you go back to the hill and making a living off the backs of hard working American dumping trillions into a "science" that you don't even have the guts to honestly discuss.
Do the calculation.

Show me you understand the most basic aspects of the science.

So far, you've shown nothing.
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