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Old 06-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #901
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Originally Posted by Blueflame View Post
The converse is also true... those who were heavily emotionally invested in Tebow tend to divert criticism off of Tebow and onto McCoy. It is also possible to love Tebow without shredding McCoy.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
I agree, that's where the truth lies. McCoy didn't do a very good job last year. He's not a bum, he's not in a conspiracy, he did the best he could, he was trying to win. And he did some good things. But he also didn't do as well as I would like to see. Not at developing Tebow since Tebow got here, and not at installing an offense, not game planning, and not play-calling.

Tebow's failures are out in the open for all to see.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:55 AM   #902
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Come on Tebowite! We were 1 and 4 with Orton. If we wanted to suck for Luck, we were already doing an accidental job on it 5 games in and would have stayed the course.

I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:54 PM   #903
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yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:43 PM   #904
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yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB
Because their current QB sucks?
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #905
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I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.
You're gonna try and convince us that Elway, the guy who got rid of a pool table because Brister beat him ONCE, would secretly plan to lose games? His competitiveness wouldn't allow him to lose on purpose. Sorry, but I think the premise of your argument is completely off

I cannot fathom that any coach, or member of our organization, especially a guy like Elway would "want to lose" regardless of the circumstances.....let alone to get a higher draft pick, save for something like we were 1-10 or 1-12. Then maybe I could see them playing the young guys and not caring as much if they win a game, because at that point in time, there's not much to cheer about finishing 2-14 vs 1-15.

We were 1-4....and while that was awful, it wasn't like we were 5 games out of first place....SD was 4-1...Oak was 3-2....KC was 2-3 so to say the season was lost when were sitting in last at 1-4 is not accurate....afterall how many times have we seen the Broncos lose 4 straight to end a season while another rival wins 3 or 4 to sneak in as division champs?

As for whether or not we'd have won 7 of our next 8 with Orton is irrelevant, because it fails to take into account that going 7-1 over our next 8 games after the switch to Tebow is meaningless if the Chargers didn't lose 6 straight games themselves, or had KC not lost 6 of their final 9 game, or if the Raiders didn't lose 4 of their last 5 games, including the one that actually netted us the division title.

And getting rid of Lloyd for something was better than watching him leave without any compensation....the waiving of Orton was basically the FO allowing him a chance to go to another team vs. being a bit of a distraction sitting the bench...that if anything should have destroyed all the "Elway wouldn't give Tebow a chance" bull****.

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Old 06-10-2012, 04:44 PM   #906
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yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB
For all his foibles, Sanchez has responded when pushed by Rex Ryan....I recall him sitting Mark down and letting Brunell take more than his courtesy 1st team snaps to send a message and Mark responded to the head game rather well.

I'm guessing that perhaps Ryan sees Tebow as a red zone running "wildcat" threat, capable of firing up his team mates, and that is capable of occasionally hitting a WR accurately, who won't rock the boat by being a negative locker room presence, and will be the good back-up...but, he also sees a guy whose circus will jump all over Sanchez at even the slightest hint of poor play, basically pushing the young kid into playing much better than he has recently.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #907
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This thread retains its awesomeness. The hatas still keepin' the hate alive.

Their newest revelation

Mike McCoy, whose career highlights include...

Being Jake "Canton" Delhomme's QB coach

A 12 and 23 record as an offensive coordinator without Tim Tebow on the field.

A 9-7 record with Tebow on the field.

Conclusion... Mike McCoy is a genius. Tim Tebow sux.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:19 PM   #908
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This thread retains its awesomeness. The hatas still keepin' the hate alive.

Their newest revelation

Mike McCoy, whose career highlights include...

Being Jake "Canton" Delhomme's QB coach

A 12 and 23 record as an offensive coordinator without Tim Tebow on the field.

A 9-7 record with Tebow on the field.

Conclusion... Mike McCoy is a genius. Tim Tebow sux.
Reality is so much more boring...

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Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:04 AM   #909
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Still no hate for Teebs right now. Wish him the best of luck but am going to side with a future hall of fame guy that is questionable (supposedly.. depending on reports).

I think the right move was mad even if there was a tinge of desperation in the move. Teebs would have killed the D. Sent them to an early grave.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:40 AM   #910
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I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.
Well Lloyd is a one year wonder. He has been in the NFL 10 years now and he had one tremendous year. He only lasted one year with the Rams, we'll see how he does with his reunion with Josh in NE goes.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:53 AM   #911
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Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.
This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in. Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure. He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent. That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:20 AM   #912
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Well Lloyd is a one year wonder. He has been in the NFL 10 years now and he had one tremendous year. He only lasted one year with the Rams, we'll see how he does with his reunion with Josh in NE goes.
Yeah because leading the Rams in receiving last year in only 10 games clearly shows he has no talent.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:25 AM   #913
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This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in. Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure. He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent. That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.
Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

This is common in many young quarterbacks. I've seen Mark Sanchez do it for 3 years.

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:25 AM   #914
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Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

This is common in many young quarterbacks. I've seen Mark Sanchez do it for 3 years.

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.
Tebow couldnt hit a bull inthe ass with a bass fiddle
His short game sucked ....McCoy only had so much to work with ..
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:41 AM   #915
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Tebow couldnt hit a bull inthe ass with a bass fiddle
His short game sucked ....McCoy only had so much to work with ..
Why would you want to hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle?

Not only do you break a perfectly good musical instrument but you probably piss off the bull.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:49 AM   #916
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This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

don't you mean what Tebow did against arguably the worst pass defense in the NFL in Minnesota, and against a team that had 9-10 guys in the box to stop the run? Ok, we'll concede that Tebow can throw the ball when faced with those kind of obstacles of cover zero and zero talent defending against him

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

No other option...Ok...i prefer to see it as they took advantage of the opportunities the opposing D gave them

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

Again, the Minnesota game and Steeler playoff game were the exceptions...not the norm when it came to Tebow throwing the ball


McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

I'm gonna guess you weren't watching the games where he went 6-22 with an int and a suck ass passer rating....he only threw with above average accuracy when opposing teams had clowns for DB's, played off or played cover zero

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in.

OK..he completed 67% in college...so what? this is the NFL...and against NFL defenses he struggles to complete more than half of his passes.


Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure.

somewhat limited? that's like saying Bronco Beavis is mildly retarded....he's very limited in consistently completing any pass at THIS level of competition


He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

I guess it never occured to you that perhaps Tim didn't instill any confidence in his passing prowess by sucking at it in practice....listen to the words of the WR's and hell, the whole team now...they're ecstatic that they finally have a QB that can throw a very accurate pass consistently

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent.

Here's a thought...Tebow has very little if any NFL talent when it comes to consistently throw the ball....is that not possible?

That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.

...you're joking right? He changed the entire offense to fit the one skill the kid excelled at....running thru arm tackles. My God....what will your excuse be when he fails to complete half his passes for the Jets?

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Old 06-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #917
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Why would you want to hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle?

Not only do you break a perfectly good musical instrument but you probably piss off the bull.
Pretty good work out ;-)
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:00 AM   #918
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Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

Because there is a huge difference between being open in college and open in the NFL

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

I doubt we could've made our offense any more simpler than it was to help the kid out....

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

and yet when limited to 8 passes he hits on two and we win....and later against the same team, when they opened it up a bit for him, he turned in arguably the worst passing performance by a Broncos QB ever....

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.

Or another way to look at it is that the defense kept us in the game despite a poorly led offense that constantly went 3 and out, and that coupled with amazing luck like a RB running outta bounds to stop the clock, then fumbling in OT, or failing to recover an onside kick, etc...and given our young QB's limitations throwing the ball, we were forced into winning ugly

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Old 06-12-2012, 11:07 AM   #919
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Happy Anniversary, Tebows
By Mike Klis The Denver Post Add a comment

Share Forty-one years ago today, the sports world as we know it began to change. Bob and Pam Tebow were married on June 12, 1971. The bride skipped her graduation ceremony at the University of Florida to instead say “I do,” to Bob.

The Tebows would devote their life to their missionary work in the Philippines, and to their five children _ Christy, Katie, Robby, Peter and Timothy.

Their youngest has become both the most popular, and second-most criticized (behind LeBron) athlete in the United States. So raise those bottled waters everybody. Here’s to the Tebows!



http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...-tebows/13970/
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:13 AM   #920
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:50 PM   #921
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Happy Anniversary, Tebows
By Mike Klis The Denver Post Add a comment

Share Forty-one years ago today, the sports world as we know it began to change. Bob and Pam Tebow were married on June 12, 1971. The bride skipped her graduation ceremony at the University of Florida to instead say “I do,” to Bob.

The Tebows would devote their life to their missionary work in the Philippines, and to their five children _ Christy, Katie, Robby, Peter and Timothy.

Their youngest has become both the most popular, and second-most criticized (behind LeBron) athlete in the United States. So raise those bottled waters everybody. Here’s to the Tebows!



http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...-tebows/13970/
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #922
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I wonder if Tedy Bruschi has any clue whatsoever of the intensity of the wrath that will be incoming toward him after his comments on ESPN about Tebow. It is entertaining watching another team have to deal with the circus.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:03 PM   #923
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I wonder if Tedy Bruschi has any clue whatsoever of the intensity of the wrath that will be incoming toward him after his comments on ESPN about Tebow. It is entertaining watching another team have to deal with the circus.
It was a few days ago. So what happened to Bruschi? Was it bad?
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:40 PM   #924
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It was a few days ago. So what happened to Bruschi? Was it bad?
Bruschi's comments (obviously not an exact quote here; but it's the gist of what he said) that Tebow should STFU and concentrate on being Sanchez's backup... were re-aired today on ESPN and are pretty much guaranteed to bring a strident reaction from Tebow fans, if they follow the same pattern they've established over the past 2 years. ESPN also dutifully reported that Tebow himself says he's "only doing what the Jest PR department asked him to do". They also re-aired Rex Ryan's "damage control" interview. Anyway I'm so glad it's them (the Jest) dealing with all this instead of us.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:42 PM   #925
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I think it blew over.
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