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Old 10-10-2018, 03:30 PM   #1
Chris
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Default This is what happens when America loses the moral high ground and its leadership in the world...

  • Saudi Arabia murders and mutilates the body of a man who wrote critical articles about the ruling elite for the Washington Post
  • China kidnaps the head of INTERPOL and locks him in jail on trumped up charges. Just another long line of Chinese kidnappings.
  • Russia kidnaps dozens of people in Ukraine over the past few years

No one looks up to America anymore because we've set a bad example, and at the same time no one fears America anymore because we're too weak while busy arguing about trivial ****.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:07 PM   #2
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I'll take "Crap that happens all the time but is handy to blame on your political opponents" for 200 Alex.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:36 PM   #3
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I'll take "Crap that happens all the time but is handy to blame on your political opponents" for 200 Alex.


Yeah, what is he thinking?

Anyone can see tRump and your party have done nothing but restore America's image as a beacon of light to the world. Bigly!
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:45 PM   #4
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I can't comment about Saudi Arabia or China. But as regards Ukraine, the actual situation there is quite different. The Kiev regime has been shelling civilian areas in the east on a continuing basis. There are almost daily casualties. The eastern provinces are predominantly Russian and do not wish to be ruled by the present regime in Kiev - -which is hostile to Russians.

The worst thing the US can do is to throw gas on the fire by shipping more arms to Ukraine - -but this is EXACTLY what we are doing.

For this reason the situation on the ground will probably get worse - - and the potential exists for a major escalation of the war.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:46 PM   #5
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Chris, I am not following how the moral perception of the US and the actions of foreign governments are linked. Unless your argument is that the US should be covertly or overtly fighting these governments. How would the moral perception of the US stop any of the 3 things listed assuming that they are true?
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:48 PM   #6
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Chris, I am not following how the moral perception of the US and the actions of foreign governments are linked. Unless your argument is that the US should be covertly or overtly fighting these governments. How would the moral perception of the US stop any of the 3 things listed assuming that they are true?
I think what he's trying to say is that everyone in the world is nice guys when America is run by Democrats.

Despite volumes and volumes of evidence otherwise.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:52 PM   #7
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No one looks up to America anymore because we've set a bad example, and at the same time no one fears America anymore because we're too weak while busy arguing about trivial ****.
Here's a vew from that bastion of liberalism, Forbes Magazine, that sees the issue as clearly as you do:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#57aabd32de2b

Quote:
The Trump administration’s decision to withdraw from the United Nations Human Rights Council is yet another step in the administration’s retreat from the world stage. Once widely viewed as a global leader on issues like human rights, the U.S. is now a marginal player, in headlong retreat from the leadership position it has occupied since World War II.

In the postwar era, the U.S. played a major role as an architect of the UN system and other international organizations and agreements that have dramatically advanced the country’s security and its economic and political interests. There is a direct link between the development of this international order and our prosperity and success over the last 70 years. That’s why the withdrawal from the UN Human Rights Council is such a mistake.
Your garden variety Rump ass kisser has no idea what this kind of departure from our historical positions on human rights and other issues like climate change is doing to our reputation in the world or what kind of impact it has on other countries that no longer fear our response. Just look at the pinheads on this thread and their absurd deflections for confirmation. Not only do they not care, but they're also actively cheering on our own human rights abuses. This is what white nationalists and fascists do. This is who they are.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #8
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A complicated world is now the norm. Dotard Don and his merry arse kissers and their ilk are driving the destruction of this Country and democracy in the world. Unfuggingbelieveable.

Last edited by Paladin; 10-10-2018 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
  • Saudi Arabia murders and mutilates the body of a man who wrote critical articles about the ruling elite for the Washington Post
  • China kidnaps the head of INTERPOL and locks him in jail on trumped up charges. Just another long line of Chinese kidnappings.
  • Russia kidnaps dozens of people in Ukraine over the past few years

No one looks up to America anymore because we've set a bad example, and at the same time no one fears America anymore because we're too weak while busy arguing about trivial ****.
Not our job!

Interpol can get their cop back, Saudi has been killing peeps for decades, Russia I believe killed a million ukrianians under Stalin. Nothing what you said has any significance behind it related to our military and it’s role.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:25 PM   #10
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- attack on US embassy in Benghazi, etc.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:29 PM   #11
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- attack on US embassy in Benghazi, etc.
Nobody would dare attack an American embassy if we had the high ground and the most powerful military in the world. Oh wait...


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Old 10-10-2018, 09:54 PM   #12
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In this context, it matters greatly that the president of the United States is amoral. It matters that the U.S. is no longer the leader of the free world. It matters that the world is swiping right for fascism and that not only is there no one around to stand up to this era’s bad men and really bad ideas, the country that should be doing the most to resist is actually cheering them on, fawning on the dictators, the authoritarian regimes, the enemies of the rule of law. It matters that our government is now part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I remember the moments of hope that existed back in the 1990s, back when we were celebrating tearing down walls rather than fear-mongering to build them back up. I remember the end of history. We thought back then it was a happy ending. But as it is turning out the end of history did not end well.

One of the particularly hopeful aspects of that moment, beyond our sense that American ideas about markets and democracy had triumphed, was the sense that it would raise up a new set of world powers who, while not monolithic in their views, would be products of the moment. When I was in the Clinton Administration, we called them “Big Emerging Markets.” Later they were defined as the BRICS—Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. Later others would be seen as aspirants to this status, led by countries like Turkey and other regional powers. They would play a key role in the “new world order” we were welcoming, of which we saw ourselves as key authors.

Now look. Brazil has turned in a worrisome direction. Putin’s Russia, Modi’s India and Xi’s China have all taken turns that play up nationalism and show contempt for the rule of law and democratic norms. Turkey has become authoritarian. The U.S. has become infected with Trumpism (and the equally pernicious anti-democratic impulses of McConnellism). Even Europe, the last potential major bulwark against this trend, has seen its efforts at unity falter and the hard-right rise up from Italy to Austria, Hungary to Poland, with major active efforts afoot in Germany, France and the U.K.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-our...1930s?ref=home

Trump says, what's the point of NATO? Right wingers say, what's the point of the UN?

These things are fences that the victors of WWII, the Western democracies (us), put up to keep fascism and authoritarianism locked up. Now, as Trump kicks at those fences and breaks them down (while "falling in love" with the worst of the tyrants), the dogs of totalitarianism smell their time has come at last. This is why Putin made the investment in Trump. And that investment is starting to pay off.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 10-10-2018 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:27 PM   #13
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Nobody would dare attack an American embassy if we had the high ground and the most powerful military in the world. Oh wait...

but i thought the CIA were the good guys?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:15 PM   #14
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I think what he's trying to say is that everyone in the world is nice guys when America is run by Democrats.

Despite volumes and volumes of evidence otherwise.
That's the problem when you're tied to a party, you only see things a certain way, as either something that favors your party or is an attack on your party.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:53 AM   #15
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I think what he's trying to say is that everyone in the world is nice guys when America is run by Democrats.

Despite volumes and volumes of evidence otherwise.
No, I'm not. And my foreign policy has always been fairly republican with the exception of the Iran deal.

What I'm saying is the US set bad precedents post-911 that are now being copied and abused times over by adversarial governments who see America as being too weak to do anything about it right now.

Speak of the devil the guardian had an article on this https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ce-trend-fight
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:07 AM   #16
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  • Saudi Arabia murders and mutilates the body of a man who wrote critical articles about the ruling elite for the Washington Post
  • China kidnaps the head of INTERPOL and locks him in jail on trumped up charges. Just another long line of Chinese kidnappings.
  • Russia kidnaps dozens of people in Ukraine over the past few years

No one looks up to America anymore because we've set a bad example, and at the same time no one fears America anymore because we're too weak while busy arguing about trivial ****.
The leaders of Saudi Arabia and Russia also happen to be strong Trump allies
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:57 AM   #17
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That's the problem when you're tied to a party, you only see things a certain way, as either something that favors your party or is an attack on your party.
Funny how Crimea was invaded and the shadow war in Ukraine launched, and we never heard it told as a product of American immorality.

Political prisoners taken, middle east kidnappings, international poisonings... All par for,the course. Now suddenly in 2018, a product of American moral failure.
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Old 10-11-2018, 07:19 AM   #18
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but i thought the CIA were the good guys?
No such thing as absolutes “good” and “evil” are all about perspective. The CIA is just doing what they are ordered to do and serving in their own best interest.

They have done some good but IMO their foreign meddling has been far far more destructive than helpful. Even when we had the “high” ground.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:15 AM   #19
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No such thing as absolutes “good” and “evil” are all about perspective. The CIA is just doing what they are ordered to do and serving in their own best interest.

They have done some good but IMO their foreign meddling has been far far more destructive than helpful. Even when we had the “high” ground.
I dunno. I think these bureaucracies grow a life of their own and they're no longer simply taking orders. Presidents and cabinet officials aren't out in the field. Intelligence is their eyes and ears. Unfortunately, that gives intelligence a whole bunch of power and influence. Sometimes that's not a problem. But it can be, and obviously has been, wielded with less than perfect intentions at times.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:45 AM   #20
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"moral high ground"

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Old 10-11-2018, 08:54 AM   #21
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Trump made the remark during an interview with Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, saying he respected his Russian counterpart.

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.

"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.

A clip of the exchange was released Saturday and the full interview aired Sunday before the Super Bowl.

It was an unusual assertion coming from the President of the United States. Trump himself, however, has made similar points before.

"He's running his country and at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country," Trump told MSNBC's "Morning Joe" in December 2015.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/polit...tin/index.html

Better Putin than Hillary! (amirite?)
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:56 AM   #22
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Trump made the remark during an interview with Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, saying he respected his Russian counterpart.

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.

"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.

A clip of the exchange was released Saturday and the full interview aired Sunday before the Super Bowl.

It was an unusual assertion coming from the President of the United States. Trump himself, however, has made similar points before.

"He's running his country and at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country," Trump told MSNBC's "Morning Joe" in December 2015.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/polit...tin/index.html

Better Putin than Hillary! (amirite?)
Every once in a while he tells the truth.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:58 AM   #23
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In Wonderland, everything has the same value and discretion is unnecessary.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:59 AM   #24
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"moral high ground"

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Old 10-11-2018, 11:20 AM   #25
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[LIST][*]Saudi Arabia murders and mutilates the body of a man who wrote critical articles about the ruling elite for the Washington Post

The crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, ordered an operation to lure Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia from his home in Virginia and then detain him, according to U.S. intelligence intercepts of Saudi officials discussing the plan.

The intelligence, described by U.S. officials familiar with it, is another piece of evidence implicating the Saudi regime in Khashoggi’s disappearance last week after he entered the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. Turkish officials say that a Saudi security team lay in wait for the journalist and killed him.

Khashoggi was a prominent critic of the Saudi government and Mohammed in particular. Several of Khashoggi’s friends said that over the past four months, senior Saudi officials close to the crown prince had called Khashoggi to offer him protection, and even a high-level job working for the government, if he returned to his home country.

Khashoggi, however, was skeptical of the offers. He told one friend that the Saudi government would never make good on its promises not to harm him.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ba784178b335


Trump has bragged about his friendship with Mohammed bin Salman. Lol
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