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Old 07-12-2018, 06:04 AM   #101
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Trump may state he's Christian but I don't believe he lives by the tenents of being a Christian. A lot of us don't. Being a Christian, to me is learning from Christ's acts and attempting to be Christ like. I believe that #1 is serving others. And NO, I feel Trump serves his own ends. I don't believe he "qualifies" under the beatitudes, but maybe under the 4 woes. Then you have Matthew 19:24; Mark 10:25; Luke 18:25....it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to gain eternal life.

The Bible is open to all types of interpretation and for the most part was written and changed by man. People choose what they want to believe and I don't believe Trump bends towards being Christ like. It's all about him.
You threw a lot of things together that don’t really line up with the Bible.

John 3:16, famously, is the central tenet of the Bible. So, if Trump accepts Jesus as his savior he is saved. And, as you say we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). I think you are missing the point on both the beatitudes and the woes.

As for a rich man getting into heaven, You missed this point as well. Since some like to fixate on this one let’s take a look.

So many people see a verse and take it way out of context. This is certainly the case here. Who was Jesus talking to before he said this and what was his point?

This man was Jewish and so keep in mind that he is approaching Jesus as a teacher of the Law hoping for validation. He calls Jesus ‘good teacher’’...

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus is already reading his motives and beginning the lesson. He points to his father as the only one who is truly good.

After listing the commandments the man says:

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

As you can see, this man has already missed the point. Does this man think he needs a Saviour? No. He is looking for validation of his own perfection. Sadly, religion at this point would give him his validation for a healthy contribution. Possibly this was what he expected. Not so with Jesus. Here is Jesus’ response:

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The lesson was for this man, and the point was he was far from perfect.

Jesus then summarizes the lesson which is what you are fixating on:

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is pointing to the attitude in this man’s heart which was focused on the wrong things. Trump is a billionaire and he had no reason to subject his family and himself to the abuses he is taking now. You can disagree with him, but he certainly isn’t taking the popular road. So his popularity and Hollywood fame he has given away, his family’s security and the annual Presidential salary as well.

Anyway, let’s go on to look at the reward for giving riches away.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

That last line should give us hope.

You used scripture which is good, then The last part of what you said threw it all under the bus.

If you would like to go through more specific scripture I’m happy to do so.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:07 AM   #102
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Tonyels is an eisegete.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:07 AM   #103
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Scripture .
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:08 AM   #104
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Rump is the antithesis of everything Christ stood for, and the lunacy of trying to pretend he's a Christian just makes this guy look far more ridiculous than he has before. Any evangelical who supports this repugnant thing has no clue what their own faith is about, and it's fair to question whether they actually have any.
The thief on the cross made it:

Itís not about good works, itís about faith in Jesus.

Luke 23:39-43 King James Version (KJV)

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

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Old 07-12-2018, 06:08 AM   #105
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Tonyels is an eisegete.
While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.

You can learn something new everyday.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:09 AM   #106
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Trump is a pathological liar. Nothing he says can be accepted at face value. That includes his "conversion."
This is simply an emotional statement. No facts or proof.

Moving on to the next question.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:11 AM   #107
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Totally channeling the Apostle Paul again, here I see.

"I could speak the truth here but what would the fallout be?"

Stop, bro. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
You havenít made a point Beav.

The thread is serving its purpose.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:11 AM   #108
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This is simply an emotional statement. No facts or proof.

Moving on to the next question.
No. Actually. It's a documented fact:
http://www.politifact.com/personalit...yruling/false/

He's the biggest liar who has ever inhabited the White House. He's a pathological liar.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:13 AM   #109
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I see no evidence whatsoever that Trump is a Christian.

Trump says he is a Christian... but Trump lies as comfortably as most human beings breathe.

Oh, and on edit: the way "I" define "Christian"... is aspiring to live/interact with other people in the same manner Jesus did. According to His teachings. Y'know... all that Liberal "love thy neighbor" stuff that today's Republicans hate.
Okay.

What is important is what Jesus defines a Christian is. Wouldnít you agree?
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:14 AM   #110
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You havenít made a point Beav.

The thread is serving its purpose.
The purpose being to bombard this site with biblical scripture.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:20 AM   #111
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This guy knows very little about the Bible he quotes in every post:

Revelation 21:8Ė But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

End thread.
Wolfey, Wolfey, Wolfey....so angry

You again are taking scripture out of context. Yes, those things are bad but if those persons repent and turn to Jesus, they are saved. That is referring to the unrepentant.

King David committed adultery and murder. Yet several places the Bible says Jesus sits on Davidís throne. How can this be with what you put forth?

Also, Jesus says if a person lusts it is the same as adultery and anger is equal to murder in Godís eyes.

Here it is Wolfey. Read this passage. Maybe it will give you some peace.

Romans 3

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:22 AM   #112
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While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.

You can learn something new everyday.
Name calling is one thing.

Proof is in the pudding. So, where is it?
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:27 AM   #113
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Name calling is one thing.

Proof is in the pudding. So, where is it?
I can see your attraction to Donald: You both believe in the basic premise of "ME! ME! ME!" Outside of that little echo chamber, you really don't see or hear a thing.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:45 AM   #114
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I can see your attraction to Donald: You both believe in the basic premise of "ME! ME! ME!" Outside of that little echo chamber, you really don't see or hear a thing.
Itís actually quite different.

Itís Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

Iím here to point to Jesus.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:10 AM   #115
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While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.

You can learn something new everyday.
Yep - I've heard of exegesis, but it makes sense that there's eisegesis.

That's precisely what Tonyels is doing - putting his personal beliefs into his bible, onto his god, and onto his Jesus.

His security regarding what happens after he dies is highly misplaced.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:23 AM   #116
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The important part is if President Trump has truly given his life to Jesus. I believe he has and God is using him to do his work. In the Bible God has even done this with non Christians.
You lose most of what little credibility you had with this nonsense. You reject the notion that Trump is a liar, a notion that has a lot of evidential support, while saying this, which has none. I think you're smarter than this, Tonyels. But your desire for things to be the way you want them to be clouds your judgment. It's borderline delusional.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:33 AM   #117
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Itís actually quite different.

Itís Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

Iím here to point to Jesus.
You're no different than any other fundamentalist (Islamic or otherwise). You feel justified in anything you do because you believe you are a messenger of god. Same as them. You can hijack this forum to spread your "scripture" on every thread. Justified. You can stick your megaphone in anybody's face and yell, "Jesus!" Justified. Really, no matter what you do: "Jesus!" Justified. But like with other fundamentalists, really, the message is, "ME! ME! ME!" The scripture may change, but the self-justification is the same. It's all ego - just like Donald.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:36 AM   #118
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:39 AM   #119
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How mind-boggling that Goldwater is now considered a reasonable man.

Hillary started out as a Goldwater girl. If he was alive today, he'd be considered center/right.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:16 AM   #120
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:51 AM   #121
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Yep - I've heard of exegesis, but it makes sense that there's eisegesis.

That's precisely what Tonyels is doing - putting his personal beliefs into his bible, onto his god, and onto his Jesus.

His security regarding what happens after he dies is highly misplaced.
Just because you own a dictionary doesnít prove anything Wiggy. Sorry.

I thought you liked science. Facts.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:54 AM   #122
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You lose most of what little credibility you had with this nonsense. You reject the notion that Trump is a liar, a notion that has a lot of evidential support, while saying this, which has none. I think you're smarter than this, Tonyels. But your desire for things to be the way you want them to be clouds your judgment. It's borderline delusional.
I donít care about popularity. I care about truth.

People have a lot of unfounded claims against President Trump. More to do with the messiness of politics more than person.

And, people are very misguided when it comes to an understanding of what biblical Christianity is.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:55 AM   #123
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You're no different than any other fundamentalist (Islamic or otherwise). You feel justified in anything you do because you believe you are a messenger of god. Same as them. You can hijack this forum to spread your "scripture" on every thread. Justified. You can stick your megaphone in anybody's face and yell, "Jesus!" Justified. Really, no matter what you do: "Jesus!" Justified. But like with other fundamentalists, really, the message is, "ME! ME! ME!" The scripture may change, but the self-justification is the same. It's all ego - just like Donald.
What is your spiritual belief? Iím not afraid to compare notes.

Tell us about you.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:58 AM   #124
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I care about truth.
You don't though. As I just tried to point out to you in my previous post:

You reject the notion that Trump is a liar, a notion that has a lot of evidential support, while saying this, which has none.


You cling to your idealized reality, rather than actual reality.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:59 AM   #125
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