The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2018, 05:19 PM   #51
gunns
I WANT DEFENSE!
 
gunns's Avatar
 
Defense, defense, defense

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Always Hoping
Posts: 18,245

Adopt-a-Bronco:
John Mobley
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Wade didn't get shown the door. He got paid big time money from one of the richest owners in the league. Also his daughter lived in Los Angeles and he wanted to spend more time with family.

As fans we can't always understand, but sometimes teams can't just make whatever they want happen. Not sure what world some people live in, but you can't always get what you want.
Quote:
When Kubiak retired, the day after the 2016 season ended, Phillips said he knew the writing was on the wall for him to move on. He would have liked to stay, but he knew Joseph’s success as a first-time head coach depended on him having the main voice.
So explain to me why the Broncos could not have resigned him? Because he was shown the door.
gunns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 05:27 PM   #52
Quoydogs
I can fix it .
 
Quoydogs's Avatar
 
Here's Johnny !

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,798

Adopt-a-Bronco:
#13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
History says Wade has never been a good HC....mediocre at best.
This. Wade is a master of the D. But blows as HC.
Quoydogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 05:30 PM   #53
19Morton77
Solid Starter
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 219

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Because he was white. DUH!
19Morton77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 08:31 PM   #54
Bronc Doc
Just Drafted
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 8

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
Wade only came to Denver because of Kubiak, nothing else. It was strictly money and also Vance Joseph being hired.
Woods is going to have to realize teams are going to run at Chubb until he stops them. Minnesota knew he was going to try to sack dance on that first series and used his aggressiveness to run himself out of the play. D Ware needs to coach him up on that.
Bronc Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 08:43 PM   #55
yerner
Ring of Famer
 
yerner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlottesville VA
Posts: 7,455
Default

chubb will stop the run.

Last edited by yerner; 08-12-2018 at 08:52 PM..
yerner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 08:56 PM   #56
Bigdawg26
Ring of Famer
 
Bigdawg26's Avatar
 
Just let it happen!!

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,698

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronc Doc View Post
Woods is going to have to realize teams are going to run at Chubb until he stops them. Minnesota knew he was going to try to sack dance on that first series and used his aggressiveness to run himself out of the play. D Ware needs to coach him up on that.
Yeah but I’m not to concerned with that because it was Chubb’s first NFL game and Ware and Von will coach him up about that. Neither am I concerned about Yiadom being in the right position but not making the play against the Diggs (who’s a really good WR). I think both rookies will get better the more they play.

I’m more concerned about the ILBs. Marshall looked just as horrible as he was last year. That’s my problem. That’s not on Woods because he put Marshall in the right position to make the play.
Bigdawg26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 09:50 PM   #57
24champ
Obi-Wan Phillips
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 23,441

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Brandstarter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunns View Post
Money Are you kidding me? The man who got the team a SB wasn't worth the money? And isn't it funny that it all came about after the story of the defensive locker room complaints and about Wade being responsible? Kubiak a little hurt? And Elway believing it. Kubiak is the one who initially wanted VJ. Isn't that coincidental too. We'd have never gotten that SB. Thank you Cincy!
Wade has said he only came back to Denver because of Kubiak, he wasn’t going to coach in Denver for anyone else. No Kubiak, no Wade. Kubiak doesn’t have an axe to grind with Wade, not sure why you think so. Just odd.

And yes money was a factor, not just for Wade but for the coaching staff overall. I believe we passed on Kyle Shanahan because of money and I’m not even sure Kyle saw eye to eye with Elway in the interviews. Then hiring Vance Joseph as HC was a bigger factor in Wade leaving, I don’t think Wade was going to be thrilled with the idea of Joseph superseding his authority on defense.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 09:54 PM   #58
24champ
Obi-Wan Phillips
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 23,441

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Brandstarter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronc Doc View Post
Woods is going to have to realize teams are going to run at Chubb until he stops them. Minnesota knew he was going to try to sack dance on that first series and used his aggressiveness to run himself out of the play. D Ware needs to coach him up on that.
It’s the first preseason game, Wood and Chubb will work on it. I watched Wade get blown out by the Ravens the other night. Not really worried but if the team is doing poor by the tuneup (third) preseason game, then we’re in for another long season.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 10:13 PM   #59
footstepsfrom#27
helmet to helmet hitter
 
footstepsfrom#27's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 32,639

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Royce Freeman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
Wade only came to Denver because of Kubiak, nothing else. It was strictly money and also Vance Joseph being hired.
I'm thinking he wanted to go.
footstepsfrom#27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 10:42 PM   #60
Ragnar
Perennial Pro-bowler
 
Ragnar's Avatar
 
hate them chiefs

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 786

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chad Kelly
Default

Aside from PPG, We had a pretty darn good defense last year.
3rd overall Defense in the NFL
4th against the Pass,
5th against the Rush.

But when we had offensive masterminds like Siemian giving the ball up 3 times a game, and giving short fields, and our special teams being "Helmet and Diaper" Special, and not "NFL Ready" special....

Of course we had a crap record.

Why are we blaming Woods for (total lack of) offensive output?
Ragnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2018, 11:19 PM   #61
footstepsfrom#27
helmet to helmet hitter
 
footstepsfrom#27's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 32,639

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Royce Freeman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
Aside from PPG, We had a pretty darn good defense last year.
3rd overall Defense in the NFL
4th against the Pass,
5th against the Rush.

But when we had offensive masterminds like Siemian giving the ball up 3 times a game, and giving short fields, and our special teams being "Helmet and Diaper" Special, and not "NFL Ready" special....

Of course we had a crap record.

Why are we blaming Woods for (total lack of) offensive output?
That's a very good question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wo...ican_football)
footstepsfrom#27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 06:15 AM   #62
Zealot
I miss Wade
 
Zealot's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
Elway should’ve hire Wade at HC
No but I would have been fine with Wade as DC for life
Zealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 06:17 AM   #63
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 10,733
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunns View Post
Yes I'm well aware of what being 31st in turnovers on offense means. I also know what being 26th in turnovers on defense means. It means they were only better than 6 other teams in causing and getting turnovers. I was not talking about the offense, I was talking about the defense. You brought up the offense as some kind of "excuse" for Woods defense.
I didn't bring up anyone, I am supporting that case though. It's really quite simple. The offense and special teams were major reasons for the PPG disparity on the defense. There was also a direct effect on pass rush numbers and turnovers as a result.

The average drive for the opponents offense was the 33 yard line....that was 32nd in the league. You know why? Because of short fields provided by the offense and special teams. Opponents average drives were 5 plays and about 24 yards. Those stats were good for #2 in the NFL. Those stats indicate that a significant number of drives started in Denver's own territory, where 5-10 yards or even less could put you in FG range (especially in CO).

Hell, in the Buffalo game they scored 9 points and drove a combined total of 36 yards in those 3 scoring drives. One of those FG drives went -3 yards.

In the Giants game TS had 2 ints in the first half, including a pick 6, and another FG given up on a drive started in Denver territory.

In the 21-0 blowout to SD, 7 points were from a punt return TD. The D only gave up 7 points until 5 mins left in the 4th. While the offense turned the ball over 3 times.

Now the KC game. Another 9 points from 3 drives totaling 15 yards combined. A fumble return for a TD. 16 points given up, while allowing a total of 15 yards. The Denver offense had 9 drives that were 3 and outs or turnovers in 3 plays or less.

The Eagles was a total failure, but even then Philly had 3 drives start within 30 yards of the Denver Goal line. 2 of them within 15 yards. Guaranteed scores if they didn't gain a yard or turn it over.

NE Game another ugly one, a kick off return for a TD and 2 drives that started within 25 yards of the Denver Goal line.

Bengals game. Int returned to our own 1 yard line. Forced 6 straight punts, lose 17-20. CJ fumbles in Denver territory leading to a score. (Denver D forces a fumble on that drive but Cin recovers)

Oakland game #2: Denver gains a total of 41 yards combined on 10 drives (4.1 yards gained per DRIVE). Still only gives up 21 in one score loss.

The infamous Miami game: Denver offense gives up 2 Safeties, and a pick six. 11 points without the defense even being on the field. Denver gets a pick- 6 of it's own. Which means the offense scored 3 total points on the day. TS throws 3 picks and the offense turns it over on downs once. Special teams give up over 100 yards in returns.

That's the first 9 losses...with all but 2 that were within reach with minimal offensive competence. Hell We actually out gained the opponents in 4 of those losses.

The wheels were well falling off at that point, and it is almost 100% the fault of the offense and special teams.

Now tell me, if you were an offensive coordinator, and knew you only needed 5-20 yards to score, why would you put yourself in position to risk turnovers? You won't, you will call low risk plays, pick up a few yards (hope someone breaks a long one) and take your free points. Especially since you know that the offense on the other side simply can't keep up, and will only fade.

The offense and special teams were far more of a negative impact on the Defense than Woods was. Outside of the turnovers, the 2017 Defense was actually very comparable to the 2015 defense statistically. With the big disparity in turnovers coming from Forced fumbles, most of which were generated with pass rush. We have put some talent into replacing Malik and Ware now, and have a good blitzing SS again. we will see if red beard can help us with the downgraded ILB position.

Let's consider some other variables. McManus had his worst season as a pro, with 6 misses between 40-50+ yards. That's 6 drives starting at or near the 50 yard line. Dixon had 2 punts blocked. We had a PR that fumbled 6 times. The team gave up 2 return TD's.

So point being, Wade wasn't changing the fortunes of the team last season. Maybe the D stays intense longer in the season, but it wouldn't be enough to make up for the terrible position the offense was putting them in.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 08:52 AM   #64
Kaylore
Three Lombardis
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
This one's for Pat

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 53,973

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Generally speaking when a team leads the league most of the year in giveaways like we did, the defense looks worse than they really are. Also add the fact that the anemic offense keeps the defense playing uphill most games. I definitely think Wade is better than Woods, but I don't think it's fair to say it's a one to one comparison just looking at stats.

It's devastating to a defense force a punt and then on the punt they fumble it right back and all you did was gift them 30-40 yards. I will say that Ware helped, because our offense wasn't much better in 2015.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #65
Jason in LA
Gimmie that rep fool!
 
Jason in LA's Avatar
 
Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LA
Posts: 18,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post

That's the first 9 losses...with all but 2 that were within reach with minimal offensive competence. Hell We actually out gained the opponents in 4 of those losses.

The wheels were well falling off at that point, and it is almost 100% the fault of the offense and special teams.
Excellent post. I'm highlighting these two paragraphs, but the entire post was spot on. There were a number of games last year, and the year before, where the Broncos defense clearly outplayed their opponent's offense, and played well enough to win the game, but the Broncos still lost. In a lot of games, I, and other folks around here, were actually keeping track of points attributed to the defense, and points attributed to offensive and special teams mistakes. In some games, more points were given up by the offense and special teams than what the defense gave up. It was insane.

I said it a number of times, if the offense was simply mediocre, or even a little below mediocre, they win a lot of those games because the defense was dominant. But the offense was embarrassingly bad, and then toss all of the special teams issues. The defense, evening dominating their opponent, couldn't overcome those issues.

If there was a stat on points given up when the opponent starts with the ball in their own territory (I'm sure there is), I bet the Broncos defense is highly ranked in that stat.
Jason in LA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 09:40 AM   #66
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 10,733
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in LA View Post
Excellent post. I'm highlighting these two paragraphs, but the entire post was spot on. There were a number of games last year, and the year before, where the Broncos defense clearly outplayed their opponent's offense, and played well enough to win the game, but the Broncos still lost. In a lot of games, I, and other folks around here, were actually keeping track of points attributed to the defense, and points attributed to offensive and special teams mistakes. In some games, more points were given up by the offense and special teams than what the defense gave up. It was insane.

I said it a number of times, if the offense was simply mediocre, or even a little below mediocre, they win a lot of those games because the defense was dominant. But the offense was embarrassingly bad, and then toss all of the special teams issues. The defense, evening dominating their opponent, couldn't overcome those issues.

If there was a stat on points given up when the opponent starts with the ball in their own territory (I'm sure there is), I bet the Broncos defense is highly ranked in that stat.
The Miami game is legit a tragic comedy. If the defense held Miami to zero points, Denver still loses 11-10. The Denver offense scored more points for Miami than for Denver. Hell Denver's Defense doubled the points that the offense scored 6-3.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 10:40 AM   #67
Kaylore
Three Lombardis
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
This one's for Pat

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 53,973

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
The Miami game is legit a tragic comedy. If the defense held Miami to zero points, Denver still loses 11-10. The Denver offense scored more points for Miami than for Denver. Hell Denver's Defense doubled the points that the offense scored 6-3.
I agree. It was almost like the Broncos were playing the Broncos and Miami was just there to kind of stand in.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 08:20 PM   #68
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 17,366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Elway ****ed up. Big time. That's why.
THIS. We are dealing with a rank amateur, clown coach. Woefully unprepared every time the team takes the field. It's really embarrassing.
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 09:13 PM   #69
Jason in LA
Gimmie that rep fool!
 
Jason in LA's Avatar
 
Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LA
Posts: 18,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I agree. It was almost like the Broncos were playing the Broncos and Miami was just there to kind of stand in.
The only entertaining part of that game was Mark Schlereth announcing the game. He was so funny.
Jason in LA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2018, 11:27 PM   #70
gunns
I WANT DEFENSE!
 
gunns's Avatar
 
Defense, defense, defense

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Always Hoping
Posts: 18,245

Adopt-a-Bronco:
John Mobley
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
Wade has said he only came back to Denver because of Kubiak, he wasn’t going to coach in Denver for anyone else. No Kubiak, no Wade. Kubiak doesn’t have an axe to grind with Wade, not sure why you think so. Just odd.

And yes money was a factor, not just for Wade but for the coaching staff overall. I believe we passed on Kyle Shanahan because of money and I’m not even sure Kyle saw eye to eye with Elway in the interviews. Then hiring Vance Joseph as HC was a bigger factor in Wade leaving, I don’t think Wade was going to be thrilled with the idea of Joseph superseding his authority on defense.
Because Elway offered him an extension or a raise, Wade chose the raise, and Elway hired VJ, who Kubiak wanted before Wade. As I said, there wasn't enough money for the guy that helped you get a SB? Elway gave all of the assistant coaches a raise. Elway played "the cheap", regardless of what Wade wanted. And I guess they should have found out how Wade and Joseph did together. Yes, I do still think Kubiak had Elway's ear and that's why VJ is now HC and Wade is gone.
gunns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 03:39 AM   #71
Broncoblood32
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Jupiter, Fla
Posts: 1,911

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rubin Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Generally speaking when a team leads the league most of the year in giveaways like we did, the defense looks worse than they really are. Also add the fact that the anemic offense keeps the defense playing uphill most games. I definitely think Wade is better than Woods, but I don't think it's fair to say it's a one to one comparison just looking at stats.

It's devastating to a defense force a punt and then on the punt they fumble it right back and all you did was gift them 30-40 yards. I will say that Ware helped, because our offense wasn't much better in 2015.
The offense in 2015 was ranked 16th in the league, and the offense in 2017 was ranked 17th.

The only MAJOR DISCREPANCY between those two teams was the lack of QB pressures/sacks generated which led to woeful lack of turnovers. Both of those were at the bottom of the league. Yet, the Rams (with Philips) rose significantly in 2017 in those categories.

Actually, the QB play with Manning was WORSE in 2015 than the QB play last year. Manning was the 33rd ranked passer. They led the league in 3 and outs, or they were close to the worst.

Philips did not have Ware or Miller with the Rams, yet they improved significantly.

That is the empirical evidence. We can ignore that, but for me Philips is the X factor, not Ware.
Broncoblood32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 05:30 AM   #72
Bigdawg26
Ring of Famer
 
Bigdawg26's Avatar
 
Just let it happen!!

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,698

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zealot View Post
No but I would have been fine with Wade as DC for life
I originally thought he was going to be our Dick Lebeau in Denver. Funny how Elway screwed Wade again.
Bigdawg26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 05:39 AM   #73
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 10,733
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncoblood32 View Post
The offense in 2015 was ranked 16th in the league, and the offense in 2017 was ranked 17th.

The only MAJOR DISCREPANCY between those two teams was the lack of QB pressures/sacks generated which led to woeful lack of turnovers. Both of those were at the bottom of the league. Yet, the Rams (with Philips) rose significantly in 2017 in those categories.

Actually, the QB play with Manning was WORSE in 2015 than the QB play last year. Manning was the 33rd ranked passer. They led the league in 3 and outs, or they were close to the worst.

Philips did not have Ware or Miller with the Rams, yet they improved significantly.

That is the empirical evidence. We can ignore that, but for me Philips is the X factor, not Ware.
Are you seriously comparing the offensive rankings between the 2 seasons, yet the actual statistics in the defenses?

The league rankings are meaningless. The offense scored an entire 4 points per game more in 2015. 4 points is the different between having the 15th ranked offense or the 30th ranked offense.

2015 QB's combined for more yardage, had a higher passing rating, a higher YPA, and took 21 fewer sacks than the 2017 QB's. 1 Fewer INT, but I think we know what would have happened with another 40 attempts to make those equal. The 2015 had a 47.7% redzone conversion rate, 2017 was 39.7%.

The 2015 Running backs more Rushing yards had 5 more rushing TD's and a better YPC.

The 2015 Offense had 23 interceptions and 16 Fumbles
The 2017 Offense had 22 Interceptions and 26 Fumbles

and the 2015 offense did it all with fewer plays.

Oh yeah, and he may have been busted, but it was ****ing Peyton Manning running the offense still with Kubiak. We swapped just those 2 out for Lynch and Mike McCoy.

Statistically 2015 was much much better, even if it was bad.

Now on the defensive side I'd like to point out another stat that may surprise people about 2017. I bet people don't realize that the 2017 defense had a better 3rd down stop % 31.6 to 35.7. (BTW the 2016 defense was the worst of the 3, and there was a sudden drop in defensive turnovers in 2016 as well).

Now to look at the Rams, which is a terrible comparison because we have no idea how Woods would have affected their D, but whatever, I enjoy this bull****.

So what is the thing that stands out most between 2016 and 2017 for the Rams.

Could it be that their offense scored 14 points per game in 2016, but then 29.9 in 2017? Could that have had a positive impact on a defense at all? Is it possible that a defense could get a few more pass rush opportunities when the opponent actually has to score to win? How would our D last have looked with 13 fewer turnovers and 18 more offensive TD's?

Look Wade is an awesome DC (Greg Williams isn't incompetent though), there is no denying that. The calling out of Woods is just silly at this point though. Not many DC's call a defense as good as ours was in 2017 in their first season and with an offense actively fighting against their cause all year.

No DC is immune to that, look at Wade's 2013 Defense. They didn't force TO's, and were victims of the offense putting them in bad spots all year. There was talent on that team too, they had the reigning DPOY healthy the whole season. The year before they were top 10 in every category.

I'm very curious to see what Woods does with any offensive support.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 08:59 AM   #74
24champ
Obi-Wan Phillips
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nakatomi Plaza
Posts: 23,441

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Brandstarter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunns View Post
Because Elway offered him an extension or a raise, Wade chose the raise,.
What’s wrong with that exactly?


Quote:
and Elway hired VJ, who Kubiak wanted before Wade.
Yeah and who did you want? Wade wasn’t even on your radar then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunns View Post
I definitely agree on Schwartz, especially now that Fangio is gone. I think DC is the most important piece to our puzzle. Enough with the old home week we've had.
In fact, nobody really had Wade at the top of their list.

Quote:
Elway gave all of the assistant coaches a raise. Elway played "the cheap", regardless of what Wade wanted. And I guess they should have found out how Wade and Joseph did together. Yes, I do still think Kubiak had Elway's ear and that's why VJ is now HC and Wade is gone.
They should not have hired VJ as HC (I understand the hire, Elway wanted a Mike Tomlin type given the locker room dynamics) to begin with but Wade was never going to not stick around if he wasn’t given full control of the defense.

This wasn’t a real housewives of Denver Broncos situation where Kubiak was scheming to get Wade out of town. As you know, Wade still speaks highly of Kubiak, Vance and Joe Woods. Just came down to an age/numbers deal and that the Wade protégés would be ready to step up.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:54 AM.


Denver Broncos