OT: Game of Thrones Major Spoiler Thread

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by ZONA

I've watched this series now 1.5 years and I give it a solid B. It just has too much of a "soap" feel to it for an A

A couple people have said that. What, exactly, makes it have a "soap" feel?

[McDman]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

(spoiler alert) read them up until the point where theon (spoiler spoiler quit reading if you are hungry for HBO to poop out another episode) offs Bran and Rickon....for no apparent reason. All the good people die. What's the point of watching? it's nearly as laughable as vampire or zombies movies.

If you are into incest, bastards, dwarves and direwolves this miniseries is right up your alley. It's obvious to me that HBO and Hollyweird in general are playing us like a bunch dummies who can't read. Seriously. Incest is the crux of the story line? Nice...... if only I had sisters.

Guess you quit reading, eh?

[DarkHorse30]

Originally Posted by McDman

Guess you quit reading, eh?

90% into Clash of Kings. SPOILER: ( I just figured, every hero is dying. If you're into that, fine. But I'm not. ) I think the guy is a good writer, he drew me right in SPOILER: ( with the Starks finding the direwolves. Cool. But it's just one stark dying off after another and then after nearly every Stark is killed off you think to yourself, ) "I've got 2 books left of this? Crikey"

[DarkHorse30]

Fedaykin - point taken.SPOILER: ( I'm not patient enough to assume that the kids were alive, especially after their dad bit it at the hands of Cersei's son (from her brother - really? is that a necessary plot line?) maybe I just needed to read longer but the cliffhanger getting you into the 3rd book? I read a lot but this series was too dark and too ugly to be watchable. Plus, you can't watch it with your kids either....what's the point? )

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

Fedaykin - point taken.SPOILER: ( I'm not patient enough to assume that the kids were alive, especially after their dad bit it at the hands of Cersei's son (from her brother - really? is that a necessary plot line?) maybe I just needed to read longer but the cliffhanger getting you into the 3rd book? I read a lot but this series was too dark and too ugly to be watchable. Plus, you can't watch it with your kids either....what's the point? )

You don't understand why the Cersei & Jaime incest plot is perhaps _the_ most pivotal event in the recent history of this universe? It has ramifications that haven't even been realized yet. Westeros is divided and war torn because of it while going into what promises to be a long (10+ years) winter, the white walkers are returning and Dany is coming back to reclaim her birthright.

It's absolutely a necessary plot line -- it's what sets everything in motion. Without that plot line, life just goes on in Westeros (awaiting the return of the white walkers and Danerys anyway). It completely alters the political, military and social order of the seven kingdoms.

If you don't like -- that's fine to each his own, but you seem to be deeply misunderstanding a lot about what's going on.

Also, a story isn't any good if you can't watch it with your kids? Are you really saying that?

[Taco John]

I love this saga. I'm 80% into Storm of Swords, and I'm gripped. There's just not enough hours in the day for me right now.

I'm going to be sad when I get to the end of the last book.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Don't worry. The quality will fall off greatly after SoS, so its not that bad.

I dunno. I thought a Dance With Dragons was stellar, but a Feast for Crows was a little slow due to all the new characters and settings. I've probably read Feast a solid five times now, it definitely grows on you at least. The series as a whole is still my favorite fantasy saga by a mile ahead of Sword of Truth and Symphany of Ages.


As for the HBO series, I think they're doing a good job on something I never thought could be brought to life. I disagree that the show is too dark as some other recent posters have opined. I think there are some great life lessons on treachery and overcoming obstacles. Above all else, I find the story one of overcoming adversity, and I fully expect the "good guys" to win in the end. I just like that figuring out whom the good guys are is difficult.

[Old Dude]

I think they are doing an amazing job with the TV adaptation.

Long before Martin wrote GoT, his bread and butter was TV screenplay. When that was over, he was sick and tired of writing within those restraints, so he threw all of them out in GoT which was never intended to make it to any sort of screen.

Ironically, here we are, and the writers and producers have to figure out some way to adapt an unadaptable story - - a huge cast, including many young children, incredibly complicated storylines, a deliberately uneven pace, dozens of unique locations that play a major role in the political and military landscape, major characters getting knocked off left and right, lots of gore, lots of FX, characters who have deliberately obscure motives, characters who pop up at one point in the story and then aren't seen or heard from again for thousands of pages and so forth.

They've had to somehow streamline this story far more than LotR and get the jist of someone's character across in just one or two scenes that otherwise evolved through multiple chapters in the books. At the same time, they have to add expositions to get across points only slowly implied by the books.

Then there's the cast. They can hardly hire an actor to play in one scene this season, and then sit on the sidelines for two years. (Looks like they've already had that problem with Gregor Clegane).

All things considered, I'm really impressed with the product. But remember, it's an adaptation, and, by definition, it's not going to be the same.

[DarkHorse30]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Also, a story isn't any good if you can't watch it with your kids? Are you really saying that?

Yes - murder and mayem is ok by me, but incest? And really all the sex scenes, it's like watching porn with your family. Seriously, think about it. Porn_with_with_your_family.....plus a little incest. Nice.

The book sounds a lot more interesting when you lay it out, but the falderal getting to the good parts is a buncha bunk.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

Yes - murder and mayem is ok by me, but incest? And really all the sex scenes, it's like watching porn with your family. Seriously, think about it. Porn_with_with_your_family.....plus a little incest. Nice.

The book sounds a lot more interesting when you lay it out, but the falderal getting to the good parts is a buncha bunk.

go **** yourself, you got nothing better to do than b**** about a TV show that you don't think is appropriate for your kids. don't ****ing watch it & you won't have nothing to b**** about. last I ****ing checked game of thrones was never meant to be a show for kids. JFC, your sensitive.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

I think they are doing an amazing job with the TV adaptation.

Long before Martin wrote GoT, his bread and butter was TV screenplay. When that was over, he was sick and tired of writing within those restraints, so he threw all of them out in GoT which was never intended to make it to any sort of screen.

Ironically, here we are, and the writers and producers have to figure out some way to adapt an unadaptable story - - a huge cast, including many young children, incredibly complicated storylines, a deliberately uneven pace, dozens of unique locations that play a major role in the political and military landscape, major characters getting knocked off left and right, lots of gore, lots of FX, characters who have deliberately obscure motives, characters who pop up at one point in the story and then aren't seen or heard from again for thousands of pages and so forth.

They've had to somehow streamline this story far more than LotR and get the jist of someone's character across in just one or two scenes that otherwise evolved through multiple chapters in the books. At the same time, they have to add expositions to get across points only slowly implied by the books.

Then there's the cast. They can hardly hire an actor to play in one scene this season, and then sit on the sidelines for two years. (Looks like they've already had that problem with Gregor Clegane).

All things considered, I'm really impressed with the product. But remember, it's an adaptation, and, by definition, it's not going to be the same.

Great post. Martin also uses the political intricacies and nuances of the medieval political landscape, particularly including the borderline incestuous aspect of the way royals used marriage to broker agreements and gain political power, as a source of inspiration in his works. This is why, as it was back then, the story isn't cut-and-dry or working in the framework of a typical narrative. You aren't going to get a normal hero-villain story arc. I think that is what makes so good; It's originality. However I do understand why that doesn't work for everyone.

[Kaylore]

And the idea that Bill Clinton is Robert Baratheon is offensive to both men. Clinton was a draft-dodger and Robert really only knew war. Clinton is politically brilliant with a reputation for balancing the budget. Robert was politically simple-minded and spent like a mad man. Honestly Robert is Closer to W. than to Clinton.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

Yes - murder and mayem is ok by me, but incest? And really all the sex scenes, it's like watching porn with your family. Seriously, think about it. Porn_with_with_your_family.....plus a little incest. Nice.

The book sounds a lot more interesting when you lay it out, but the falderal getting to the good parts is a buncha bunk.

, who said you should watch it with your kids? It's not a kids story....

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Fixed

Loved by the people, war hero, threw his meat in every woman, and assasinated

True.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

And the idea that Bill Clinton is Robert Baratheon is offensive to both men. Clinton was a draft-dodger and Robert really only knew war. Clinton is politically brilliant with a reputation for balancing the budget. Robert was politically simple-minded and spent like a mad man. Honestly Robert is Closer to W. than to Clinton.

Yes, but then the author of that chart couldn't have used the W/Hodor joke climax. Wife and I got a good chuckle out of that.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

I dont think its even remotely debatable that more happens in SoS than aFfC and aDwD combined.

Combine that with him having to scrap his original plans two times over (1: to have a multi-year delay in between SoS and aFfC and 2: having to split book 4 into 1.5 books) along with his noted regrets for leaving things hanging as he did at the end of aDwD (also has said in next book all three dangling plot lines will be resolved VERY quickly) and you have exactly what I said... a very good story line that's just not executed nearly as well as SoS was.

Yep, yep. Not debating which book has more events. Just stating that in my opinion the quality of the epic seemed par for the course between the first three and Dance. As stated, I really enjoyed Dance. And while I would agree Feast was a little lackluster compared to the first three books, I still found it to be solid. I don't expect TacoJohn will be too disappointed.

I was not aware he was unhappy with how he left Dance though. I thought the cliffhangers were excellent, even though I think we all know where the characters are headed. Did he clarify his regrets?

[DarkHorse30]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

, who said you should watch it with your kids? It's not a kids story....

I don't think it's acceptable watching with friends, either. Sex scenes with friends...

"oh yeah, there they are dog style....just like me and you do, Lizzy"

"well, there are wolves in this show, Jim"

"lovely form, and say he lasted quite a while there....but how DOES a dwarf do that without a prop, Amanda?"

"Great question; let's discuss it at dinner"

Seriously, it's vile. I don't want it on my TV. And if the kids DO walk in, (or watch it themselves...because that is what kids do) it's nearly unexplainable....especially the incest.

Sorry gang, I'm just calling it as I see it.....opposing opinions in a GOF thread, pray tell? Blasphemy!

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Great post. Martin also uses the political intricacies and nuances of the medieval political landscape, particularly including the borderline incestuous aspect of the way royals used marriage to broker agreements and gain political power, as a source of inspiration in his works. This is why, as it was back then, the story isn't cut-and-dry or working in the framework of a typical narrative. You aren't going to get a normal hero-villain story arc. I think that is what makes so good; It's originality. However I do understand why that doesn't work for everyone.

The POV nature of the books is what makes the entire thing a literary masterwork IMO. Everybody is a good guy and everybody is a bad guy depending on the perspective the story is being told from. The video adaptation cant capture that very well. We'll never get to see how Jamie Lannister views himself and the rationalizations behind his actions in the same way the book describes them in the "Jamie" POV chapters...

[Archer81]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

Yes - murder and mayem is ok by me, but incest? And really all the sex scenes, it's like watching porn with your family. Seriously, think about it. Porn_with_with_your_family.....plus a little incest. Nice.

The book sounds a lot more interesting when you lay it out, but the falderal getting to the good parts is a buncha bunk.

History must bother you then. Royals marry other royals. Often, they are damn near brother and sister. See Nicholas II of Russia or King Tut. Then in WWI you have the royal houses of Europe engaged in war against one another and nearly all of them were related to Queen Victoria of the UK.

The porn w/ family thing...knowing what type of series GoT is I'd be leery of letting anyone under 16 watching it. But even then the show is still not as sex filled as the books are.

[Old Dude]

I agree with TJ that it's hard to capture the same POV treatment in the series.

There are just some things that books do better. For example, remember all the poems and songs and lineages and legendary background tales that framed Tolkein's LotR. They barely scratched the surface of this stuff in over ten hours of the movie series.

Still, there's a lot that can be done on the screen to "color" someone's POV. A kindness here, a quip there, a quick exposition over there, etc. It will be interesting to see how they handle this.

[DarkHorse30]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

...and I find you thinking and consciously deciding to write out this portion of the post way more awkward than the potential scenarios you've provided.

It is uncomfortable scenes for public viewing. I really don't see how anybody could watch that stuff with friends or family. Just because HBO thinks its ok, doesn't make it ok with me. So Game of Thrones is ONLY OK in your own home, by yourself, without the kids watching.....it seems like......porn.

I don't like when comedy or drama turns blue. Really, it cheapens the humor and the drama. I would love to watch this drama because the story has a TON of twists and turns that Fedaykin pointed out (which I didn't have the patience to read through until it happened) BUT, when its smutty, it just cheapens the whole show. These actions can be hinted at without a full display of f'ing for you and yours, RIGHT ON YOUR TV......like.....you know

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

It is uncomfortable scenes for public viewing. I really don't see how anybody could watch that stuff with friends or family. Just because HBO thinks its ok, doesn't make it ok with me. So Game of Thrones is ONLY OK in your own home, by yourself, without the kids watching.....it seems like......porn.

I don't like when comedy or drama turns blue. Really, it cheapens the humor and the drama. I would love to watch this drama because the story has a TON of twists and turns that Fedaykin pointed out (which I didn't have the patience to read through until it happened) BUT, when its smutty, it just cheapens the whole show. These actions can be hinted at without a full display of f'ing for you and yours, RIGHT ON YOUR TV......like.....you know

the news must make you feel really uncomfortable too...or how about Seinfeld addressing masturbation?

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

It is uncomfortable scenes for public viewing. I really don't see how anybody could watch that stuff with friends or family. Just because HBO thinks its ok, doesn't make it ok with me. So Game of Thrones is ONLY OK in your own home, by yourself, without the kids watching.....it seems like......porn.

I don't like when comedy or drama turns blue. Really, it cheapens the humor and the drama. I would love to watch this drama because the story has a TON of twists and turns that Fedaykin pointed out (which I didn't have the patience to read through until it happened) BUT, when its smutty, it just cheapens the whole show. These actions can be hinted at without a full display of f'ing for you and yours, RIGHT ON YOUR TV......like.....you know

This man is correct.

Originally Posted by DarkHorse30

It is uncomfortable scenes for public viewing. I really don't see how anybody could watch that stuff with friends or family. Just because HBO thinks its ok, doesn't make it ok with me. So Game of Thrones is ONLY OK in your own home, by yourself, without the kids watching.....it seems like......porn.

I don't like when comedy or drama turns blue. Really, it cheapens the humor and the drama. I would love to watch this drama because the story has a TON of twists and turns that Fedaykin pointed out (which I didn't have the patience to read through until it happened) BUT, when its smutty, it just cheapens the whole show. These actions can be hinted at without a full display of f'ing for you and yours, RIGHT ON YOUR TV......like.....you know

It's not porn, it's just titillation. I'll agree that most of it doesn't really add anything to the story or really the overall quality of the show (though Emilia Clarke naked should be making anyone complain), but for you to dismiss it as vile either makes you naive or sheltered.

You've probably missed out on most of the best television of the last decade in this and several other shows by being so easily offended, so squeamish and so reactionary.

[Pendejo]

I stopped just shy of finishing the first book, haven't seen the television show and don't care to.

Saying that...if someone wants to edit out the nudie parts for Darkhorse30...I'll take them. I'll even discuss them.